The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2

[turbobloke]

Axionknight said:

FiF said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

Of course in reality he would have to go in the event of a Leave vote for all the obvious reasons. But the people who are advocating this now (including yourself it seems), make a Leave vote a bit less likely.

Considering I've been opposed to Cameron's leadership from before the 2010 GE it's simply a case of being consistent. Does pointing out the main person in a campaign is guilty of blatant lies to bolster his case make a Leave vote less likely, not sure of that.

If the rumours surrounding the rifts within the Tory Party are true then he may well be gone either way. History repeats itself, a leader deposed and the Tory Party in disarray - heart breaking.

Self-inflicted by CMD, there was no requirement to spin like a top and that's putting a kind perspective on his bizarre statements. It's almost as if he thinks Brexit would be bad for his 'legacy' which must be guarded at all costs. He may not get the one he was expecting, regardless of the vote outcome.

[///ajd]

PRTVR said:

///ajd said:

Quite. Its putting these useless fwits in the EU that is damaging the UKs interests. Farages record here is borderline fraud of his elected position and salary. Yet not one of the eurosceptics ever speak out about this tomfoolery.

Sadly, like when the SNP lost the referendum, I fear even more will vote for these disruptive flag wavers in MEP elections than before, getting in on a whinge vote and splitting the more constructive candidates.

When will you grasp the simple fact that they were not elected to do anything to justify the EUs continued existence, they were elected on a mandate to get us out, when out the idiotic fisheries policy stops having any impact on the UK.

I understand that, it doesn't change my view its a pointless protest vote that actually damages the UK within the EU by just being a malcontent.

When this referendum is won by remain, all those 20 years and millions of pounds wasted on hannan and farage just whinging as MEPs will have been for NIL - when better more constructive MEPs could have done more for the UK.

Utter, utter waste. Ironic that they complain about the £350m (which has been shown we get back via trade/economic benefits) when their costs are truely wasted, with no benefit to UK whatsoever.

[turbobloke]

///ajd said:

PRTVR said:

///ajd said:

Quite. Its putting these useless fwits in the EU that is damaging the UKs interests. Farages record here is borderline fraud of his elected position and salary. Yet not one of the eurosceptics ever speak out about this tomfoolery.

Sadly, like when the SNP lost the referendum, I fear even more will vote for these disruptive flag wavers in MEP elections than before, getting in on a whinge vote and splitting the more constructive candidates.

When will you grasp the simple fact that they were not elected to do anything to justify the EUs continued existence, they were elected on a mandate to get us out, when out the idiotic fisheries policy stops having any impact on the UK.

I understand that, it doesn't change my view its a pointless protest vote that actually damages the UK within the EU by just being a malcontent.

When has the EU had the UK's interests at heart? We're ignored, marginalised, derided, but our money is pocketed. What's to damage? The megalomaniacs in charge of the EU project care about their project, their egos and their pensions. The people in nation states are an inconvenience who deserve no less than the undemocratic insertion of technocrats and to have votes re-cast when the 'wrong' result is obtained initially.

///ajd said:

When this referendum is won by remain, all those 20 years and millions of pounds wasted on hannan and farage just whinging as MEPs will have been for NIL - when better more constructive MEPs could have done more for the UK.

Could you explain how? Remember the fraction 1/28.

Also the repeated winning of lotteries must be boring to you by now.

///ajd said:

Utter, utter waste. Ironic that they complain about the £350m (which has been shown we get back via trade/economic benefits) when their costs are truely wasted, with no benefit to UK whatsoever.

Sounds much like the EU's influence.

[Axionknight]

///ajd said:

PRTVR said:

///ajd said:

Quite. Its putting these useless fwits in the EU that is damaging the UKs interests. Farages record here is borderline fraud of his elected position and salary. Yet not one of the eurosceptics ever speak out about this tomfoolery.

Sadly, like when the SNP lost the referendum, I fear even more will vote for these disruptive flag wavers in MEP elections than before, getting in on a whinge vote and splitting the more constructive candidates.

When will you grasp the simple fact that they were not elected to do anything to justify the EUs continued existence, they were elected on a mandate to get us out, when out the idiotic fisheries policy stops having any impact on the UK.

I understand that, it doesn't change my view its a pointless protest vote that actually damages the UK within the EU by just being a malcontent.

When this referendum is won by remain, all those 20 years and millions of pounds wasted on hannan and farage just whinging as MEPs will have been for NIL - when better more constructive MEPs could have done more for the UK.

Utter, utter waste. Ironic that they complain about the £350m (which has been shown we get back via trade/economic benefits) when their costs are truely wasted, with no benefit to UK whatsoever.

