The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2

The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2

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Discussion

KrissKross

2,182 posts

100 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
EddieSteadyGo said:
KrissKross said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
decisions have in their mind some factor for 'better the devil you know'.
Probably why anyone below the age of 40 should not be allowed to vote on such an important matter, as they have only had experience of this disaster and somehow think its normal... wink
If you are going to use the criteria that you have to have adult experience of the situation before we joined the EU in order to be allowed to vote, you would bar anyone under 60 from voting.
Not sure if anyone has noticed the wink at the end of my sentence.

KrissKross

2,182 posts

100 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
TTwiggy said:
KrissKross said:
zygalski said:
KrissKross said:
Probably why anyone below the age of 40 should not be allowed to vote on such an important matter, as they have only had experience of this disaster and somehow think its normal... wink
Perhaps nobody over 65 should be allowed to vote either, since they may not have too long to live with the consequences.
Can you look back at when you was 18 and tell me all the decisions you made then were sensible?

There are also a lot of wise old people who want the best for their (young) families. Many people feel that they have put a lot into this country and can see it going the wrong direction. I would put my faith in their judgement more than any student.
Women too eh? Their pretty little heads are so full of shoes, handbags and babies that they really can't be trusted to put a X in the right place, even when their husbands have told them how to vote.
I can only assume some daft twisted mindset can alter what I have said and make it about something completely different.

You weren't Jimmy Savile's PR advisor by any chance?


EddieSteadyGo

11,717 posts

202 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
KrissKross said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
KrissKross said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
decisions have in their mind some factor for 'better the devil you know'.
Probably why anyone below the age of 40 should not be allowed to vote on such an important matter, as they have only had experience of this disaster and somehow think its normal... wink
If you are going to use the criteria that you have to have adult experience of the situation before we joined the EU in order to be allowed to vote, you would bar anyone under 60 from voting.
Not sure if anyone has noticed the wink at the end of my sentence.
Missed that one lol

Mrr T

12,152 posts

264 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
Tony427 said:
You come across as being arrogant, rude, ignorant and condescending in equal measure.

Why would the laws as currently applied have to be dropped? The lorry drivers would still legally responsible for the wagons once on UK soil. That would not change. In addition the ferry companies would also be responsible for the stowaways thus two parties would be highly motivated to ensure that illegal immigrants are found and ejected from the boat/ lorry/ train.

As for people who might get through and then seeking asylum I am sure a government intent on protecting the borders would take note that the last time we looked France was not at war with anyone, it is a safe country, and therefore the asylum seekers should be sent back, much as it appears the EU itself is doing to migrants in Greece being deported back to Turkey.


The staff in France would be employed by the ferry companies, or our government and would check wagons in France just as ferry company staff do now but there would be more of them and better managed. When we queue in France for the ferry we are often asked to open the back of the wagon or the van or boot of the car to check for illegals by the british ferry staff, not the French.

Have you seen the number of cameras at the ports. Lots of NPR cameras also, probably face recognition of drivers in addition I would hazard a guess. No you probably haven't because it seems you speak from no practical experience of crossing the channel, if you had you would not be appearing so ignorant of the true facts. Or you had your eyes shut.

It is perfectly possible to check for stowaways on wagons in transit with a carbon dioxide probe within the wagon, its a system fixed to the wagon with tamper proof alarms and a signal in the cab. Its basically a mobile version of the probes used at the ports. Someone I used to work with invented it. or rather his team did.

But then you didnt know about that did you?

Oh, and what about the rumoured dogs checking the cars and wagons on the car and lorry decks. I have seen the dogs on the ships but never seen them in action, but they do have free rein on the car decks once at sea when the passengers and lorry drivers are forbidden access. Plus the many cameras on the decks. I think this would be called checking in transit.

See what I mean about ignorant.

And who are these irregular immigrants of which you speak. They are not iregular they are illegal.

You really must try harder not to expose yourself to ridicule through lack of knowledge or experience.

Cheers,

Tony











Edited by Tony427 on Thursday 26th May 20:29
If I come across as arrogant and rude it's because I cannot believe anyone would suggest moving border control back to the UK would improve the position.

So with private companies checking vehicles in France:
1 You cannot fine a driver with extra passengers.
2 If they find a stowaway who refuses to leave a vehicle they would have to call the French police to remove them.
3 The opportunities for corruption would be rife and the UK would not be able to do anything.

Not sure why you mention CO2 sensors I do not think these are fitted in many lorries.

As for checking lorries en route it's not possible on either the train or the ferry.

So with UK border checks now in the UK there are bound to be long delays. So lots of chances of a stowaway slipping out of a lorry unseen by a camera.

I had to say I really laughed at the idea of facial recognition, so we have a data base of irregular immigrants? As for the French taking them back please stop I cannot stop laughing.

Tony

don4l

10,058 posts

175 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
zygalski said:
don4l said:
The evidence does appear to support you.

The fact that Angela Merkel is running Europe doesn't seem to bother the remainers. Clearly, people are not worried about the Fourth Reich. In fact, many of you appear to be welcoming it with open arms.

