The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2

[Mr Whippy]

paulrockliffe said:

Surely a pragmatic approach

A pragmatic approach from the EU isn't even likely, sadly.

They prefer their ostentatiously pointlessly expensive solutions to simple problems.

[alfie2244]

Sam All said:

Puggit said:

While we're talking about the French - let's not forget that they won't allow Strasbourg to be shut down. The ridiculous notion that for 4 days every month the EU, and all it's snouts in all the troughs, must move to another country.

Utterly crazy, and a sympton of how the EU is wasting money and cannot be reformed.

Everyone in charge at the EU knows that is daft, and yet carry on.

That is the EU.

I could be wrong but think this may require treaty change to stop.

[TEKNOPUG]

alfie2244 said:

Sam All said:

Puggit said:

While we're talking about the French - let's not forget that they won't allow Strasbourg to be shut down. The ridiculous notion that for 4 days every month the EU, and all it's snouts in all the troughs, must move to another country.

Utterly crazy, and a sympton of how the EU is wasting money and cannot be reformed.

Everyone in charge at the EU knows that is daft, and yet carry on.

That is the EU.

I could be wrong but think this may require treaty change to stop.

Which the French can veto. Democracy in action

[anonymous-user]

Hosenbugler said:

I'm of a similar frame of mind. I'm also deeply suspicious of the DT poll that suggested that the "leavers" of the elder generation are turning away from the leave vote. Polls can be easily skewed to get a result the pollster wants (yes I do have experience) and I would not be surprised if thats what has been done in that case.

That perception is reinforced by what I hear from people . Virtually everyone I have talked to wants out. My daughter and son in law take little or no interest in politics, yet they cannot wait to vote out, and frequently mention the matter. Son in law travels widely in the UK in doing the specialist job he has, and mentions that he sees large numbers of leave posters/signs and very few remain.

About the only claim I have not heard from Remainians is that the Moon may spin out of orbit and the seas dry up if we vote for Brexit , still, give them time I think, near another month to go!

I'm one of the leavers of the elder generation. I was talking to a few mates recently and they are all committed leavers, never had another thought.

What was interesting to me was that they all, without exception, strongly resent what Cameron and Osborne have been up to recently with a blatant propaganda campaign. They are, or were, all staunch Tory voters but would find it difficult to vote that way in the future, particularly if the vote is to stay and Cameron and Osborne manage to hold on to their jobs.

The view seems to be that there would be nothing to lose if we stay in the EU so they'll vote UKIP, or not bother at all, even if that risked the economic chaos of a labour government.

I hadn't thought that far ahead but it's made me think. I realise that this is a small group but it will be interesting to see the domestic political fallout whichever way this goes.

[TEKNOPUG]

Mr Whippy said:

It's funny how the remain side is using negatives to want people to stay in, rather than positives. What the EU can offer us is ignored. Is that a sign it has no positives?

I've asked that same question for many weeks, still no answer as to anything tangible that is only exclusively available via EU Membership.

[fido]

REALIST123 said:

The view seems to be that there would be nothing to lose if we stay in the EU so they'll vote UKIP, or not bother at all, even if that risked the economic chaos of a labour government.

I hadn't thought that far ahead but it's made me think. I realise that this is a small group but it will be interesting to see the domestic political fallout whichever way this goes.

I am sort of middle-of the-road (albeit in a Daily Mail way) but was thinking along the same lines. If the result is Remain I will not be voting Conservative again which only leaves me with UKIP. I don't want to be part of a further-integrated EU (otherwise I would have moved to the States years ago). Besides voting UKIP isn't like voting for that right-wing Austrian bloke - it's more like the Angry Bloke in the original Harry Enfield sketches.

Edited by fido on Wednesday 25th May 10:45

[Laurel Green]

REALIST123 said:

I'm one of the leavers of the elder generation. I was talking to a few mates recently and they are all committed leavers, never had another thought.

What was interesting to me was that they all, without exception, strongly resent what Cameron and Osborne have been up to recently with a blatant propaganda campaign. They are, or were, all staunch Tory voters but would find it difficult to vote that way in the future, particularly if the vote is to stay and Cameron and Osborne manage to hold on to their jobs.

The view seems to be that there would be nothing to lose if we stay in the EU so they'll vote UKIP, or not bother at all, even if that risked the economic chaos of a labour government.

I hadn't thought that far ahead but it's made me think. I realise that this is a small group but it will be interesting to see the domestic political fallout whichever way this goes.

That's me down to a T too.

[///ajd]

Good news!!!

I've found another professor who appears to know about economics and stuff and is talking about brexit

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RHFp3-qE_T8

Certainly adds some useful thoughts on trade deals and reality.

Edited by ///ajd on Wednesday 25th May 13:26

[Mr Whippy]

///ajd said:

Good news!!!

I've found another professor who appears to know about economics and stuff and is talking about

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RHFp3-qE_T8

Certainly adds some useful thoughts on trade deals and reality.

Erm, so surely for biotech and education, our own market is pretty big to sell into?

And if we're not doing trade deals with other countries (buying in their biotech and education), then surely our biotech and education businesses have a big captive domestic market?

[confused_buyer]

REALIST123 said:

What was interesting to me was that they all, without exception, strongly resent what Cameron and Osborne have been up to recently with a blatant propaganda campaign. They are, or were, all staunch Tory voters but would find it difficult to vote that way in the future, particularly if the vote is to stay and Cameron and Osborne manage to hold on to their jobs.

The Remain side were always going to put up a strong propaganda campaign - that is what elections are all about. However, you can't blame them for the fact that the Leave campaign is completely hopeless and seems to have no central strategy, ideas or campaign message. It just seems to be a mishmash of different people, ideas and egos.

It is amazing that people who have been campaigning to leave the EU for years when, suddenly, presented with an opportunity to do so seemingly can't still believe it and have looked like rabbits in the headlamps.

I'd also add that if you are anti-EU voting UKIP if you have an anti-Europe Tory MP is a bit silly as it will probably just replace an anti-EU MP with a pro one from another party.

[wiggy001]

///ajd said:

Good news!!!

I've found another professor who appears to know about economics and stuff and is talking about

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RHFp3-qE_T8

Certainly adds some useful thoughts on trade deals and reality.

So a country with a big economy like China (2nd biggest economy in the world) can dictate beneficial terms for itself over a smaller country economically such as Switzerland (19th biggest economy in the world).

On that basis does it not therefore make sense that a country with a big economy like the UK (5th biggest economy in the world) could negotiate trade deals beneficial to us with every country in the world that has a smaller economy than us?

[The Hypno-Toad]

grumbledoak said:

Some news on Christine "Embezzlement and Fraud" Lagarde that I hadn't seen:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/head-of-the-i...

Isn't she all for us Remaining? I shall in future file her advice appropriately.


Any others I should know of?

Here's interesting.

1.) Copy and paste the headline from that article.
2.) Google it.
3.) Check out the results.

Apart from the original article, all the links on the front page only go to looney tune message boards and websites (unsurprisingly Ickes is the first.).

In other news (probably not linked at all), Google had their Paris offices raided yesterday as part of an ongoing inquiry into tax evasion....

[confused_buyer]

I haven't heard anything about Lagarde and what is talked about in that article but she is definitely facing a court case:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35121022

Just not for fraud or embezzlement as far as I can tell.

[jjlynn27]

Mr_B said:

Your obsession with the German migrant thread didn't last long when people started pointing out what a desperate sounding dope you were. The question related when a few thousand started coming and were warmly greeted. When Merekel started suggesting it would start to then number millions, I said I doubt that sympathy would be universal in Germany. You rather bizarrely started suggestion it would be because all of four people on PH told you and declared it settled. I think we can safely say when it did start reaching millions and events like mass sexual assaults started happening, the mode wasn't that the vast majority where in favour.
The best bit was when one of the people you relied on in Germany posted the polling saying so and that his village which I think numbered a few thousand was now being designated to take something like three times that in migrants. As I recall you took a break from posting to that thread just after. It served its purpose though, like about 4 other regulars on here, you stood out as posting utter drivel and marked your own card.

You doubt Cameron cares either way on Turkey ? Odd that he gave various speeches on how important it is they join the EU as recently as a few weeks ago. He said he was "angry" their membership was going so slowly and how "passionate" he was this should not be the case and that they had no bigger fan than he on achieving this. Maybe in your make believe world you can claim he doesn't give a fig either way. Here's an idea , why don't you do as before and declare this something you decree 'settled' ?

Lets see what happens this summer and what will probably be another migrant crisis. Do you have any views on the actual subjects at hand, or will you be going back to your FaceBook level debating by getting angry and start talking about Ukip, Farage and 1 MP ? I only because I didn't see what relevance it had to you, me or the the actual part of the debate.
So lets see what deal the EU will do with the corrupt and human rights abusing Turkish leadership and how much money a net EU contributor country like the EU will be handing over. Who would have thought their main demand would be holiday rights for Turks. Maybe they aren't so bad after all.

You make up things that are not there. Nobody but you could read that there is 'unanimous' support for anything. Unless you think that PEGIDA would welcome refugees migrants (for the record I don't think that PEGIDA, or other far-right nutjobs would welcome them, I do think that refugees are less welcome now than they were, there is still, as there never was 'unanimous' support or lack of it, when we talk about Germany (or EU) as a whole). I tried to explain that to you over four pages. Pathological liars, like yourself, just can't help themselves.

Stop trying to change subject to make yourself look less of a liar. Why would I get angry that work-shy clown and co were obliterated at GE? Another bizarre claim.

Now, what happened to the edited post claim? You know the one that presumably shows how 'honest' I am? Luckily there are timestamps on edits as well as on the new posts that can't be faked, which show, beyond doubt, that, once again, you are a liar. You lied before, you lie now and in all likelihood, you'll lie again.

You can try to apologize or you can just come with more bizarre claims. Either way, it'll be entertaining.

[Murph7355]

FiF said:

I'd like to hear the details of how he thinks something like this would work, in practice. Considering that the most likely post Brexit scenario we would be completely out from CAP, yet still supporting equivalent payments to farmers and regional development funds from UK government in order to keep stability in the industry.

Having thrown his assertion out there it needs backing up with some detail around the proposition, otherwise it is a worthless gambit.

Of course there will be some horse trading in the two year Article 50 negotiations, but as written before, both parties, EU and UK, will both be keen to minimise risks, neither side will want a drama. There may be some theatrical arm waving, but deep down no real drama desired.

No one knows how it would work as it's all very hypothetical, but here's where I think his line of thought was (and it's not unreasonable in generic terms) :

UK: we'd like free trade in the auto sector, no tariffs. How about it?
EU: Germany are very receptive but to get this through France want you to keep contributing to the CAP.

Assuming they then dug their heels in, we would need to decide if a free trade deal on cars with the EU was worth the CAP payments. If we didn't then we have no free trade on cars. If we did, we'd probably need to tell farmers they'll still be getting their subsidies through CAP.

Etc.

The big point for me here and with this whole vote - it's then our choice that we make with our interests at the fore.

[Zod]

dandarez said:

Zod said:

dandarez said:

Just watching 'Last Whites of the East End' on the Beeb (1).

One just said 'I think this area has been ethnically cleansed'!

Another said 'We've always had immigrants here, but this is on a scale unprecendented.'

Brexit are tonight changing tact to talk full on about immigration.

Something's changing.

Relevance to the EU? Think carefully, Dan.

Oops, thanks almighty one ...a few too many Hobgoblins!
(Wychwood Brewery ones, not the vex creatures)

I'd had a bottle of Gigondas.

[CaptainSlow]

Murph7355 said:

UK: we'd like free trade in the auto sector, no tariffs. How about it?
EU: Germany are very receptive but to get this through France want you to keep contributing to the CAP.

More like:
UK: we'd like free trade in the auto sector, no tariffs. How about it?
EU: Germany are very receptive but to get this through France want you to keep contributing to the CAP.
UK: We're not contributing the CAP as we are no longer part of the EU, please tell Germany to stop car shipments to the UK.
Germany: France, you're losing us money. The CAP budget is now smaller, get used to it.

[jjlynn27]

Zod said:

dandarez said:

Zod said:

dandarez said:

Just watching 'Last Whites of the East End' on the Beeb (1).

One just said 'I think this area has been ethnically cleansed'!

Another said 'We've always had immigrants here, but this is on a scale unprecendented.'

Brexit are tonight changing tact to talk full on about immigration.

Something's changing.

Relevance to the EU? Think carefully, Dan.

Oops, thanks almighty one ...a few too many Hobgoblins!
(Wychwood Brewery ones, not the vex creatures)

I'd had a bottle of Gigondas.

While it might not had direct relevance to EU, I did watch the programme, and, IMO, it was rather good, getting people to talk about their real fears, just ordinary people and their stories. They didn't look to find nutjobs in order to convey the message.

Well worth the time spent watching. Highly recommended. Thanks for the heads-up.

[TEKNOPUG]

wiggy001 said:

///ajd said:

Good news!!!

I've found another professor who appears to know about economics and stuff and is talking about

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RHFp3-qE_T8

Certainly adds some useful thoughts on trade deals and reality.

So a country with a big economy like China (2nd biggest economy in the world) can dictate beneficial terms for itself over a smaller country economically such as Switzerland (19th biggest economy in the world).

On that basis does it not therefore make sense that a country with a big economy like the UK (5th biggest economy in the world) could negotiate trade deals beneficial to us with every country in the world that has a smaller economy than us?

I note that Oxford University received £62m in EU Research Funding in 2014.

[John145]

TEKNOPUG said:

wiggy001 said:

///ajd said:

Good news!!!

I've found another professor who appears to know about economics and stuff and is talking about

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RHFp3-qE_T8

Certainly adds some useful thoughts on trade deals and reality.

So a country with a big economy like China (2nd biggest economy in the world) can dictate beneficial terms for itself over a smaller country economically such as Switzerland (19th biggest economy in the world).

On that basis does it not therefore make sense that a country with a big economy like the UK (5th biggest economy in the world) could negotiate trade deals beneficial to us with every country in the world that has a smaller economy than us?

I note that Oxford University received £62m in EU Research Funding in 2014.

Is this in addition to the rebate we receive or just part of the rebate package?

I don't understand this mentality of x y and z have received money from the EU, surely if we left the pot they could access would be bigger as we're net contributors to the EU.