The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2

[Sam All]

turbobloke said:

You appear to have a misunderstanding of how the EU operates, for example where were the meetings and who attended then prior to Merkel unilaterally suspending the Dublin Agreement which supposedly applies across the EU? How does our voice exert our interests within the EU Commission when we have no elected MEPs there (obvious point but it reinforces the fact that the Commissioners are not directly elected by UK voters) and 1 Commissioner out of 28? Our EU voice has laryngitis.

Amazing the leave campaign too suffer from laryngitis, or the quiet man has not turned up the volume to hammer home this abuse of the democratic process by the paymaster.

[turbobloke]

cookie118 said:

PRTVR said:

So you want people who turn up to meetings even though they have no power ?
You do understand what UKIP stands for ? This is democracy at work, you may not like it, understandable if you support the EU.

It might as well be the UK Indolent Party given the amount of work they do for us.

Work as defined by you and 'for us' as defined by you.

The work they do is fine as far as I'm concerned where their efforts are directed to getting the UK out of the EU, rather than toddle along to meetings about stuff handed down from the Commission as scraps to feed the minds of the willingly led in terms of the EU being worthy of the term 'democratic'.

[PRTVR]

cookie118 said:

PRTVR said:

So you want people who turn up to meetings even though they have no power ?
You do understand what UKIP stands for ? This is democracy at work, you may not like it, understandable if you support the EU.

It might as well be the UK Indolent Party given the amount of work they do for us.

Democracy, isn't it a wonderful thing.

[turbobloke]

Sam All said:

turbobloke said:

You appear to have a misunderstanding of how the EU operates, for example where were the meetings and who attended then prior to Merkel unilaterally suspending the Dublin Agreement which supposedly applies across the EU? How does our voice exert our interests within the EU Commission when we have no elected MEPs there (obvious point but it reinforces the fact that the Commissioners are not directly elected by UK voters) and 1 Commissioner out of 28? Our EU voice has laryngitis.

Amazing the leave campaign too suffer from laryngitis, or the quiet man has not turned up the volume to hammer home this abuse of the democratic process by the paymaster.

In a meeting, when meetings are well-known as the alternative to real work? The EU gets to know the views of UKIP MEPs on EU lack of democracy and other failings as e.g. UKIP MEP speeches tell the eurodrones face to face. The look on the faces of the eurodrones when this happens provides and represents an excellent performance indicator.

[anonymous-user]

turbobloke said:

cookie118 said:

PRTVR said:

So you want people who turn up to meetings even though they have no power ?
You do understand what UKIP stands for ? This is democracy at work, you may not like it, understandable if you support the EU.

It might as well be the UK Indolent Party given the amount of work they do for us.

Work as defined by you and 'for us' as defined by you.

The work they do is fine as far as I'm concerned where their efforts are directed to getting the UK out of the EU, rather than toddle along to meetings about stuff handed down from the Commission as scraps to feed the minds of the willingly led in terms of the EU being worthy of the term 'democratic'.

So if you were a uk fisherman would you be happy that your representative had been to only one committee meeting out of more than 40 and had missed a number of key votes and had then used your plight for political gain?

[turbobloke]

cookie118 said:

turbobloke said:

cookie118 said:

PRTVR said:

So you want people who turn up to meetings even though they have no power ?
You do understand what UKIP stands for ? This is democracy at work, you may not like it, understandable if you support the EU.

It might as well be the UK Indolent Party given the amount of work they do for us.

Work as defined by you and 'for us' as defined by you.

The work they do is fine as far as I'm concerned where their efforts are directed to getting the UK out of the EU, rather than toddle along to meetings about stuff handed down from the Commission as scraps to feed the minds of the willingly led in terms of the EU being worthy of the term 'democratic'.

So if you were a uk fisherman would you be happy that your representative had been to only one committee meeting out of more than 40 and had missed a number of key votes and had then used your plight for political gain?

If as a UK fisherman I had a reasonably accurate view of how the EU operates it wouldn't concern me. As a SME owner it doesn't concern me.

Here's a meeting, quite well attended, representing excellent work by the participant featured.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBBwhJx11Bc&fe...

[PRTVR]

cookie118 said:

turbobloke said:

cookie118 said:

PRTVR said:

So you want people who turn up to meetings even though they have no power ?
You do understand what UKIP stands for ? This is democracy at work, you may not like it, understandable if you support the EU.

It might as well be the UK Indolent Party given the amount of work they do for us.