It makes me wonder why you bothered fighting in the second world war.

Well... when I say "you" I mean your courageous grandparents who clearly believed in their country, and were willing to fight to maintain its independence.

I find it ironic that so many people gave their lives so that you would have the freedom to give away your freedom.

Hopefully, you can now understand why some people view the "remainers" as little more than traitors.
Ah... Don in full cock-womble meltdown mode. Truly a thing to behold. laugh
I thought that my post was very restrained.

I find it interesting that several of you appear to disagree with me, but you all seem unable to say what you actually disagree with.



Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
don4l said:
The evidence does appear to support you.

The fact that Angela Merkel is running Europe doesn't seem to bother the remainers. Clearly, people are not worried about the Fourth Reich. In fact, many of you appear to be welcoming it with open arms.

It makes me wonder why you bothered fighting in the second world war.

Well... when I say "you" I mean your courageous grandparents who clearly believed in their country, and were willing to fight to maintain its independence.

I find it ironic that so many people gave their lives so that you would have the freedom to give away your freedom.

Hopefully, you can now understand why some people view the "remainers" as little more than traitors.
That's worth only a laugh in your face. Utterly absurd.

Mr_B

10,480 posts

242 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
More project fear today, now trying to plant that seed of doubt and confusion that deportations of EU nationals legally here will be sent home on a Brexit vote.
There must be a few of the more sensible remain side on here rather embarrassed they may win the vote based on so much outright BS. No ? Please say its so.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-tory-...

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
Phil1 said:
Has anyone got a current list of all the dire outcomes should the vote be to Leave? You know, world war, £4300 here, £230 there, 18% house price drop, etc?
I think if you add up how much it's going to cost us all it will be greater than the average income after tax, and taxes will have to go up too. But that won't matter because if we arn't killed in the next European war and the terrorists don't get us then we will drown from global warming.

Frankly that PH can have a more grown up debate than the government and leave campaign goes some way to explain the contempt that so many hold the political classes in. Had the government played a straight bat they would have won easily because the splintered leave campaign would always revert to foreigners innit and rhetoric. Instead the government has lead a childish campaign of ridiculous fear mongering, treating the public as fvcking simpletons in the cynical analysis that enough of them are. It's looking increasingly less likely to happen but the government deserve to lose. A remain vote will be taken by the EU as a ringing endorsement, the next time he finds themselves in Brussels I hope Dave takes plenty of lube.

Sam All

3,101 posts

100 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
Mr_B said:
More project fear today, now trying to plant that seed of doubt and confusion that deportations of EU nationals legally here will be sent home on a Brexit vote.
There must be a few of the more sensible remain side on here rather embarrassed they may win the vote based on so much outright BS. No ? Please say its so.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-tory-...
Isn't there select committee that can admonish for this pathetic practice.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
Sam All said:
Isn't there select committee that can admonish for this pathetic practice.
Both sides have been told off for their figures today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

don4l

10,058 posts

175 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
Zod said:
don4l said:
The evidence does appear to support you.

The fact that Angela Merkel is running Europe doesn't seem to bother the remainers. Clearly, people are not worried about the Fourth Reich. In fact, many of you appear to be welcoming it with open arms.

It makes me wonder why you bothered fighting in the second world war.

Well... when I say "you" I mean your courageous grandparents who clearly believed in their country, and were willing to fight to maintain its independence.

I find it ironic that so many people gave their lives so that you would have the freedom to give away your freedom.

Hopefully, you can now understand why some people view the "remainers" as little more than traitors.
That's worth only a laugh in your face. Utterly absurd.
Why will nobody actually say what they disagree with?

Your argument seems to be "I don't like the messenger, therefore the message must be wrong".

That is an absurd position.


Imagine that your pal, Jeremy Corbyn, had written those words. How would you view them then?


Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
don4l said:
Zod said:
don4l said:
The evidence does appear to support you.

The fact that Angela Merkel is running Europe doesn't seem to bother the remainers. Clearly, people are not worried about the Fourth Reich. In fact, many of you appear to be welcoming it with open arms.

It makes me wonder why you bothered fighting in the second world war.

Well... when I say "you" I mean your courageous grandparents who clearly believed in their country, and were willing to fight to maintain its independence.

I find it ironic that so many people gave their lives so that you would have the freedom to give away your freedom.

Hopefully, you can now understand why some people view the "remainers" as little more than traitors.
That's worth only a laugh in your face. Utterly absurd.
Why will nobody actually say what they disagree with?

Your argument seems to be "I don't like the messenger, therefore the message must be wrong".

That is an absurd position.


Imagine that your pal, Jeremy Corbyn, had written those words. How would you view them then?
Post by post you become more absurd.

Merkel does not run Europe. she is not a Nazi. She is struggling to run her country. have you ever met a German? They want to make money. They want the Southern Europeans to learn financial discipline. They do not want to control the rest of Europe and they like the UK a lot.

Jermemy Corbym - which words?

