The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2

[l354uge]

Ste1987 said:

Started a topic about EU laws and how they hinder us but it seems it doesn't warrant its own topic. Oh well, here goes:

A couple of the most prevalent comments I've seen in favour of Brexit is "taking back our country" or "making our own laws." Last time I checked we make most of our laws. Hell, even Scotland has some of it's own laws in a way. So what I want to know is are there any laws imposed by the EU that hinder our economy and individual daily lives?

A quick Google tells me that there are specific sectors that have great influence from the EU, including agriculture, fishing, external trade and the enviornment. Surely these are good things, no? Maintain sustainability?

I voted remain, but I'm willing to accept the majority decision and I'm not trying to start an arguement. I'm genuinely curious about this and feel I'm missing something.

Had one reply to it about how it affects the financial sector or something. That's fair enough, but how does this hinder us?

The EU gives £2billion a year in subsidies to UK farms, and access to the free european market, which are good things.
But as usual with the EU they screw it up, these subsidies are based on land ownership and environmental ratings, so rich farmers can buy more land and leave it, and receive a lot more than poorer farmers who use all their land for...farming! They also impose ridiculous laws which hamper farmers.

But these laws are nothing compared to the shambles that is the EU fishing policy. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/22/br... We hold such a high percentage of EUs fishing waters yet our 'quota' for fishing them is pathetic, I know we should keep fish stock sustainable but allowing other countries to fish our waters under this pretence is ridiculous. Iceland dropped its bid to join the EU because of this.

Trade, the EU imposes tariffs on countries outside the EU and across the world, this is to keep competition away from companies in the EU, this increases prices for customers and also encourages businesses inside europe to stagnate and rest on their laurels. Think of BL, they started off with no foreign competition, and settled on making inferior products at the detriment to development...other carmakers did a better job and once they we're allowed to import here in true numbers, wiped them off the map. We need competition to improve and develop. The idea of imposing a tariff on another country because its not in europe is in my opinion, inherently racist. Especially with the commonwealth countries we have had a relationship with a lot longer than even the EEC existed.

I think the EUs laws on the environment are well known, when unelected officials start telling people they can't buy a certain vacuum cleaner or lightbulbs because of its wattage its surprising it took this long for us to get peed off with the bureaucracy and nannying.

As a centrist I'm all about compromise so I'm not saying everything the EU did for us was awful and leaving them will be all sunshine and prosperity. But, I do believe now we are free of the EU and the politicians know this country want to be heard we can move ahead and lead the world in environmental issues, science and engineering and pure democracy. Starting with ditching first past the post!

[Ste1987]

CrutyRammers said:

Ste1987 said:

Started a topic about EU laws and how they hinder us but it seems it doesn't warrant its own topic. Oh well, here goes:

A couple of the most prevalent comments I've seen in favour of Brexit is "taking back our country" or "making our own laws." Last time I checked we make most of our laws. Hell, even Scotland has some of it's own laws in a way. So what I want to know is are there any laws imposed by the EU that hinder our economy and individual daily lives?

A quick Google tells me that there are specific sectors that have great influence from the EU, including agriculture, fishing, external trade and the enviornment. Surely these are good things, no? Maintain sustainability?

Google better . On fishing, for example, when we joined we gave up 80% of our fishing territories to the EU which destroyed our fishing industry. Then look at how the current quotas work and how they result in thousands of tons of edible fish being dumped in the sea, and nice little things like a single dutch ship having the rights to 25% of the catch in UK waters, which are of course landed outside of the UK.

The latest ports directive is another which is completely to the detriment of the UK. There are plenty more.

Yeah I did hear there was a protest to do with fishing regulations. Fair enough, but to me this is only the tip of the iceberg. There must be more to this, as I get the impression the majority who didn't want the EU to make our laws only had one thing in mind and that's deporting immigrants. Of course, that won't happen anyway because of our own human rights act, or am I wrong about that?