Work as defined by you and 'for us' as defined by you.

The work they do is fine as far as I'm concerned where their efforts are directed to getting the UK out of the EU, rather than toddle along to meetings about stuff handed down from the Commission as scraps to feed the minds of the willingly led in terms of the EU being worthy of the term 'democratic'.

.

So if you were a uk fisherman would you be happy that your representative had been to only one committee meeting out of more than 40 and had missed a number of key votes and had then used your plight for political gain?

Edit to correct nesting
You are still labouring under the misapprehension that they can change anything, they cannot.

Edited by PRTVR on Tuesday 31st May 17:13

[Zod]

steveatesh said:

///ajd said:

FiF said:

Groundhog day, yet certain people continue to wonder why they get repeatedly accused of making things up, or why they get laughed at for demanding certainty and detailed route maps for certain issues, whilst blatantly ignoring the uncertainty and no details on their own account.

It is not a wonder.

- the remain side get accused of making things up as the fundamental points made cannot be challenged. e.g. £4000 based on a 3-5% GDP dip! You made it up!!!! Well, its a forecast - where 95+% of economists agree GDP would be hit.

- they get laughed at and mocked for the same reason. no answer, so just mock. worked for salmond for ages. etc.

It is what the side with holes in its bucket resorts to when the game is up.

Here you go FiF if we remain we will get more of this:

Fresh Start said:

"The regulatory regime imposed by the EU benefits product sectors more than service sectors. In the UK, 78.5 per cent is in services, 21 per cent of GDP is in manufacturing and 0.7 per cent in agriculture. We are bound by inflexible legislation and more is on its way. Property law and company law is to be harmonised across Europe. EU regulations apply to 100 per cent of UK businesses yet only five per cent of SMEs trade with the EU.

Company law is already mostly harmonised under the Second Company Law Directive and has been since 1976. We have always had our own financial regulations and the current ones are gold-plated versions of the EU Directives (yes, we take what the EU supposedly imposes and we make it stricter,so how do you think leaving the EU would improve the situation?).

Fresh Start said:

The commission has proposed taxes are harmonised across Europe, increasing inflexibility. VAT is already a European tax, replacing the former purchase tax. For example, the EU prevents us from exempting sanitary products and requires us to raise VAT on solar panels. With different rates on different goods and services tax returns for exporting businesses is complex. Competition is badly affected.

The point is harmonisation of VAT to allow competition between businesses, not tax authorities. As for other taxes, there is no such proposal on personal taxes and, much though the French and the Commission would love to harmonise corporate tax, they don't have a hope in Hell of doing so, because each Member State has a veto. That is a fact and will remain so, even if a liar, like Penny Mordaunt claims otherwise.

Fresh Start said:

Government procurement contracts have to be offered to businesses across Europe; UK businesses cannot be prioritised for UK deals, and the bidding process is often far too complex for SMEs. At the same time the UK is unable to enter into its own national trade agreements outside the EU as it is an exclusive EU “competence”.

Good luck with that, says the Head of the WTO.

Fresh Start said:

EU State Aid rules impact what financial help we can give to businesses such as our steel industry. We have already been challenged on our Enterprise Investment Scheme which provides tax relief to those investing in small businesses. While capital adequacy changes have made banks less willing to invest in small businesses, the government’s scheme to help has been deemed state aid.

Restrictions on state aid are very obviously important in a single market to allow free competition. The problem is not with the rule, but with enforcement against certain Member States. Bank capital adequacy rules are imposed under the Basel Accords under which the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision makes recommendations on bank capital adequacy. The EU is the body that sets out those requirements for implementation in the EU, but they are exactly the same as for the rest of the G20. The same people complaining about bank capital adequacy requirements in this context are, I expect, in many cases, people who like to complain about reckless bankers.

Fresh Start said:

The Five Presidents’ Report also looks to harmonise our finance and banking system to the potential detriment of UK financial services, a key part of our national productivity".

A broad brush statement if ever I saw one! The UK has declined to take part in aspects of this plan that we don't like. Much of it doesn't apply to us as we are not in the Euro and never will be. Some of it is good stuff, the Capital Markets Union plan, in particular, that is the child of our Commissioner, Lord Hill and his largely British cabinet.

steveatesh said:

So status quo plus I would Say!

Source Fresh Start Conservative Home today.

[don4l]

cookie118 said:

Because we don't elect people who engage with the political process in the European Parliament. Our interests aren't being served by farage and UKIP (and Daniel hannan has a similarly dismal attendance record on votes).