How would say, Labour or Tory MEPs have benefited the country any better, out of interest?

[0000]

///ajd said:

I understand that, it doesn't change my view its a pointless protest vote that actually damages the UK within the EU by just being a malcontent.

When this referendum is won by remain, all those 20 years and millions of pounds wasted on hannan and farage just whinging as MEPs will have been for NIL - when better more constructive MEPs could have done more for the UK.

Utter, utter waste. Ironic that they complain about the £350m (which has been shown we get back via trade/economic benefits) when their costs are truely wasted, with no benefit to UK whatsoever.

Only if you view serving a democratic voice as a waste, which pretty much sums up the EU experiment. If leave win, then you'll have some waste to talk about.

[anonymous-user]

PRTVR said:

When will you grasp the simple fact that they were not elected to do anything to justify the EUs continued existence, they were elected on a mandate to get us out, when out the idiotic fisheries policy stops having any impact on the UK.

They are elected to represent the uk's and their constituents interests at the European Parliament.

Farage seems to be happy to take the position but not to do the work. He's not working for the uk's or his constituents interests at these meetings-but uses the situation to further his own career.

[turbobloke]

Axionknight said:

///ajd said:

PRTVR said:

///ajd said:

Quite. Its putting these useless fwits in the EU that is damaging the UKs interests. Farages record here is borderline fraud of his elected position and salary. Yet not one of the eurosceptics ever speak out about this tomfoolery.

Sadly, like when the SNP lost the referendum, I fear even more will vote for these disruptive flag wavers in MEP elections than before, getting in on a whinge vote and splitting the more constructive candidates.

When will you grasp the simple fact that they were not elected to do anything to justify the EUs continued existence, they were elected on a mandate to get us out, when out the idiotic fisheries policy stops having any impact on the UK.

I understand that, it doesn't change my view its a pointless protest vote that actually damages the UK within the EU by just being a malcontent.

When this referendum is won by remain, all those 20 years and millions of pounds wasted on hannan and farage just whinging as MEPs will have been for NIL - when better more constructive MEPs could have done more for the UK.

Utter, utter waste. Ironic that they complain about the £350m (which has been shown we get back via trade/economic benefits) when their costs are truely wasted, with no benefit to UK whatsoever.

How would say, Labour or Tory MEPs have benefited the country any better, out of interest?

Also, the illogical expectation of not having MEPs opposed to the profligate dysfunctionality of the EU is tantamount to not having an Opposition in the UK parliament. How much better things would be having a parliament singing in one-party unison. That sounds a bit totalitarian to me, a bit like the EUP without UKIP MEPs.

[dirkgently]

seventy two years ago men were preparing to storm fortress Europe to protect our hard won freedoms, many would sacrifice everything.
I just need the courage to vote leave and a willingness to sacrifice cheap holidays.

[Mrr T]

steveatesh said:

steveT350C said:

We deserve some answers from the Remain camp...

http://peterjnorth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/we-deser...

Interesting post from P North, but of course it can be discounted because according to ///ajd we don't need to worry as much about the future direction or plans for the EU, just for Brexit.

You are missing the point. Brexit requires change so its reasonable to ask for a plan.

Remain default position is that nothing changes since any substantial change for the EU will require a treaty change over which the UK has a veto.

[steveatesh]

cookie118 said:

They are elected to represent the uk's and their constituents interests at the European Parliament.

Farage seems to be happy to take the position but not to do the work. He's not working for the uk's or his constituents interests at these meetings-but uses the situation to further his own career.

Happily he can be voted out if the electorate chose too, unlike those in real power in the EU.

[turbobloke]

cookie118 said:

Farage seems to be happy to take the position but not to do the work. He's not working for the uk's or his constituents interests at these meetings-but uses the situation to further his own career.

Surely you mean he's not working in the manner you and others might want him to work? Farage sees his constituents' interests served best by doing what he does and as some sort of opposition to the EUP's nodding dog contingent of federalist superstatists he's most welcome to those with other viewpoints than your own.

[turbobloke]

steveatesh said:

cookie118 said:

They are elected to represent the uk's and their constituents interests at the European Parliament.

Farage seems to be happy to take the position but not to do the work. He's not working for the uk's or his constituents interests at these meetings-but uses the situation to further his own career.

Happily he can be voted out if the electorate chose too, unlike those in real power in the EU.

But we can vote Juncker et al out with our mark in the polling booth, there musht be shome mishtake.

[steveatesh]

Mrr T said:

steveatesh said:

steveT350C said:

We deserve some answers from the Remain camp...

http://peterjnorth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/we-deser...