[Crush]

l354uge said:

I think the EUs laws on the environment are well known, when unelected officials start telling people they can't buy a certain vacuum cleaner or lightbulbs because of its wattage its surprising it took this long for us to get peed off with the bureaucracy and nannying.

Funnily enough my mum has just returned from the hairdresser. They voted Leave for amongst other things, the plan to ban hairdryers that are capable of drying hair

[Ste1987]

l354uge said:

Ste1987 said:

Started a topic about EU laws and how they hinder us but it seems it doesn't warrant its own topic. Oh well, here goes:

A couple of the most prevalent comments I've seen in favour of Brexit is "taking back our country" or "making our own laws." Last time I checked we make most of our laws. Hell, even Scotland has some of it's own laws in a way. So what I want to know is are there any laws imposed by the EU that hinder our economy and individual daily lives?

A quick Google tells me that there are specific sectors that have great influence from the EU, including agriculture, fishing, external trade and the enviornment. Surely these are good things, no? Maintain sustainability?

I voted remain, but I'm willing to accept the majority decision and I'm not trying to start an arguement. I'm genuinely curious about this and feel I'm missing something.

Had one reply to it about how it affects the financial sector or something. That's fair enough, but how does this hinder us?

The EU gives £2billion a year in subsidies to UK farms, and access to the free european market, which are good things.
But as usual with the EU they screw it up, these subsidies are based on land ownership and environmental ratings, so rich farmers can buy more land and leave it, and receive a lot more than poorer farmers who use all their land for...farming! They also impose ridiculous laws which hamper farmers.

But these laws are nothing compared to the shambles that is the EU fishing policy. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/22/br... We hold such a high percentage of EUs fishing waters yet our 'quota' for fishing them is pathetic, I know we should keep fish stock sustainable but allowing other countries to fish our waters under this pretence is ridiculous. Iceland dropped its bid to join the EU because of this.

Trade, the EU imposes tariffs on countries outside the EU and across the world, this is to keep competition away from companies in the EU, this increases prices for customers and also encourages businesses inside europe to stagnate and rest on their laurels. Think of BL, they started off with no foreign competition, and settled on making inferior products at the detriment to development...other carmakers did a better job and once they we're allowed to import here in true numbers, wiped them off the map. We need competition to improve and develop. The idea of imposing a tariff on another country because its not in europe is in my opinion, inherently racist. Especially with the commonwealth countries we have had a relationship with a lot longer than even the EEC existed.

I think the EUs laws on the environment are well known, when unelected officials start telling people they can't buy a certain vacuum cleaner or lightbulbs because of its wattage its surprising it took this long for us to get peed off with the bureaucracy and nannying.

As a centrist I'm all about compromise so I'm not saying everything the EU did for us was awful and leaving them will be all sunshine and prosperity. But, I do believe now we are free of the EU and the politicians know this country want to be heard we can move ahead and lead the world in environmental issues, science and engineering and pure democracy. Starting with ditching first past the post!

Some good points. Hopefully we don't end up going backwards in such factors

[chrispmartha]

Crush said:

l354uge said:

I think the EUs laws on the environment are well known, when unelected officials start telling people they can't buy a certain vacuum cleaner or lightbulbs because of its wattage its surprising it took this long for us to get peed off with the bureaucracy and nannying.

Funnily enough my mum has just returned from the hairdresser. They voted Leave for amongst other things, the plan to ban hairdryers that are capable of drying hair

Ironically ithe legislation would most likely to lead to more efficient hair dryers that dry hair quicker - that's what happens. Look at cars, emissions has created engines that are morepowerful whilst being more fuel efficient

[Ste1987]

chrispmartha said:

Crush said:

l354uge said:

I think the EUs laws on the environment are well known, when unelected officials start telling people they can't buy a certain vacuum cleaner or lightbulbs because of its wattage its surprising it took this long for us to get peed off with the bureaucracy and nannying.

