The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2
Discussion
s2art said:
wc98 said:
tarnished said:
s2art said:
That is fantasy. Scotland, unlike Denmark, was never in the EU. If Scotland seceded, like Greenland, it would not be in the EU and would have to apply to join. And it would not meet the joining criteria.
Heard this a couple of times and it sounds like a key factor keeping the Union together. Out of interest, which criteria are they most likely not to meet?haven't checked any further, but the sustainable public finances punts it right out the window.
http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/international/...
Breaking up the UK would be a right gas for the jilted EU.
confused_buyer said:
Well, the question posed was regarding Scotland and the EU.
Scotland has several options:
1. Hold a referendum before the UK leaves the EU. As was made clear, by the EU, in 2014 this would mean leaving the EU.
2. Wait until the UK leaves the EU in which case, regardless of whether Scotland eventually leaves the UK or not, it still leaves the EU.
In both scenarios Scotland is leaving the EU.
If independent it could, of course, apply to join as an independent country. It would appear it meets virtually no criteria to be successful in that application. This could also mean cutting its self off from rUK with whom it's economy is totally integrated.
Either way, as far as the EU is concerned, Scotland is stuffed.
In your opinion, the EU will decide ultimatelyScotland has several options:
1. Hold a referendum before the UK leaves the EU. As was made clear, by the EU, in 2014 this would mean leaving the EU.
2. Wait until the UK leaves the EU in which case, regardless of whether Scotland eventually leaves the UK or not, it still leaves the EU.
In both scenarios Scotland is leaving the EU.
If independent it could, of course, apply to join as an independent country. It would appear it meets virtually no criteria to be successful in that application. This could also mean cutting its self off from rUK with whom it's economy is totally integrated.
Either way, as far as the EU is concerned, Scotland is stuffed.
Strocky said:
confused_buyer said:
Well, the question posed was regarding Scotland and the EU.
Scotland has several options:
1. Hold a referendum before the UK leaves the EU. As was made clear, by the EU, in 2014 this would mean leaving the EU.
2. Wait until the UK leaves the EU in which case, regardless of whether Scotland eventually leaves the UK or not, it still leaves the EU.
In both scenarios Scotland is leaving the EU.
If independent it could, of course, apply to join as an independent country. It would appear it meets virtually no criteria to be successful in that application. This could also mean cutting its self off from rUK with whom it's economy is totally integrated.
Either way, as far as the EU is concerned, Scotland is stuffed.
In your opinion, the EU will decide ultimatelyScotland has several options:
1. Hold a referendum before the UK leaves the EU. As was made clear, by the EU, in 2014 this would mean leaving the EU.
2. Wait until the UK leaves the EU in which case, regardless of whether Scotland eventually leaves the UK or not, it still leaves the EU.
In both scenarios Scotland is leaving the EU.
If independent it could, of course, apply to join as an independent country. It would appear it meets virtually no criteria to be successful in that application. This could also mean cutting its self off from rUK with whom it's economy is totally integrated.
Either way, as far as the EU is concerned, Scotland is stuffed.
Strocky said:
In your opinion, the EU will decide ultimately
It is in their rules. If, and it is a big if, they didn't have a shed load of problems and Greece to deal with they might bend them and allow Scotland in just to annoy the UK. However, whilst it may appeal to some in the EU, I suspect they'll come to the conclusion that they need another basket case like a hole in the head. Why would countries which get net payments from the EU want to see their share of a diminishing pie cut to accommodate a needy Scotland? Why would net contributors who are probably going to see their contributions up to cover the UK's want to pay more to cover Scotland?
The fundamental questions to win a referendum have also just got harder. To currency, EU & deficit you can now also add extra deficit and a "hard" border with the UK.
Unless Sturgeon can come up with some sensible answers she'll lose again. She knows it, even if some in the SNP refuse to recognise it. She is way smarter than Salmond.