Interesting post from P North, but of course it can be discounted because according to ///ajd we don't need to worry as much about the future direction or plans for the EU, just for Brexit.

You are missing the point. Brexit requires change so its reasonable to ask for a plan.

Remain default position is that nothing changes since any substantial change for the EU will require a treaty change over which the UK has a veto.

But not necessarily true. The EU will change and substantially too, as already said the vote for remain is not a vote for the status quo.

How do you know (not believe) that the veto will still exist let alone be used in any treaty moving forward?

[steveT350C]

Some sombre reading from another North...

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=8...

[turbobloke]

steveT350C said:

Some sombre reading from another North...

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=8...

Totally nailed at the last para.

Link said:

In the end, we either control our own destiny as a people, or others control it for us. That is what we must decide on 23 June 2016.

What?! No mention of decimals in GDP?

[Axionknight]

steveatesh said:

But not necessarily true. The EU will change and substantially too, as already said the vote for remain is not a vote for the status quo.

How do you know (not believe) that the veto will still exist let alone be used in any treaty moving forward?

The power of the veto is being slowly eroded in favour of a majority voting system in many key aread too - around fourty of them IIRC.

[FiF]

turbobloke said:

steveT350C said:

Some sombre reading from another North...

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=8...

Totally nailed at the last para.

Link said:

In the end, we either control our own destiny as a people, or others control it for us. That is what we must decide on 23 June 2016.

What?! No mention of decimals in GDP?

Yep last bit nailed it. The heart of the question facing us.

[Sam All]

Axionknight said:

steveatesh said:

Much has been made of the lack of a detailed plan describing how the UK will leave the EU and then continue into the future, but I have not seen similar detailed plans of how the EU will look and change as it moves forward.

(quote snipped).

They don't want you to think about that, it's why they don't make a big deal about Camerons "guarantees" of no further integration without a referendum - they know that a lot of people won't believe it and it's an argument they don't want to have, why the Outers aren't making more noise over it is a mystery, especially after a key EU figure said the "guarantee" isn't legally binding.

He has been sold a lemon, now he doesn't want to talk about it. He is also, in my opinion, selling a lemon to the public, he talks about leaving being the big bad unknown, and to some extent it is, no doubt about it. But I'd say the future isn't much more certain if we remain, oh we'll still be a member that's a certainty - but what kind of member? Where will the EU be in twenty, thirty years? Will the nations within it still exist and if so, to what extent? Will the EU even exist? It's a shoddy outfit and is badly run, Angela Merkel once said that the key to solving the EUs problems is "more Europe" and she's right, a true federal European state is the end goal and would go a long way towards alleviating a lot of the problems that are hamstringing the EU, do you want your country to be a part of that?

Doesn't matter, as long as the GDP figures remain healthy, after all those are the only true measure of a countries success, we can't upset the status quo right?

Edited by Axionknight on Monday 30th May 08:30

With our leaders, bankers,economists telling us it will be Armageddon if we leave, by staying in will we have more influence or will Merkel tell us to just stfu.

[Mr_B]

///ajd said:

I understand that, it doesn't change my view its a pointless protest vote that actually damages the UK within the EU by just being a malcontent.

When this referendum is won by remain, all those 20 years and millions of pounds wasted on hannan and farage just whinging as MEPs will have been for NIL - when better more constructive MEPs could have done more for the UK.

Utter, utter waste. Ironic that they complain about the £350m (which has been shown we get back via trade/economic benefits) when their costs are truely wasted, with no benefit to UK whatsoever.

Haha. Yeah, the EU really needed more useless yes men who don't rock the boat or bring any attention to it. If only there was no opposition huh ?

[Mrr T]

steveatesh said:

Mrr T said:

steveatesh said:

steveT350C said:

We deserve some answers from the Remain camp...

http://peterjnorth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/we-deser...

Interesting post from P North, but of course it can be discounted because according to ///ajd we don't need to worry as much about the future direction or plans for the EU, just for Brexit.

You are missing the point. Brexit requires change so its reasonable to ask for a plan.

Remain default position is that nothing changes since any substantial change for the EU will require a treaty change over which the UK has a veto.

But not necessarily true. The EU will change and substantially too, as already said the vote for remain is not a vote for the status quo.

How do you know (not believe) that the veto will still exist let alone be used in any treaty moving forward?

It not that the EU may change its that the EU should change. The euro crisis shows the euro zone muzt move towards closer cooperation on economic matters. The problem is while it was difficult to get 14 countries to agree a treaty it's proving almost impossible to get 28.

The fact is for all the ideas of the commission and it's various working groups there is no agreement at governmental level as to what should be in the next treaty.

As for removing the veto that would involve a treaty over which the UK would have a veto.