Funnily enough my mum has just returned from the hairdresser. They voted Leave for amongst other things, the plan to ban hairdryers that are capable of drying hair

Ironically ithe legislation would most likely to lead to more efficient hair dryers that dry hair quicker - that's what happens. Look at cars, emissions has created engines that are morepowerful whilst being more fuel efficient

I;m sure many PH'ers resent that

[l354uge]

Ste1987 said:

Yeah I did hear there was a protest to do with fishing regulations. Fair enough, but to me this is only the tip of the iceberg. There must be more to this, as I get the impression the majority who didn't want the EU to make our laws only had one thing in mind and that's deporting immigrants. Of course, that won't happen anyway because of our own human rights act, or am I wrong about that?

You get that impression because thats what the media is peddling.
I was watching the news yesterday, and they only interviewed two leave voters in barnsley, both were wearing England football tops and not to sound nasty, a bit rough. So of course, they say its just about "getting the immigrants out and making Britain Great Britain again" ignoring the fact he's about to go home and order an indian (and complain when a polish rather than a brown chap delivers it), and probably see a Gurkha on the street and brandish him as a member of ISIS. These people are why satire takes no skill these days....

There are extremes on both sides, but you shouldn't label people such as myself who couldn't care less about EU Immigration but voted leave anyway, we're a lot less interesting to the media as we don't fit their agenda.

And no, we won't just box up every migrant here and send them home. That would put ridiculous strain on the areas that rely on them, aswell as being immoral. We don't even know if we'll be exiting the free market yet!

Edited by l354uge on Saturday 25th June 14:03

[alfie2244]

chrispmartha said:

Look at cars, emissions has created engines that are morepowerful whilst being more fuel efficient

if you fiddle the data that is..only kidding

[chrispmartha]

Ste1987 said:

chrispmartha said:

Crush said:

l354uge said:

I think the EUs laws on the environment are well known, when unelected officials start telling people they can't buy a certain vacuum cleaner or lightbulbs because of its wattage its surprising it took this long for us to get peed off with the bureaucracy and nannying.

Funnily enough my mum has just returned from the hairdresser. They voted Leave for amongst other things, the plan to ban hairdryers that are capable of drying hair

Ironically ithe legislation would most likely to lead to more efficient hair dryers that dry hair quicker - that's what happens. Look at cars, emissions has created engines that are morepowerful whilst being more fuel efficient

I;m sure many PH'ers resent that

Oh I'm sure too

[Burwood]

chrispmartha said:

Crush said:

l354uge said:

I think the EUs laws on the environment are well known, when unelected officials start telling people they can't buy a certain vacuum cleaner or lightbulbs because of its wattage its surprising it took this long for us to get peed off with the bureaucracy and nannying.

Funnily enough my mum has just returned from the hairdresser. They voted Leave for amongst other things, the plan to ban hairdryers that are capable of drying hair

Ironically ithe legislation would most likely to lead to more efficient hair dryers that dry hair quicker - that's what happens. Look at cars, emissions has created engines that are morepowerful whilst being more fuel efficient

Ag what cost. My research says higher cost and more complex. The consumer pays in the end

[CrutyRammers]

Ste1987 said:

Yeah I did hear there was a protest to do with fishing regulations. Fair enough, but to me this is only the tip of the iceberg. There must be more to this, as I get the impression the majority who didn't want the EU to make our laws only had one thing in mind and that's deporting immigrants. Of course, that won't happen anyway because of our own human rights act, or am I wrong about that?

I can't say, I can't see into the minds of everyone. Certainly isn't the case for me and most of the leavers on here who have expressed a preference though.
Honestly I don't want to go through it all again as it's been argued on this thread and the previous one for months, but you will find plenty of answers if you read through it, though I appreciate it's rather long.
Other than that, try EUreferendum.com, or dan hannan's blogs and speaches, for a flavour.

