The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2
Discussion
Hosenbugler said:
deadslow said:
Esseesse said:
more PC to be a left wing luvvie than a conservative.
what on earth do you mean? Political Correctness has nothing to do with political party, but rather with respect for others.
ATG said:
hidetheelephants said:
Blunkett on the Today programme mithering about how it will be the end of the world if France sticks out its bottom lip and says we can't have customs checks on their side of the ditch any more; the pragmatic solution of checking them on the ferry is apparently lost on this simpleton.
On the ferry is pragmatic? And you're calling him a simpleton???Esseesse said:
Reading a bit about pollster predictions. They blame their lack of predicting the last Tory GE win on 'shy Tories'. Apparently they were meant to have learned this lesson in 1992, but had forgotten it.
Polling companies often talk about shy Tories being a key issue why they got the 1992 election prediction so wrong. The documentary I watched a few years ago analysed this claim and found the main cause was in fact more mundane. The polling companies were using incorrect census data which misrepresented the size of the various demographic groups. When the raw polling results were adjusted to take account of the national weighting of each group, the error in their census data caused on over-weighting on people inclined to vote Labour. Hence why their predictions were so wrong vs the actual result.
deadslow said:
Hosenbugler said:
deadslow said:
Esseesse said:
more PC to be a left wing luvvie than a conservative.
what on earth do you mean? Political Correctness has nothing to do with political party, but rather with respect for others.
Mr_B said:
Oh dear, you didn't take a slow clam read , did you ? The bit about the difference between me asking if something is correct that your declared "settled" got you all angry when people don't listen to you trying to shut it down, you didn't take it in and understand it, did you ?
In both cases and fair minded PH reader would see me ask for evidence and accepting I could be wrong but having a say on what I feel is correct.
It was you with your high standard of evidence of being told something by 4 people on PH that was slightly related, and then holding it up as evidence and declaring it "settled".
It really does go to the heart of the matter with your pro EU gibberish that you have a desperation to want to just declare something "settled" and then beyond argument. There's a real arrogance to that, but then, it doesn't seem to bother you you aren't open to listening to anyone else, so sure of yourself that its you who is right and anyone disagreeing is thick. How very EU in a way.
Your post at 11.27 yesterday contained nothing about the subject matter of Mordaunt or Cameron on the EU , it was a rambling defence of yourself and your deluded comments and claim that a majority in Germany at the time were pro millions of refugees when those you were actually reliant on were posting posting opinion polls say this wasn't so.
Again, you get so worked up and touchy when people don't take your delectation of something. It's not a healthy complex to have.
So, nothing on 'edited' post lie? As you said; people can draw their own conclusion, about 'honesty'. In both cases and fair minded PH reader would see me ask for evidence and accepting I could be wrong but having a say on what I feel is correct.
It was you with your high standard of evidence of being told something by 4 people on PH that was slightly related, and then holding it up as evidence and declaring it "settled".
It really does go to the heart of the matter with your pro EU gibberish that you have a desperation to want to just declare something "settled" and then beyond argument. There's a real arrogance to that, but then, it doesn't seem to bother you you aren't open to listening to anyone else, so sure of yourself that its you who is right and anyone disagreeing is thick. How very EU in a way.
Your post at 11.27 yesterday contained nothing about the subject matter of Mordaunt or Cameron on the EU , it was a rambling defence of yourself and your deluded comments and claim that a majority in Germany at the time were pro millions of refugees when those you were actually reliant on were posting posting opinion polls say this wasn't so.
Again, you get so worked up and touchy when people don't take your delectation of something. It's not a healthy complex to have.
You seem to decry 'angry' and 'rabid' quite a lot. Why would I be angry about you being a liar? Like some other, mostly rabid(!) kippers , you are disposable entertainment. Nothing more than that. You read, or pretend to read, I can't possibly know, something that is just not there. You did it with German immigration thread, where you have to be as thick as you are to even consider the possibility of anything being unanimous within the whole country. So yes, you made that up. (No, I didn't delete any posts there either, in order to make you look dim). People are indeed very welcome to read those posts and make up their own mind.
There are plenty of people who disagree with me on any number of subjects, that doesn't make them thick, you made that up. I do think that you are, Mr_B, spectacularly thick, in addition to being a proven liar.
Keep digging, still very funny.
chow pan toon said:
They've been an absolute shambles. I'm pretty much decided to vote out from my earlier indecision but Vote Leave has done very little to help me along.
Considering its not exactly been a fair fight, I think the Brexit side has done well. They won the debate at the Palladium, and win every single argument on Question Time, Marr and Daily Politics etc.
The only thing the remain side has is Roaming charges, a long list of scare stories and have adopted the policy of if you say something often enough, people are bound to believe it.
Cobnapint said:
chow pan toon said:
They've been an absolute shambles. I'm pretty much decided to vote out from my earlier indecision but Vote Leave has done very little to help me along.
Considering its not exactly been a fair fight, I think the Brexit side has done well. They won the debate at the Palladium, and win every single argument on Question Time, Marr and Daily Politics etc.
The only thing the remain side has is Roaming charges, a long list of scare stories and have adopted the policy of if you say something often enough, people are bound to believe it.
Zod said:
Cobnapint said:
chow pan toon said:
They've been an absolute shambles. I'm pretty much decided to vote out from my earlier indecision but Vote Leave has done very little to help me along.
Considering its not exactly been a fair fight, I think the Brexit side has done well. They won the debate at the Palladium, and win every single argument on Question Time, Marr and Daily Politics etc.