If you were being cynical you could say that they are deliberately absent in order to give us less influence and strengthen the strength of leave as 'the eu keeps overruling us'. But I just think they've figured out they can be lazy and absent and still claim the expenses etc under the pretence of 'undermining from within'.

You don't appear to understand what the European Parliament (EP) is. It has very little influence on anything.

It does not have the power to enact legislation.

That power lies with the unelected commissioners.

I don't know about Farage, but suggesting that Hannan is lazy is just stupid.

Here is a list of his speaking engagements for the next week:-

31/05/2016 17:00 “Working with the EU: Britons and Brussels”
British Academy, London

31/05/2016 19:00 Hammersmith Vote Leave Rally
Assembly Hall, Hammersmith

02/06/2016 16:00 Berkhamsted Conservatives Speech
Berkhamsted Cricket Club, Berkhamsted

02/06/2016 16:00 Berkhamsted Conservatives: Daniel Hannan on Why We Should Leave the EU
Berkhamsted Cricket Club, Berkhamsted

02/06/2016 19:30 Buckingham Decides: the EU Referendum Debate
Royal Latin School, Buckingham

03/06/2016 - 04/06/2016 00:00 Daniel Hannan Belfast Visit
Belfast, Belfast

06/06/2016 20:00 Dartford Conservative Association EU Debate
Mick Jagger Centre, Dartford

That list doesn't include any TV appearances, or any of the pieces that he writes for various newspapers, both here and in the USA.

I suspect that you are just as wrong about Farage.

[don4l]

cookie118 said:

So if you were a uk fisherman would you be happy that your representative had been to only one committee meeting out of more than 40 and had missed a number of key votes and had then used your plight for political gain?

Where does this sudden concern for the fishermen come from?

Anyone who gives a damn about the fishermen will be voting out.

For a remainer to bring the fishermen into the discussion stinks of total hypocrisy.

[turbobloke]

The nature of the work that people like Farage and Hannan carry out is fine from my perspective but clearly not fine from that of others, this is due to differing expectations not the failings of Farage or Hannan in terms of their work ethic. As the work they do carry out is contrary to the views of their opponents, this in my view is why these opponents define 'work' and 'interest' and 'for us' narrowly in an attempt to fix the race. Such race fixing is transparent.

[turbobloke]

Following a post by Number 46 in the Brexit Poll thread:

News item on the latest poll said:

The pound plunged in value today after a poll showed the Leave camp has taken the lead in the EU referendum .

Voters were backing Brexit by 52 to 48 points in both an internet and telephone poll conducted by ICM for the Guardian.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pound-falls-after-shock-poll-8089662

Surely that should be SHOCK POLL! SHOCK POLL!

[FiF]

don4l said:

cookie118 said:

So if you were a uk fisherman would you be happy that your representative had been to only one committee meeting out of more than 40 and had missed a number of key votes and had then used your plight for political gain?

Where does this sudden concern for the fishermen come from?

Anyone who gives a damn about the fishermen will be voting out.

For a remainer to bring the fishermen into the discussion stinks of total hypocrisy.

Completely agree with you don4l, but they have more holes in their bucket than an EU fisheries policy, or indeed the net, and no idea how to fix it.

One for the oldies https://youtu.be/yD-ffhvefsw

[///ajd]

cookie118 said:

turbobloke said:

cookie118 said:

PRTVR said:

So you want people who turn up to meetings even though they have no power ?
You do understand what UKIP stands for ? This is democracy at work, you may not like it, understandable if you support the EU.

It might as well be the UK Indolent Party given the amount of work they do for us.

Work as defined by you and 'for us' as defined by you.

The work they do is fine as far as I'm concerned where their efforts are directed to getting the UK out of the EU, rather than toddle along to meetings about stuff handed down from the Commission as scraps to feed the minds of the willingly led in terms of the EU being worthy of the term 'democratic'.

So if you were a uk fisherman would you be happy that your representative had been to only one committee meeting out of more than 40 and had missed a number of key votes and had then used your plight for political gain?

An excellent point. Yet still he is defended to his last - completely ineffective - tantrum.

Farage : "rompey - who are you?"

EU 1 : "crickey, you'd have though he'd have looked some stuff up before he came? What does he want?"
EU 2 : "no idea, just keeps throwing toys of of his cot"

Farage : "hey fritz, watch me spit my dummy!"

EU1 : "what policy does that imply?"
EU2 : "no idea, it seems influence is not his strong suit here in the EU"

Amazing how some think this charade is 'good'. Its like celebrating being a bit dim.

[steveatesh]

Wonder how much this will affect PH:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/675535/EU-refe...



Article sub heading is :

"EUROPE’S elite have announced a sweeping crackdown on freedom of speech online which has been branded “lamentable and Orwellian” by pro-democracy campaigners"

Serious comment, thin end of totalitarian wedge or just a paternalistic EU looking out for us all?

[don4l]

turbobloke said:

Following a post by Number 46 in the Brexit Poll thread:

News item on the latest poll said:

The pound plunged in value today after a poll showed the Leave camp has taken the lead in the EU referendum .

Voters were backing Brexit by 52 to 48 points in both an internet and telephone poll conducted by ICM for the Guardian.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pound-falls-after-shock-poll-8089662

Surely that should be SHOCK POLL! SHOCK POLL!

Since January, the highest that the Pound has been against the Dollar was $1.47 on May 25th. Today it fell by 0.91% from $1.463 to $1.45.

The Pound's lowest value was on Feb 26th when it was worth $1.30.

So, as always with the Remainers, this story is complete balderdash. The Pound is actually very near its highest value for this year.

Still, this story will undoubtedly give the bedwetters palpitations.

[paulrockliffe]

///ajd said:

An excellent point. Yet still he is defended to his last - completely ineffective - tantrum.

Farage : "rompey - who are you?"

EU 1 : "crickey, you'd have though he'd have looked some stuff up before he came? What does he want?"
EU 2 : "no idea, just keeps throwing toys of of his cot"

Farage : "hey fritz, watch me spit my dummy!"

EU1 : "what policy does that imply?"
EU2 : "no idea, it seems influence is not his strong suit here in the EU"

Amazing how some think this charade is 'good'. Its like celebrating being a bit dim.

That's such lazy crap. If you can't elucidate the point Farage is making when he speaks and if you really think that the EU don't understand the point he's making you've lost the plot. Look at their faces, they understand perfectly. As you do.

[///ajd]

paulrockliffe said:

///ajd said:

An excellent point. Yet still he is defended to his last - completely ineffective - tantrum.

Farage : "rompey - who are you?"

EU 1 : "crickey, you'd have though he'd have looked some stuff up before he came? What does he want?"
EU 2 : "no idea, just keeps throwing toys of of his cot"

Farage : "hey fritz, watch me spit my dummy!"

EU1 : "what policy does that imply?"
EU2 : "no idea, it seems influence is not his strong suit here in the EU"

Amazing how some think this charade is 'good'. Its like celebrating being a bit dim.

That's such lazy crap. If you can't elucidate the point Farage is making when he speaks and if you really think that the EU don't understand the point he's making you've lost the plot. Look at their faces, they understand perfectly. As you do.

It certainly is lazy crap.

You seem to miss the point that I'm contrasting his pointless rant with actually doing something useful.

If you think his rant did anything other than get some little englanders wound up & shouting, you are very much mistaken. I'm genuinely sorry you think it did more than that, or if you feel that was worth the embarrassment.

[Norfolkit]

Mr_B said:

I asked that ages ago and got one mixed reply. No one directly said yes to it. The likes of ///ajd are still dreaming of 'reform from within', as he put it. No answer as to why this would happen after a yes vote and not during the negotiations that went before, what they think is actually likely to be able to be changed while the UK opts for being int he second stage part of the EU who doesn't want to go the direction of the EU itself, and so on.
I think this is the little bit of BS the remain side say to placate themselves, while knowing its not really going to happen. I said from day one ,its those people who say it needs serious reform, then saw it never happen, will vote remain anyway , who will make up that section that might tip in in favour of remain.

And I've said before, the EU will never reform unless something threatens it's very existence if it doesn't.
The Euro elite are doing far too well (for themselves) to contemplate any changes unless they're forced to.

[Sam All]

steveatesh said:

Wonder how much this will affect PH:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/675535/EU-refe...



Article sub heading is :

"EUROPE’S elite have announced a sweeping crackdown on freedom of speech online which has been branded “lamentable and Orwellian” by pro-democracy campaigners"

Serious comment, thin end of totalitarian wedge or just a paternalistic EU looking out for us all?

Since it is the EU that is at heart of this, we should have had Juncker in a TV debate - he will convince us.