Edited by confused_buyer on Saturday 25th June 17:59
Strocky said:
s2art said:
LOL. There no chance whatsoever that Scotland would vote to leave the UK when we are not in the EU. None whatsoever.
Maybe, but whose to say Scotland will be out of the EU even when England & Wales are?http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-scottis...
Scotland has never been in the EU. The UK has. And the UK has just voted to leave it. For now, that is the direction.
During the independence referendum the only even remote chance that you could stand on your own two feet without the subsidies you get from the rest of the UK was oil. And the price of oil is now on its arse. Exactly where Scotland's economy would now be even if you'd gained independence. Even if the SNP could spell fiscal responsibility.
The EU has deep, deep problems. With the UK leaving it's second largest net contributor has gone. They have a 12bn or more hole to sort out now in their finances, and that's on top of whatever hole in their budget they've been keeping quiet for the last month or so. With no Barnett formula, and nowhere near enough $s from oil, even if the EU were prepared to break all the other entry criteria Scotland as a standalone nation (even IF the majority of Scots wanted to go it alone, which I seriously doubt) would be about as welcome as a fart in an astronaut suit.
The SNP are being opportunist again (no surprise). Get everyone looking over at the question of independence once more but ignoring what a good job they're doing of running Scotland.
There should be no more referenda until we at least have a fully negotiated position. At least. Part of me thinks we should just hold a Scottish one now just to get another hapless SNP leader out of the way. But then that would disrespect the 55.3% of Scots who voted no. Just as you did throughout your referendum and have done ever since.
Meanwhile, Sturgeon would be far better off getting her government focussing on getting Scotland's finances in decent health. And perhaps wondering why she could not muster another 630k Scottish people to vote Remain, which would have kept the whole of the UK in. Another 630k voters would still have meant a marginally lower turnout than the independence referendum. Maybe Scotland as a whole cared less about the EU position than it did about the UK position?
So quit moaning about the English, and start looking on your own doorstep for reasons why these things happen. Not enough SCOTS voted for independence. Not enough SCOTS voted to Remain in the EU. What does that tell you?
Murph7355 said:
Strocky said:
s2art said:
LOL. There no chance whatsoever that Scotland would vote to leave the UK when we are not in the EU. None whatsoever.
Maybe, but whose to say Scotland will be out of the EU even when England & Wales are?http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-scottis...
Scotland has never been in the EU. The UK has. And the UK has just voted to leave it. For now, that is the direction.
During the independence referendum the only even remote chance that you could stand on your own two feet without the subsidies you get from the rest of the UK was oil. And the price of oil is now on its arse. Exactly where Scotland's economy would now be even if you'd gained independence. Even if the SNP could spell fiscal responsibility.
The EU has deep, deep problems. With the UK leaving it's second largest net contributor has gone. They have a 12bn or more hole to sort out now in their finances, and that's on top of whatever hole in their budget they've been keeping quiet for the last month or so. With no Barnett formula, and nowhere near enough $s from oil, even if the EU were prepared to break all the other entry criteria Scotland as a standalone nation (even IF the majority of Scots wanted to go it alone, which I seriously doubt) would be about as welcome as a fart in an astronaut suit.
The SNP are being opportunist again (no surprise). Get everyone looking over at the question of independence once more but ignoring what a good job they're doing of running Scotland.
There should be no more referenda until we at least have a fully negotiated position. At least. Part of me thinks we should just hold a Scottish one now just to get another hapless SNP leader out of the way. But then that would disrespect the 55.3% of Scots who voted no. Just as you did throughout your referendum and have done ever since.
Meanwhile, Sturgeon would be far better off getting her government focussing on getting Scotland's finances in decent health. And perhaps wondering why she could not muster another 630k Scottish people to vote Remain, which would have kept the whole of the UK in. Another 630k voters would still have meant a marginally lower turnout than the independence referendum. Maybe Scotland as a whole cared less about the EU position than it did about the UK position?