[chrispmartha]

Burwood said:

chrispmartha said:

Crush said:

l354uge said:

I think the EUs laws on the environment are well known, when unelected officials start telling people they can't buy a certain vacuum cleaner or lightbulbs because of its wattage its surprising it took this long for us to get peed off with the bureaucracy and nannying.

Funnily enough my mum has just returned from the hairdresser. They voted Leave for amongst other things, the plan to ban hairdryers that are capable of drying hair

Ironically ithe legislation would most likely to lead to more efficient hair dryers that dry hair quicker - that's what happens. Look at cars, emissions has created engines that are morepowerful whilst being more fuel efficient

Ag what cost. My research says higher cost and more complex. The consumer pays in the end

At what cost? Its called progress, things that can do what they need to do in the most efficient way is a good thing i realise that will be an unpopular opinion on here though ;-)

[l354uge]

Burwood said:

chrispmartha said:

Crush said:

l354uge said:

I think the EUs laws on the environment are well known, when unelected officials start telling people they can't buy a certain vacuum cleaner or lightbulbs because of its wattage its surprising it took this long for us to get peed off with the bureaucracy and nannying.

Funnily enough my mum has just returned from the hairdresser. They voted Leave for amongst other things, the plan to ban hairdryers that are capable of drying hair

Ironically ithe legislation would most likely to lead to more efficient hair dryers that dry hair quicker - that's what happens. Look at cars, emissions has created engines that are morepowerful whilst being more fuel efficient

Ag what cost. My research says higher cost and more complex. The consumer pays in the end

Again, shortsightedness by the EU. New engines may give out better numbers in the tests but no-one really sees the economy or emissions in real life, the quest for improving economy and emissions, whilst retaining drivability has given has a lot of cool technologies, but has also significantly shortened the working life of these engines. New engines are designed to do 150,000Km, thats it. (Stated in the technical documentation of a major OEMs brand new engine design, id probably be risking my job if I said which one), you can't tell me having to change an engine or whole vehicle 2 or 3 times sooner than we used to is worth an extra "40g/km" exhaust Co2.
Don't get me started on "zero emissions" electric vehicles...

[Ste1987]

l354uge said:

Ste1987 said:

Yeah I did hear there was a protest to do with fishing regulations. Fair enough, but to me this is only the tip of the iceberg. There must be more to this, as I get the impression the majority who didn't want the EU to make our laws only had one thing in mind and that's deporting immigrants. Of course, that won't happen anyway because of our own human rights act, or am I wrong about that?

You get that impression because thats what the media is peddling.
I was watching the news yesterday, and they only interviewed two leave voters in barnsley, both were wearing England football tops and not to sound nasty, a bit rough. So of course, they say its just about "getting the immigrants out and making Britain Great Britain again" ignoring the fact he's about to go home and order an indian, and probably see a Gurkha on the street and brandish him as a member of ISIS.
There are extremes on both sides, but you shouldn't label people such as myself who couldn't care less about EU Immigration but voted leave anyway, we're a lot less interesting to the media as we don't fit their agenda.

And no, we won't just box up every migrant here and send them home. That would put ridiculous strain on the areas that rely on them, aswell as being immoral. We don't even know if we'll be exiting the free market yet!

Yeah apologies for my comment. It's pretty frustrating when all I see is people stating their reasons and not backing those reasons up, so all I can do is make assumptions. I'm willing to accept the majority decision and really hope it will work and I can't help but ask questions to get some clarity and feel better about the situation

[pingu393]

Historic USD-GBP rates...
http://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates-grap...

Historic EUR-GBP rates...
http://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates-grap...

Historic Gold Prices (XAU-GBP)...
http://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates-grap...

In all three cases, it has been worse. Keep calm and have a cuppa tea .