Cobnapint

8,596 posts

150 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
Mr_B said:
More project fear today, now trying to plant that seed of doubt and confusion that deportations of EU nationals legally here will be sent home on a Brexit vote.
There must be a few of the more sensible remain side on here rather embarrassed they may win the vote based on so much outright BS. No ? Please say its so.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-tory-...
Just when you thought they'd peaked in the bullsh*t stakes, they come out with this disgraceful suggestion.

And we thought North Korea was full of st.

BJG1

5,966 posts

211 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
don4l said:
It makes me wonder why you bothered fighting in the second world war.
Yeah, I too can't see any difference between Hitler and Merkel...

You are a fking idiot and grossly disrespectful to those who lost their lives fighting fascism.

Murph7355

37,649 posts

255 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
Zod said:
...have you ever met a German? They want to make money. They want the Southern Europeans to learn financial discipline. They do not want to control the rest of Europe and they like the UK a lot....
I wonder how supportive of the EU project they are on average...

KrissKross

2,182 posts

100 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
BJG1 said:
don4l said:
It makes me wonder why you bothered fighting in the second world war.
Yeah, I too can't see any difference between Hitler and Merkel...

You are a fking idiot and grossly disrespectful to those who lost their lives fighting fascism.
I am being forced to put up with things I do not want or believe in because of the dictators currently ruling us. Merkel is at the top of the pile.

I will join a far right or extreme group if we remain in the EU, I might even set one up of my own! Voting for mainstream UK parties will become pointless.

Your type will call me a fascist and extreme, I will call it survival..


FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
I wonder how supportive of the EU project they are on average...
That is something that struck me with the recent Austrian vote and comparison with the EU elections in 2014.

If you look back to 2014 there was much discussion about the rise of Eurosceptic parties across the EU. UKIP in UK, National Front in France and so on. When the results were in it was clear that in some nations Eurosceptic parties had lost ground, obviously the new accession nations, Poland and generally those nations who were significant net recipients. Amongst these nations where Eurosceptic parties lost ground was Austria.

Now compare that with the recent Austrian election. Not strictly a fair and direct comparison possibly, but indicative of a shift in opinion.

I still think that the EU is dead, but just doesn't realise it yet. At least in current makeup. How long that will take to change is unknown.

hidetheelephants

23,753 posts

192 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
Zod said:
ost by post you become more absurd.

Merkel does not run Europe. she is not a Nazi. She is struggling to run her country. have you ever met a German? They want to make money. They want the Southern Europeans to learn financial discipline. They do not want to control the rest of Europe and they like the UK a lot.
The germans' dunderheaded refusal to accept that southern europeans don't think like they do is going to rend the eurozone asunder; blindly repeating the same failed actions, sticking another plaster on the suppurating wound will not fix it. They can want all they like it's not happening.

Murph7355

37,649 posts

255 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
FiF said:
That is something that struck me with the recent Austrian vote and comparison with the EU elections in 2014.

If you look back to 2014 there was much discussion about the rise of Eurosceptic parties across the EU. UKIP in UK, National Front in France and so on. When the results were in it was clear that in some nations Eurosceptic parties had lost ground, obviously the new accession nations, Poland and generally those nations who were significant net recipients. Amongst these nations where Eurosceptic parties lost ground was Austria.

Now compare that with the recent Austrian election. Not strictly a fair and direct comparison possibly, but indicative of a shift in opinion.

I still think that the EU is dead, but just doesn't realise it yet. At least in current makeup. How long that will take to change is unknown.
I'm not sure basic electoral results are a safe barometer.

As an example, if you took the UK you could be forgiven that UKIP was no further ahead in its aims in the last election, and yet it took 4x the amount of votes it had previously (and arguably forced one of the main parties to make a key manifesto pledge).

Looking at the two parties you note (and looking at wiki which is always a little dangerous)...

French NF:
- recovered lost ground massively between 2007 and 2012 (no later figures), more than trebling their vote.
- getting on for doubled their vote in the presidential election across the same period
- weren't a millions miles off trebling their vote in regional council elections between 2010 and 2015. This one is potentially more of a barometer as it's a recent jump and perhaps more suggestive of what people on the street are thinking?

Austrian FPO:
- 12% increase between 2008 and 2013 in National Council votes
- despite ultimately losing the presidential vote, they took a huge amount in pure numbers (60% more than the Greens who ultimately won in the first round of voting...)

I'm not sure any of this suggests that the electorates in these countries are moving away from Eurosceptic parties. Quite the opposite potentially.

I don't necessarily think this is a good thing, but it would be interesting to see the similar figures for the other net contributing countries in the EU.

Norfolkit

2,394 posts

189 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
On our local BBC news (Look East) we've got Liz Truss holding a pig (an actual squeaky pig, not a toy), looked ridiculous (Truss not the pig).
Question - Minister aren't our farmers at a disadvantage with the lower standards of animal welfare in Europe. Answer - yes but we are pushing very hard on this.

Well they've only had 40 odd years to sort it out to be fair.

Question (to farmer) - Do you think you'll lose business if we leave the EU?
Farmer - Yes
Question - How do you know that?
Farmer - I don't

Somebody has been listening to but not questioning Project Fear.