So quit moaning about the English, and start looking on your own doorstep for reasons why these things happen. Not enough SCOTS voted for independence. Not enough SCOTS voted to Remain in the EU. What does that tell you?
minimoog said:
don'tbesilly said:
minimoog said:
Burwood said:
good point-the days of the tail wagging the dog are over.
And the days of waving the cock have begun.don4l said:
You stand ready????
Do sod off... tossers!
You have a £65Bn trade surplus with us. Wake up and smell the coffee. We will let you know if, and when we want to "negotiate".
Initially, I was not very happy with Cameron's resignation. I was looking forward to seeing the removal vans next Tuesday.
However, I now hope that he does stay in office until October.
While Cameron is still in office, they have no one to negotiate with. Each day that passes will give them an opportunity to consider the effects of losing a huge contributor. Each day that passes raises the possibility that another country will grant its people the right to express their opinion. Each day that passes gives Volkswagen, Mercedes and BMW another chance to explain to Merkel that she must negotiate a trade deal with the UK.
The fear is palpable, and still they act like they are in charge. What a bunch of utterly clueless gobs
tes.
The Volkswagen share price fell 5.5% yesterday.
BMW fell 7.5% and is at the same price as 5 years ago.
Daimler (Mercedes) fell 8%.
The French (CAC) stock market fell 8%.
The IBEX (Spain) fell 12%.
The FTSE dropped 3%... to the same level that it was a week ago.
So, Schulz, Junker and Tusk... tell us why we should negotiate? You have until the 25th of June 2018 to come up with a good reason. From June 26th, 10% duty will be applied to all German cars.
Now, do me a favour and sod off. There is some footie on the telly.
You have now. You probably missed it before but it's fully priapic now.Do sod off... tossers!
You have a £65Bn trade surplus with us. Wake up and smell the coffee. We will let you know if, and when we want to "negotiate".
Initially, I was not very happy with Cameron's resignation. I was looking forward to seeing the removal vans next Tuesday.
However, I now hope that he does stay in office until October.
While Cameron is still in office, they have no one to negotiate with. Each day that passes will give them an opportunity to consider the effects of losing a huge contributor. Each day that passes raises the possibility that another country will grant its people the right to express their opinion. Each day that passes gives Volkswagen, Mercedes and BMW another chance to explain to Merkel that she must negotiate a trade deal with the UK.
The fear is palpable, and still they act like they are in charge. What a bunch of utterly clueless gobs
tes.The Volkswagen share price fell 5.5% yesterday.
BMW fell 7.5% and is at the same price as 5 years ago.
Daimler (Mercedes) fell 8%.
The French (CAC) stock market fell 8%.
The IBEX (Spain) fell 12%.
The FTSE dropped 3%... to the same level that it was a week ago.
So, Schulz, Junker and Tusk... tell us why we should negotiate? You have until the 25th of June 2018 to come up with a good reason. From June 26th, 10% duty will be applied to all German cars.
Now, do me a favour and sod off. There is some footie on the telly.
Wadeski said:
s2art said:
wc98 said:
tarnished said:
s2art said:
That is fantasy. Scotland, unlike Denmark, was never in the EU. If Scotland seceded, like Greenland, it would not be in the EU and would have to apply to join. And it would not meet the joining criteria.
Heard this a couple of times and it sounds like a key factor keeping the Union together. Out of interest, which criteria are they most likely not to meet?haven't checked any further, but the sustainable public finances punts it right out the window.
http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/international/...
Breaking up the UK would be a right gas for the jilted EU.
minimoog said:
don'tbesilly said:
minimoog said:
Burwood said:
good point-the days of the tail wagging the dog are over.
And the days of waving the cock have begun.don4l said:
You stand ready????
Do sod off... tossers!
You have a £65Bn trade surplus with us. Wake up and smell the coffee. We will let you know if, and when we want to "negotiate".
Initially, I was not very happy with Cameron's resignation. I was looking forward to seeing the removal vans next Tuesday.
However, I now hope that he does stay in office until October.
