The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2
Discussion
minimoog said:
So you disagree with the view that in registering what is in effect an anti-Tory protest vote, the 'poor' (for want of a better word) have been unable to grasp the significance of what they are doing? Because the alternative seem to be that they have willingly voted in BoJo and Gove. And that seems a tad far-fetched does it not?
(Usual caveat on generalising applies, naturally.)
Yes I disagree with that. It's pure conjecture and rather patronising conjecture at that. Rich, poor, old, young, educated, uneducated and everyone else voted how they did for their own reasons.(Usual caveat on generalising applies, naturally.)
There's a lot more to it than liking Gove and BoJo more than Cameron and Osborne.
You could also go down that road in the other direction and say that the guilt trip about Jo Cox or the elaborate scaremongering gave Remain more votes than it might have done.
The votes are counted and it won't change.
Sam All said:
In the Commons, CMD could try to be more positive about the referendum verdict.
Agreed. He is PM not Mr Cameron in the Commons.Sam All said:
Boris/Gove have taken a day off. Pathetic.
Gove was somewhere near the Speaker's chair not on the front bench but it looks like Boris was awol.Don't know if this has been posted but Adam Smith with a EEA/EfTA pathway, a Flexcit derivative is how Dr North calls it.
Interestingly Ken Clarke also called for this route today in the Commons.... its on the table and running by the sound of things:
http://www.adamsmith.org/evolution-not-revolution
Interestingly Ken Clarke also called for this route today in the Commons.... its on the table and running by the sound of things:
http://www.adamsmith.org/evolution-not-revolution
turbobloke said:
Sam All said:
In the Commons, CMD could try to be more positive about the referendum verdict.
Agreed. He is PM not Mr Cameron in the Commons.Sam All said:
Boris/Gove have taken a day off. Pathetic.
Gove was somewhere near the Speaker's chair not on the front bench but it looks like Boris was awol.The Brexit leaders have been very very quiet since the result. Why?
lostkiwi said:
turbobloke said:
Sam All said:
In the Commons, CMD could try to be more positive about the referendum verdict.
Agreed. He is PM not Mr Cameron in the Commons.Sam All said:
Boris/Gove have taken a day off. Pathetic.
Gove was somewhere near the Speaker's chair not on the front bench but it looks like Boris was awol.The Brexit leaders have been very very quiet since the result. Why?
steveatesh said:
Don't know if this has been posted but Adam Smith with a EEA/EfTA pathway, a Flexcit derivative is how Dr North calls it.
Interestingly Ken Clarke also called for this route today in the Commons.... its on the table and running by the sound of things:
http://www.adamsmith.org/evolution-not-revolution
North observes that the first of the Flexcit recommendations has already been put adopted. Working hard to update a new version.Interestingly Ken Clarke also called for this route today in the Commons.... its on the table and running by the sound of things:
http://www.adamsmith.org/evolution-not-revolution
We're all leavers now
steveatesh said:
Don't know if this has been posted but Adam Smith with a EEA/EfTA pathway, a Flexcit derivative is how Dr North calls it.
Interestingly Ken Clarke also called for this route today in the Commons.... its on the table and running by the sound of things:
http://www.adamsmith.org/evolution-not-revolution
As a remain voter I would be perfectly happy with that. It is however not what the majority of punters voted for. Any government going down that route will be committing political suicide and will be demonstrating that democracy in the UK is truly a complete sham.Interestingly Ken Clarke also called for this route today in the Commons.... its on the table and running by the sound of things:
http://www.adamsmith.org/evolution-not-revolution
Crafty_ said:
The problem with the above is, as I understand it we can't guarantee membership of the EEA until Article 50 is actioned, at which point we may not be allowed to join the EEA. Then what?
We could join EFTA.Unless Iceland remember that we used anti-terrorism legislation to seize their assets during the financial crisis and veto our application...
plasticpig said:
As a remain voter I would be perfectly happy with that. It is however not what the majority of punters voted for. Any government going down that route will be committing political suicide and will be demonstrating that democracy in the UK is truly a complete sham.
Who knows what the majority wants, apart from "out". I agree though, there are going to be a great many disappointed leavers.plasticpig said:
steveatesh said:
Don't know if this has been posted but Adam Smith with a EEA/EfTA pathway, a Flexcit derivative is how Dr North calls it.
Interestingly Ken Clarke also called for this route today in the Commons.... its on the table and running by the sound of things:
http://www.adamsmith.org/evolution-not-revolution
As a remain voter I would be perfectly happy with that. It is however not what the majority of punters voted for. Any government going down that route will be committing political suicide and will be demonstrating that democracy in the UK is truly a complete sham.Interestingly Ken Clarke also called for this route today in the Commons.... its on the table and running by the sound of things:
http://www.adamsmith.org/evolution-not-revolution
HappyMidget said:
Crafty_ said:
The problem with the above is, as I understand it we can't guarantee membership of the EEA until Article 50 is actioned, at which point we may not be allowed to join the EEA. Then what?