[Burwood]

l354uge said:

Burwood said:

chrispmartha said:

Crush said:

l354uge said:

I think the EUs laws on the environment are well known, when unelected officials start telling people they can't buy a certain vacuum cleaner or lightbulbs because of its wattage its surprising it took this long for us to get peed off with the bureaucracy and nannying.

Funnily enough my mum has just returned from the hairdresser. They voted Leave for amongst other things, the plan to ban hairdryers that are capable of drying hair

Ironically ithe legislation would most likely to lead to more efficient hair dryers that dry hair quicker - that's what happens. Look at cars, emissions has created engines that are morepowerful whilst being more fuel efficient

Ag what cost. My research says higher cost and more complex. The consumer pays in the end

Again, shortsightedness by the EU. New engines may give out better numbers in the tests but no-one really sees the economy or emissions in real life, the quest for improving economy and emissions, whilst retaining drivability has given has a lot of cool technologies, but has also significantly shortened the working life of these engines. New engines are designed to do 150,000Km, thats it. (Stated in the technical documentation of a major OEMs brand new engine design, id probably be risking my job if I said which one), you can't tell me having to change an engine or whole vehicle 2 or 3 times sooner than we used to is worth an extra "40g/km" exhaust Co2.
Don't get me started on "zero emissions" electric vehicles...

Exactly what I was told when major and expensive parts failed on my wife's car just outside warranty. Apparently not prematurely. Only designed yo last that long and all because of this drive I emissions.

[l354uge]

Ste1987 said:

l354uge said:

Ste1987 said:

Yeah I did hear there was a protest to do with fishing regulations. Fair enough, but to me this is only the tip of the iceberg. There must be more to this, as I get the impression the majority who didn't want the EU to make our laws only had one thing in mind and that's deporting immigrants. Of course, that won't happen anyway because of our own human rights act, or am I wrong about that?

You get that impression because thats what the media is peddling.
I was watching the news yesterday, and they only interviewed two leave voters in barnsley, both were wearing England football tops and not to sound nasty, a bit rough. So of course, they say its just about "getting the immigrants out and making Britain Great Britain again" ignoring the fact he's about to go home and order an indian, and probably see a Gurkha on the street and brandish him as a member of ISIS.
There are extremes on both sides, but you shouldn't label people such as myself who couldn't care less about EU Immigration but voted leave anyway, we're a lot less interesting to the media as we don't fit their agenda.

And no, we won't just box up every migrant here and send them home. That would put ridiculous strain on the areas that rely on them, aswell as being immoral. We don't even know if we'll be exiting the free market yet!

Yeah apologies for my comment. It's pretty frustrating when all I see is people stating their reasons and not backing those reasons up, so all I can do is make assumptions. I'm willing to accept the majority decision and really hope it will work and I can't help but ask questions to get some clarity and feel better about the situation

No worries, glad to see someone who voted remain concede that democracy worked against their opinion and they're willing to honour that decision. Wish others were as understanding.

[don4l]

Zod said:

don4l said:

It was a fantastic day.

The weather could not have been better. It wasn't too hot, but I spent the day in a short sleeved shirt.

There were many highlights. I hadn't thought that I would enjoy rally driving. However, as in any sport, watching an expert is always rewarding. Some of the drivers were awesome.

They had a hillclimb for modern supercars that had some real highlights, and also some lowlights. There were some electric supercars that went past almost silently. I said that I was going to demand a partial refund of my ticket price (which was actually free). All of a sudden, all the people around me joined in with agreement. Nobody had a good word to say about these things.

The real highlight for me was the DB11.

Before today, I thought that you could not make a better looking car than the DB9.

I had seen photos, and I thought that it looked good.


Dear God! It looks better in the flesh than you could ever imagine.

I really don't understand it, but I actually got a little bit emotional just looking at it.

For people who don't get the Aston thing, I would recommend a visit to the Jaguar stand. They had a fantastic F type car. It does 0-60 in under 4 secs. It has a huge boot for a GT. It has all the mod cons.