While Cameron is still in office, they have no one to negotiate with. Each day that passes will give them an opportunity to consider the effects of losing a huge contributor. Each day that passes raises the possibility that another country will grant its people the right to express their opinion. Each day that passes gives Volkswagen, Mercedes and BMW another chance to explain to Merkel that she must negotiate a trade deal with the UK.
The fear is palpable, and still they act like they are in charge. What a bunch of utterly clueless gobstes.
The Volkswagen share price fell 5.5% yesterday.
BMW fell 7.5% and is at the same price as 5 years ago.
Daimler (Mercedes) fell 8%.
The French (CAC) stock market fell 8%.
The IBEX (Spain) fell 12%.
The FTSE dropped 3%... to the same level that it was a week ago.
So, Schulz, Junker and Tusk... tell us why we should negotiate? You have until the 25th of June 2018 to come up with a good reason. From June 26th, 10% duty will be applied to all German cars.
Now, do me a favour and sod off. There is some footie on the telly.
You have now. You probably missed it before but it's fully priapic now.Do sod off... tossers!
You have a £65Bn trade surplus with us. Wake up and smell the coffee. We will let you know if, and when we want to "negotiate".
Initially, I was not very happy with Cameron's resignation. I was looking forward to seeing the removal vans next Tuesday.
However, I now hope that he does stay in office until October.
While Cameron is still in office, they have no one to negotiate with. Each day that passes will give them an opportunity to consider the effects of losing a huge contributor. Each day that passes raises the possibility that another country will grant its people the right to express their opinion. Each day that passes gives Volkswagen, Mercedes and BMW another chance to explain to Merkel that she must negotiate a trade deal with the UK.
The fear is palpable, and still they act like they are in charge. What a bunch of utterly clueless gobs
tes.The Volkswagen share price fell 5.5% yesterday.
BMW fell 7.5% and is at the same price as 5 years ago.
Daimler (Mercedes) fell 8%.
The French (CAC) stock market fell 8%.
The IBEX (Spain) fell 12%.
The FTSE dropped 3%... to the same level that it was a week ago.
So, Schulz, Junker and Tusk... tell us why we should negotiate? You have until the 25th of June 2018 to come up with a good reason. From June 26th, 10% duty will be applied to all German cars.
Now, do me a favour and sod off. There is some footie on the telly.
I'm simply suggesting that we adopt a robust negotiating position so that we can get the best deal for Britain. Surely, we can all agree that this is what we want?
I note that some Remainers are still predicting gloom and doom.
There is no point in spreading fear at this stage. We are leaving, and Britain will be free to take her rightful place on the world stage.
Once again, the sight of the British foreign minister on the evening news will be a common sight. We will get to see the PM at international trade talks.
If you want to know which side engaged in willy waving, then here is a reminder:-
I don't remember seeing any Remainers condemning this appalling behaviour.
I've been sneered at, I've been called "old" (as if there was something wrong with that), uneducated, pale, bigoted, and a racist(I'm foreign).
Isn't it time that we moved on?
The reason that your side lost is simple. You were wrong. Because of this you had to resort to lies. This isn't willy waving. It is a simple statement of fact.
When you suggest that taking a robust negotiating position is willy waving, you are wrong again.
Let's move on.
don4l said:
There is no willy waving in the post above.
The urban dictionary defines willy waving thus:Willy Waver
n. An unbearable male show-off. British slang.
"Dave is such a bloody willy waver."
- show-off #peacock #idiot #moron #tard
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 25th June 19:22
desolate said:
don4l said:
There is no willy waving in the post above.
The urban dictionary defines willy waving thus:Willy Waver
n. An unbearable male show-off. British slang.
"Dave is such a bloody willy waver."
- show-off #peacock #idiot #moron #tard
Edited by desolate on Saturday 25th June 19:22
When John Major lost the 1997 election, there were no protesters on the streets.
When Tony Blair won a second term, there were no protests.
However, when Winky lost, the lefties came out in force. Yesterday, we had the ugly spectacle of Remainers jeering and booing Boris.