We are already part of the EEA, so no hurdles there, so to speak...Zod said:
don't agree. The majority of Leave voters (not all here, please note, before you get upset) voted for £350m per week for the NHS and restrictions on immigration, both of which have now been discounted by various Leave campaigners. For such voters, the niceties of being in or out of the EEA or EFTA or relying on WTO rules are not a concern.
Not trueBill said:
plasticpig said:
As a remain voter I would be perfectly happy with that. It is however not what the majority of punters voted for. Any government going down that route will be committing political suicide and will be demonstrating that democracy in the UK is truly a complete sham.
Who knows what the majority wants, apart from "out". I agree though, there are going to be a great many disappointed leavers.Burwood said:
The money doesn't bother me. Full trade benefits, no political interference and some controls over immigration such as the emergency brake is ok by me.
They will look after the economics first and foremost and Dr Norths roadmap has always been there to do that. As far as I can see the vote was to leave the EU. How the government do that is up to them.
In my opinion having access to the single market with other advantages to go with that route will appeal to the majority of voters whichever side they voted.
Certainly appeals to me!
plasticpig said:
steveatesh said:
Don't know if this has been posted but Adam Smith with a EEA/EfTA pathway, a Flexcit derivative is how Dr North calls it.
Interestingly Ken Clarke also called for this route today in the Commons.... its on the table and running by the sound of things:
http://www.adamsmith.org/evolution-not-revolution
As a remain voter I would be perfectly happy with that. It is however not what the majority of punters voted for. Any government going down that route will be committing political suicide and will be demonstrating that democracy in the UK is truly a complete sham.Interestingly Ken Clarke also called for this route today in the Commons.... its on the table and running by the sound of things:
http://www.adamsmith.org/evolution-not-revolution
Some highlights
Roland Smith said:
So that’s a full 57% of Britons who believe the Government should consider the EEA/Norway option in the event of a Leave vote, compared to 24% who said that such an arrangement should not be on the table. The numbers hardly change for using the EEA/Norway position as an interim solution.
That’s more than 2:1 in favour. Astonishing.
But the poll also found that after stripping out the Don’t Knows, almost half of Leavers believed that an EEA position like Norway should be considered in the event of a Leave vote, with slightly more than half who said it should not. With the Don’t Knows separated out, it’s 42% and 45% respectively. Even a quarter of UKIP supporters agreed with the proposition, while only 33% were “strongly opposed”.
So there’s very little ‘betrayal’ here.....
and
On Twitter I am mostly followed by Leavers, but what is odd is that it’s the Remainers who mainly stress about ‘betrayal’ and attempt to speak on behalf of Leavers. By contrast, the Leavers are relatively quiet. Quite a few tacitly support the option.
Secondly, let's just imagine that Remain won. Just for a moment, based on a composite vote from:-That’s more than 2:1 in favour. Astonishing.
But the poll also found that after stripping out the Don’t Knows, almost half of Leavers believed that an EEA position like Norway should be considered in the event of a Leave vote, with slightly more than half who said it should not. With the Don’t Knows separated out, it’s 42% and 45% respectively. Even a quarter of UKIP supporters agreed with the proposition, while only 33% were “strongly opposed”.
So there’s very little ‘betrayal’ here.....
and
On Twitter I am mostly followed by Leavers, but what is odd is that it’s the Remainers who mainly stress about ‘betrayal’ and attempt to speak on behalf of Leavers. By contrast, the Leavers are relatively quiet. Quite a few tacitly support the option.
Full on political and fiscal union, join the Eurozone, yahoo!
Or as above but not sure about Euro
Or maybe ever closer union but a lot lot slower.
Or OK as is now but no further, no sirree!
Or Well it's got problems, needs some reform, but on balance.
Or It needs a lot of reforms, better to do that from within.
Or It's a complete crap fest, but can't possibly vote Leave because I want cheap mobile roaming to check Facebook in Ibiza, through Farage is for Leave so that decides it, through the Government says we will get World War 3 , boils and locusts, somebody said that down the student union, though was a bit pissed at the time.
So Remain have won, how are you going to rationalise that little lot, when the EU turns round and carried on, carrying on. Presumably that wouldn't be a political sham because you got the result you wanted, or probably looking at that little lot, maybe didn't.
Yes it's a blatant strawman argument, I don't apologise for that, but it's useful to show the ridiculous nature of the Remainder argument that it's not what many voted for.
The study shows that a sensible exit plan can bring a majority of the country together if people are prepared to be adults, accept the result and move on.
sidicks said:
Zod said:
don't agree. The majority of Leave voters (not all here, please note, before you get upset) voted for £350m per week for the NHS and restrictions on immigration, both of which have now been discounted by various Leave campaigners. For such voters, the niceties of being in or out of the EEA or EFTA or relying on WTO rules are not a concern.
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