The only thing the remain side has is Roaming charges, a long list of scare stories and have adopted the policy of if you say something often enough, people are bound to believe it.
turbobloke said:
Zod said:
Cobnapint said:
chow pan toon said:
They've been an absolute shambles. I'm pretty much decided to vote out from my earlier indecision but Vote Leave has done very little to help me along.
Considering its not exactly been a fair fight, I think the Brexit side has done well. They won the debate at the Palladium, and win every single argument on Question Time, Marr and Daily Politics etc.
The only thing the remain side has is Roaming charges, a long list of scare stories and have adopted the policy of if you say something often enough, people are bound to believe it.
I am equally biased to believe that the remain side wins debates that I see, principally because the exit side, in my opinion, has failed utterly to make a case beyond, "it will all be great, honest" and "anyone who disagrees with us is in the pay of the EU/biased/has no right to pronounce on the subject". You have an equally jaundiced view of the remain camp.
Zod said:
Of course you believe that. I didn't see most of these, so I don't know, but I do know that you guys are biased enough to think the exit side wins most debates (other than obvious fails like Cummings).
I am equally biased to believe that the remain side wins debates that I see, principally because the exit side, in my opinion, has failed utterly to make a case beyond, "it will all be great, honest" and "anyone who disagrees with us is in the pay of the EU/biased/has no right to pronounce on the subject". You have an equally jaundiced view of the remain camp.
Fear has prevailed so far.I am equally biased to believe that the remain side wins debates that I see, principally because the exit side, in my opinion, has failed utterly to make a case beyond, "it will all be great, honest" and "anyone who disagrees with us is in the pay of the EU/biased/has no right to pronounce on the subject". You have an equally jaundiced view of the remain camp.
Esseesse said:
Reading a bit about pollster predictions. They blame their lack of predicting the last Tory GE win on 'shy Tories'. Apparently they were meant to have learned this lesson in 1992, but had forgotten it.
I assume the 'shy Tory' phenomenon comes from it basically being more PC to be a left wing luvvie than a conservative. It seems to be clear to me that the luvvies support remain, and it's unPC to be a leaver. Could there be a shy factor in the polls? Is it less fashionable to be a Tory voter or a Leave voter?
I assume the 'shy Tory' phenomenon comes from it basically being more PC to be a left wing luvvie than a conservative. It seems to be clear to me that the luvvies support remain, and it's unPC to be a leaver. Could there be a shy factor in the polls? Is it less fashionable to be a Tory voter or a Leave voter?
Esseesse said:
Why do online polls put leave a little ahead and phone polls put remain significantly ahead?
I would expect the opposite result, as phoning would have more 'old' weighting. Also I notice on Facebook that leave posts have comments left by leavers as you would expect, however remain posts posted by genuine remain campaigns also have comments overwhelmingly from angry leavers. Why is this?
My personal experience is that Leavers are much more boistorous in their views and more likely to share them. I posted beforehand, if one were to look at my Facebook timeline you'd think everyone wanted to vote out but it's mostly the work of one person constantly sharing and liking pro-Brexit stuff.I would expect the opposite result, as phoning would have more 'old' weighting. Also I notice on Facebook that leave posts have comments left by leavers as you would expect, however remain posts posted by genuine remain campaigns also have comments overwhelmingly from angry leavers. Why is this?
From what I've seen, I think you may have it backwards with the top quote and that the 'quiet' voters are the remainers.
cookie118 said:
From what I've seen, I think you may have it backwards with the top quote and that the 'quiet' voters are the remainers.
So quiet they won't turn out to vote?The outcome next month may well depend on turnout percentages in different age groups.
With Remain ahead in the polls, which is relatively meaningless at this stage given the margins involved yet people not so interested in polls and politics won't realise, the quiet Remainians may well consider it sewn up already and not bother going out to vote.
Zod said:
I am equally biased to believe that the remainLeave side wins debates that I see, principally because the exit Remain side, in my opinion, has failed utterly to make a case beyond, "it will all be great, honest" and "anyone who disagrees with us is in the pay of the EU/biased/has no right to pronounce on the subject a racist little Englander who wants to bring the drawbridge up and not be friends with anyone".
So you see, the problem exists on both sides. With a couple of exceptions:- The Remain side has completely failed to make a positive case for staying
- The Remain side have completely failed to tell us what the EU will look like in 5 years' time, despite insisting on the same from the Leave side in the event of Brexit
- The Remain side can confidently predict we will be thousands of pounds per person worse of in several decade's time, but the same people cannot accurately predict the UK finances in 6 months' time
Sam All said:
Zod said:
Of course you believe that. I didn't see most of these, so I don't know, but I do know that you guys are biased enough to think the exit side wins most debates (other than obvious fails like Cummings).
I am equally biased to believe that the remain side wins debates that I see, principally because the exit side, in my opinion, has failed utterly to make a case beyond, "it will all be great, honest" and "anyone who disagrees with us is in the pay of the EU/biased/has no right to pronounce on the subject". You have an equally jaundiced view of the remain camp.
Fear has prevailed so far.I am equally biased to believe that the remain side wins debates that I see, principally because the exit side, in my opinion, has failed utterly to make a case beyond, "it will all be great, honest" and "anyone who disagrees with us is in the pay of the EU/biased/has no right to pronounce on the subject". You have an equally jaundiced view of the remain camp.
Zod said:
There are four more weeks of this to endure though.
Unfortunately there are. Was it ever confirmed that the Remain head honcho, aka Cameron the PM, had managed to waive purdah? If so there's still time for him to claim that everyone's organs will stop working if we vote Leave. If not then we'll be spared the worst of the propaganda.
There's relatively recent 'official' documentation claiming that the 4-week purdah is still in place, starting on the 27th, which is tomorrow...
www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN05262.pdf
Here's hoping.
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