Do lefties not like democracy, or can you not cope with being wrong?
When the Conservatives lose, they accept their defeat gracefully.
Why can you not act with the same dignity?
You lost. Accept it, and let's move on.
The important thing now is that we put Britain first.
don4l said:
Trust me.
Watch Tusk, Schulz and Junker change their tune over the next few days. They are currently stuck between a rock and a hard place. Other countries are already raising the prospect of referenda, and the next "final" Greek bailout is due in a few weeks. The whole thing is collapsing around them. They would love to "make an example" of Britain to deter other countries, but our trade deficit makes that impossible.
Look at the stock market info that I posted earlier. The Brexit vote has had a devastating impact on European stock markets, while the FTSE is doing very well, thank you.
They have far more to lose than we do. Our negotiating stance should reflect that.
Watch Tusk, Schulz and Junker change their tune over the next few days. They are currently stuck between a rock and a hard place. Other countries are already raising the prospect of referenda, and the next "final" Greek bailout is due in a few weeks. The whole thing is collapsing around them. They would love to "make an example" of Britain to deter other countries, but our trade deficit makes that impossible.
Look at the stock market info that I posted earlier. The Brexit vote has had a devastating impact on European stock markets, while the FTSE is doing very well, thank you.
They have far more to lose than we do. Our negotiating stance should reflect that.
Interesting flip on the country back soundbite
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/i-...
Spoke to some friends in NHS today and they are finding the EU and non-EU migrants they work with feel very uncomfortable for the first time in this country - some who have been here over twenty years.
They also have picked up on the feeling that these migrants may infact choose to leave anyway as a result; very sad.
Its not clear whether Farage and his cronies would try and evict any current migrants, but with the atmosphere they have created that may not even be necessary and they will leave anyway due to the toxicity. Just what our NHS needs.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/i-...
Spoke to some friends in NHS today and they are finding the EU and non-EU migrants they work with feel very uncomfortable for the first time in this country - some who have been here over twenty years.
They also have picked up on the feeling that these migrants may infact choose to leave anyway as a result; very sad.
Its not clear whether Farage and his cronies would try and evict any current migrants, but with the atmosphere they have created that may not even be necessary and they will leave anyway due to the toxicity. Just what our NHS needs.
Edited by ///ajd on Saturday 25th June 21:25
///ajd said:
Interesting flip on the country back soundbite
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/i-...
Spoke to some friends in NHS today and they are finding the EU and non-EU migrants they work with feel very uncomfortable for the first time in this country - some who have been here over twenty years.
They also have picked up on the feeling that these migrants may infact choose to leave; very sad.
Its not clear Farage and his cronies wouod try and evict current migrants, but with the atmosphere they have created that may not even be necessary.
That's naughty.....you know as well as I do that anyone legally here can stay here and that's as clear as the nose on your face - end of. I might not agree with much, if anything, you post but I never had you down as a fool.http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/i-...
Spoke to some friends in NHS today and they are finding the EU and non-EU migrants they work with feel very uncomfortable for the first time in this country - some who have been here over twenty years.
They also have picked up on the feeling that these migrants may infact choose to leave; very sad.
Its not clear Farage and his cronies wouod try and evict current migrants, but with the atmosphere they have created that may not even be necessary.
Don't agree with you NHS comments either but won't trade 2nd hand comments / views.
///ajd said:
Its not clear Farage and his cronies wouod try and evict current migrants,
You're 'subtle' and insidious comments are becoming far too easy to spot recently.Farage neither has the power or authority to do what you imply, and it has never at any point been suggested by anyone on the 'Leave' side that migrants who are legally in this country would be deported/evicted.
If you disagree, please point me in the direction of an authoritative link that supports your implication.
If you were a true friend you would have put your friends mind at rest by calming their alleged fears, instead you come on here spouting your perfidious bile.
Give it up, your machiavellian comments are becoming tiresome.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff