The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2

[don4l]

Esseesse said:

Cameron/Osborne could help calm markets etc by apologising for the absolute bks they were coming out with during the campaigning.

Osborne could help to calm the markets by tendering his immediate resignation.

A couple of days ago he had a £32Bn shortfall. Now, apparently, everything is fine. Britain is an international joke with this man in a senior government position.

Diane Abbot would have more credibility as Chancellor.

[king arthur]

No I don't think that would calm the markets. I think he's done the right thing with his statement. If he makes it clear that he accepts the will of the British people, knuckles down and gets on with the job of sorting things out, he may go some way to regaining some sort of credibility.

[NRS]

don4l said:

Osborne could help to calm the markets by tendering his immediate resignation.

A couple of days ago he had a £32Bn shortfall. Now, apparently, everything is fine. Britain is an international joke with this man in a senior government position.

Diane Abbot would have more credibility as Chancellor.

I highly doubt that. Markets hate uncertainty, and if the chancellor resigned on top of everything else then it would likely spook the markets more. He may well have to go in the longer term, but I don't think it's right in the short term.

[minimoog]

Can someone help me square up the following:

There's been a lot of shoulders-back-chest-out exhortations that knuckling down, working hard, and deploying 'Brit grit' will see us all out of the woods and in clover in a few short years.

Yet the country is apparently flooded with foreigners 'taking all our jobs' because swathes of (non)working class British - many of whom voted Leave - are seemingly incapable of doing any of the above. After all if they were knuckling down and working hard, there'd be no jobs for foreigners to come and take, or at least no reason to employ a Pole or Romanian over a Brit.

So what makes you think anything is going to change now we're free of the shackles of our EU overlords?

[Burwood]

NRS said:

don4l said:

Osborne could help to calm the markets by tendering his immediate resignation.

A couple of days ago he had a £32Bn shortfall. Now, apparently, everything is fine. Britain is an international joke with this man in a senior government position.

Diane Abbot would have more credibility as Chancellor.

I highly doubt that. Markets hate uncertainty, and if the chancellor resigned on top of everything else then it would likely spook the markets more. He may well have to go in the longer term, but I don't think it's right in the short term.

Probably best not to have him resign, however since when have the markets taken any notice of a politician/BOE person. The volatility will play out over the next couple of weeks and in my opinion we will probably test 1.10 gbp/eur.

[Puggit]

Osborne is tied to the PM. The PM is going in 3 months, ergo Osborne goes in the inevitable set of new appointments in 3 months.

A week is a long time in politics. There will be conciliatory news from elected representatives in Europe. Juncker will carry on being nasty.

A new EU is being forged - even if Juncker doesn't realise it.

[Burwood]

minimoog said:

Can someone help me square up the following:

There's been a lot of shoulders-back-chest-out exhortations that knuckling down, working hard, and deploying 'Brit grit' will see us all out of the woods and in clover in a few short years.

Yet the country is apparently flooded with foreigners 'taking all our jobs' because swathes of (non)working class British - many of whom voted Leave - are seemingly incapable of doing any of the above. After all if they were knuckling down and working hard, there'd be no jobs for foreigners to come and take, or at least no reason to employ a Pole or Romanian over a Brit.

So what makes you think anything is going to change now we're free of the shackles of our EU overlords?

Based on past and even this post, no one is going to be able to help you 'square things up'. Your bias is clear for all to see. I'm here to comment on developments not whine over the past and point the finger. If you hadn't noticed, we voted, it's done. I'll do my bit. If the EU get difficult, no more German cars for me. As much as I like them.

[Burwood]

Puggit said:

Osborne is tied to the PM. The PM is going in 3 months, ergo Osborne goes in the inevitable set of new appointments in 3 months.

A week is a long time in politics. There will be conciliatory news from elected representatives in Europe. Juncker will carry on being nasty.

A new EU is being forged - even if Juncker doesn't realise it.

Germany, in my opinion will get their way. Merkel is no fool in this regard. Their prospects are inextricably tied to ours. Time will tell but it won't take long to get some flavour

[minimoog]

Burwood said:

Based on past and even this post, no one is going to be able to help you 'square things up'. Your bias is clear for all to see. I'm here to comment on developments not whine over the past and point the finger. If you hadn't noticed, we voted, it's done. I'll do my bit. If the EU get difficult, no more German cars for me. As much as I like them.

So you're here to crow but not discuss. Noted.

[Burwood]

minimoog said:

Burwood said:

Based on past and even this post, no one is going to be able to help you 'square things up'. Your bias is clear for all to see. I'm here to comment on developments not whine over the past and point the finger. If you hadn't noticed, we voted, it's done. I'll do my bit. If the EU get difficult, no more German cars for me. As much as I like them.

So you're here to crow but not discuss. Noted.

More waffle from you moog. Never crowed, not me. And i have no interest in discussing a hypothesis or theory that can't be quantified. Something of no relevance to this thread.

[Murph7355]

mattmurdock said:

Murph7355 said:

I really, really don't understand why he and Cameron took the position they did during campaigning.

Perhaps they took that position because the really believed it was the best thing for the country, regardless of any personal implications?

After all, many leavers are stating they voted on the thing they really believed was the best thing for the country, regardless of any personal implications - if we are to believe they have conviction, why not Cameron and Osbourne? Indeed, Cameron showed the depths of his conviction by resigning.

I'd be inclined to agree with that if Cameron hadn't started backing off some of the more vehement rhetoric in the few days before the vote (Britain will survive having all ready intimated it wouldn't etc) and looking at what is now happening.

A Chancellor talking down the country is never a good idea where the economy is concerned either.

I really cannot believe that he felt he received a good deal from the EU, and that the process of getting that deal was good for the UK. If he genuinely believed that then it's better he does go (and should evidently never have been there in the first place IMO). I suspect the likes of Juncker scared the life out of him.

[MikeT66]

This makes some good points, I think...

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only...

[don4l]

minimoog said:

Burwood said:

Based on past and even this post, no one is going to be able to help you 'square things up'. Your bias is clear for all to see. I'm here to comment on developments not whine over the past and point the finger. If you hadn't noticed, we voted, it's done. I'll do my bit. If the EU get difficult, no more German cars for me. As much as I like them.

So you're here to crow but not discuss. Noted.

The sooner that you accept your defeat, the sooner the pain will go away.

You still want to discuss the past, whereas the rest of us want to look forward.

For what it is worth, I am currently having the house redecorated by a Polish chap. I asked him for his opinion about the vote.

He told me that it didn't bother him in the least because British people were not willing to work for his rates. He knows that he is needed.

[turbobloke]

don4l said:

minimoog said:

Burwood said:

Based on past and even this post, no one is going to be able to help you 'square things up'. Your bias is clear for all to see. I'm here to comment on developments not whine over the past and point the finger. If you hadn't noticed, we voted, it's done. I'll do my bit. If the EU get difficult, no more German cars for me. As much as I like them.

So you're here to crow but not discuss. Noted.

The sooner that you accept your defeat, the sooner the pain will go away.

You still want to discuss the past, whereas the rest of us want to look forward.

For what it is worth, I am currently having the house redecorated by a Polish chap. I asked him for his opinion about the vote.

He told me that it didn't bother him in the least because British people were not willing to work for his rates. He knows that he is needed.

Good post.

[Zod]

turbobloke said:

don4l said:

minimoog said:

Burwood said:

Based on past and even this post, no one is going to be able to help you 'square things up'. Your bias is clear for all to see. I'm here to comment on developments not whine over the past and point the finger. If you hadn't noticed, we voted, it's done. I'll do my bit. If the EU get difficult, no more German cars for me. As much as I like them.

So you're here to crow but not discuss. Noted.

The sooner that you accept your defeat, the sooner the pain will go away.

You still want to discuss the past, whereas the rest of us want to look forward.

For what it is worth, I am currently having the house redecorated by a Polish chap. I asked him for his opinion about the vote.

He told me that it didn't bother him in the least because British people were not willing to work for his rates. He knows that he is needed.

Good post.

that shows how out of touch you two are with many of your fellow Leave voters. They want cuts to immigration to avoid just the situation than don's decorator is taking advantage of: Eastern European workers willing to work for less than British ones.

Edited by Zod on Monday 27th June 11:22

[minimoog]

turbobloke said:

don4l said:

minimoog said:

Burwood said:

Based on past and even this post, no one is going to be able to help you 'square things up'. Your bias is clear for all to see. I'm here to comment on developments not whine over the past and point the finger. If you hadn't noticed, we voted, it's done. I'll do my bit. If the EU get difficult, no more German cars for me. As much as I like them.

So you're here to crow but not discuss. Noted.

The sooner that you accept your defeat, the sooner the pain will go away.

You still want to discuss the past, whereas the rest of us want to look forward.

For what it is worth, I am currently having the house redecorated by a Polish chap. I asked him for his opinion about the vote.

He told me that it didn't bother him in the least because British people were not willing to work for his rates. He knows that he is needed.

Good post.

It's not a good post. You've all missed the point completely. I'm talking about the future. Don4l's last two lines illustrate exactly what I'm talking about. People want rid of these Polish chaps, over here taking our jobs. Immigration immigration immigration! But these immigrants have filled a vacuum left by an unwillingness of British people to work. Yet you are all saying that Brits working hard will pull us through.

There's a disconnect there. I'm just asking how you propose we get around that.

[NRS]

minimoog said:

Can someone help me square up the following:

There's been a lot of shoulders-back-chest-out exhortations that knuckling down, working hard, and deploying 'Brit grit' will see us all out of the woods and in clover in a few short years.

Yet the country is apparently flooded with foreigners 'taking all our jobs' because swathes of (non)working class British - many of whom voted Leave - are seemingly incapable of doing any of the above. After all if they were knuckling down and working hard, there'd be no jobs for foreigners to come and take, or at least no reason to employ a Pole or Romanian over a Brit.

So what makes you think anything is going to change now we're free of the shackles of our EU overlords?

It won't really all square up, since there is a lot of contrasting reasons for voting, not all of which make sense/ match up. However my take on it is this.

Some people voted because they are racists, as simple as that. Jobs etc. don't matter as much as the dislike of foreigners.

However some others have problems with foreigners, not because of their race, but that they are willing to work for mucher lower salaries. This then lowers the salaries for jobs that don't need much education, and so affects the living standard of a lot of the less wealthy in society. This is particularly bad these days since a lot of jobs are also being replaced by robots and computers. So less jobs but but more competition who is willing to work for lower rates = a problem for the poorer in society. Thus they don't want the immigration that is allowed in the EU, not because of racism, but because of the impact on their life and living standard. In theory by removing cheaper "foreign" labour then things will become more expensive, but poorer people will have a better standard of living due to better salary. The reality is a lot more people fall into this camp than the pure racist camp depsite all the headlines that anyone earning under £1 million is a benefit thief who sits at home smoking, eating and playing the lotto all day. However because of the subtly there has not been much coverage or recognition of this group. It's tended to be either "racist" or "accepting person who loves Europe".

It also explains why you have the more far left and right effectively being leave people, whereas the more rich middle class centre ground is operated by the remain side. As someone who was relatively neautral it has annoyed me that a lot of university educated friends (I am myself, so no problems with it) have been pretty elitist and saying there should be IQ tests etc. to have been allowed to vote. The reality is a large part of the population are very much affected by competition for lower paid jobs, and so their voice should count for just as much as someone earning far more through a highly educated job.

[Burwood]

minimoog said:

turbobloke said:

don4l said:

minimoog said:

Burwood said:

Based on past and even this post, no one is going to be able to help you 'square things up'. Your bias is clear for all to see. I'm here to comment on developments not whine over the past and point the finger. If you hadn't noticed, we voted, it's done. I'll do my bit. If the EU get difficult, no more German cars for me. As much as I like them.

So you're here to crow but not discuss. Noted.

The sooner that you accept your defeat, the sooner the pain will go away.

You still want to discuss the past, whereas the rest of us want to look forward.

For what it is worth, I am currently having the house redecorated by a Polish chap. I asked him for his opinion about the vote.

He told me that it didn't bother him in the least because British people were not willing to work for his rates. He knows that he is needed.

Good post.

It's not a good post. You've all missed the point completely. I'm talking about the future. Don4l's last two lines illustrate exactly what I'm talking about. People want rid of these Polish chaps. Immigration immigration immigration! But these immigrants have filled a vacuum left by an unwillingness of British people to work. Yet you are all saying that Brits working hard will pull us through.

There's a disconnect there. I'm just asking how you propose we get around that.

You've made a blanket statement about getting rid of Pols - i don't, i employ some. They are hard working and speak good english. I know that make sound strange coming from a xenophobic Leaver.

I'll add, the ones i want out are the bone idle and criminal variety but i realise thats small beer, which is why my vote was for other reasons. Anyone who comes in should pass checks and be here by our grace, not some right. You start being a criminal, out you go.

[minimoog]

MikeT66 said:

This makes some good points, I think...

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only...

Excellent.

[AJS-]

///ajd said:

losing 1000's of jobs the day after brexit is fantastic?

using the traitor word again? after all that happened the week before? really?

Which 1000s of jobs?

The only people I know of who have so far lost their jobs due to the vote are David Cameron, Lord Hill and the shadow Cabinet. My heart bleeds.