The salesman asked me to guess its price. I know that Jags are fantastic value. So I said £120k. The salesman looked disappointed, and said that it was actually £115.

He was right to look disappointed, because I do not believe that any other manufacturer could produce such a car for less than £220k. Maybe £250k would be a fair price.

Audi had an interesting car on their stand. IIRC, it is a special version of the R8. 0-60 was less than 3s. (2.3 IIRC).

They will only make 24 of them. £880,000 each.

At least, beyond our nationally and humanity, don4l, you and I share a love of Aston Martins.

True.

Humanity?

Nice to see that you are magnanimous in defeat.

[Ste1987]

l354uge said:

Ste1987 said:

l354uge said:

Ste1987 said:

Yeah I did hear there was a protest to do with fishing regulations. Fair enough, but to me this is only the tip of the iceberg. There must be more to this, as I get the impression the majority who didn't want the EU to make our laws only had one thing in mind and that's deporting immigrants. Of course, that won't happen anyway because of our own human rights act, or am I wrong about that?

You get that impression because thats what the media is peddling.
I was watching the news yesterday, and they only interviewed two leave voters in barnsley, both were wearing England football tops and not to sound nasty, a bit rough. So of course, they say its just about "getting the immigrants out and making Britain Great Britain again" ignoring the fact he's about to go home and order an indian, and probably see a Gurkha on the street and brandish him as a member of ISIS.
There are extremes on both sides, but you shouldn't label people such as myself who couldn't care less about EU Immigration but voted leave anyway, we're a lot less interesting to the media as we don't fit their agenda.

And no, we won't just box up every migrant here and send them home. That would put ridiculous strain on the areas that rely on them, aswell as being immoral. We don't even know if we'll be exiting the free market yet!

Yeah apologies for my comment. It's pretty frustrating when all I see is people stating their reasons and not backing those reasons up, so all I can do is make assumptions. I'm willing to accept the majority decision and really hope it will work and I can't help but ask questions to get some clarity and feel better about the situation

No worries, glad to see someone who voted remain concede that democracy worked against their opinion and they're willing to honour that decision. Wish others were as understanding.

If Jeremy Clarkson is willing to make it work, so am I

https://twitter.com/JeremyClarkson/status/74635079...

[Burwood]

Ste1987 said:

l354uge said:

Ste1987 said:

l354uge said:

Ste1987 said:

Yeah I did hear there was a protest to do with fishing regulations. Fair enough, but to me this is only the tip of the iceberg. There must be more to this, as I get the impression the majority who didn't want the EU to make our laws only had one thing in mind and that's deporting immigrants. Of course, that won't happen anyway because of our own human rights act, or am I wrong about that?

You get that impression because thats what the media is peddling.
I was watching the news yesterday, and they only interviewed two leave voters in barnsley, both were wearing England football tops and not to sound nasty, a bit rough. So of course, they say its just about "getting the immigrants out and making Britain Great Britain again" ignoring the fact he's about to go home and order an indian, and probably see a Gurkha on the street and brandish him as a member of ISIS.
There are extremes on both sides, but you shouldn't label people such as myself who couldn't care less about EU Immigration but voted leave anyway, we're a lot less interesting to the media as we don't fit their agenda.

And no, we won't just box up every migrant here and send them home. That would put ridiculous strain on the areas that rely on them, aswell as being immoral. We don't even know if we'll be exiting the free market yet!

Yeah apologies for my comment. It's pretty frustrating when all I see is people stating their reasons and not backing those reasons up, so all I can do is make assumptions. I'm willing to accept the majority decision and really hope it will work and I can't help but ask questions to get some clarity and feel better about the situation

No worries, glad to see someone who voted remain concede that democracy worked against their opinion and they're willing to honour that decision. Wish others were as understanding.

If Jeremy Clarkson is willing to make it work, so am I

https://twitter.com/JeremyClarkson/status/74635079...

Poor JC. Life just got so tough lol