The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2
Discussion
EddieSteadyGo said:
loafer123 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
paulrockliffe said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
If only life were as simple as your analysis would suggest.
Lets take an example (which happens to be true). Lets say the UK Government could help UK companies gain contracts in Turkey worth tens of millions by offering some warm words of encouragement to the Turkish government - would that be worthwhile?
It might take a 3 day visit, a few speeches, a couple of official dinners meeting Turkish dignitaries.
And in return our companies are able to compete and win large contracts, employing, hundreds of jobs, all with UK taxes paid on the money.
Cameron has to represent what is best for the UK overall, and that sometimes means offering support politically, even though domestically it might sound strange.
In the case of Turkey, at the same time as Cameron was offering this support, the French were going the other way and were being threatened by Turkey with trade tit for tat.
And who gains - we all do, as the money made and spent is taxed and goes to support our public services.
Honestly, I'd suggest take a moment to look at the bigger picture before you form a final view.
Or back in the real world we could pay the EU billions of quid so they can pay Ford to move their Southampton factory to Turkey.Lets take an example (which happens to be true). Lets say the UK Government could help UK companies gain contracts in Turkey worth tens of millions by offering some warm words of encouragement to the Turkish government - would that be worthwhile?
It might take a 3 day visit, a few speeches, a couple of official dinners meeting Turkish dignitaries.
And in return our companies are able to compete and win large contracts, employing, hundreds of jobs, all with UK taxes paid on the money.
Cameron has to represent what is best for the UK overall, and that sometimes means offering support politically, even though domestically it might sound strange.
In the case of Turkey, at the same time as Cameron was offering this support, the French were going the other way and were being threatened by Turkey with trade tit for tat.
And who gains - we all do, as the money made and spent is taxed and goes to support our public services.
Honestly, I'd suggest take a moment to look at the bigger picture before you form a final view.
Edited by EddieSteadyGo on Sunday 22 May 18:48
That's the reality, not your fantasy straw-clutching exercise.
Shortly thereafter, Ford closed its Southampton plant making Transits.
Perhaps you should try again.
EddieSteadyGo said:
ruggedscotty said:
Cameron dont forget is getting something out of the union - him and his cronies in the upper echelons of government tend to have fingers in pies and investments to make money, pulling out the EU will no doubt hurt those investments so he has invested interests.
Basically, you just accused our Prime Minister of being corrupt.Would be interesting to see the evidence which made you form the view that there is 'no doubt' about these 'investments' and those 'vested interest'.
loafer123 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
loafer123 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
paulrockliffe said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
If only life were as simple as your analysis would suggest.
Lets take an example (which happens to be true). Lets say the UK Government could help UK companies gain contracts in Turkey worth tens of millions by offering some warm words of encouragement to the Turkish government - would that be worthwhile?
It might take a 3 day visit, a few speeches, a couple of official dinners meeting Turkish dignitaries.
And in return our companies are able to compete and win large contracts, employing, hundreds of jobs, all with UK taxes paid on the money.
Cameron has to represent what is best for the UK overall, and that sometimes means offering support politically, even though domestically it might sound strange.
In the case of Turkey, at the same time as Cameron was offering this support, the French were going the other way and were being threatened by Turkey with trade tit for tat.
And who gains - we all do, as the money made and spent is taxed and goes to support our public services.
Honestly, I'd suggest take a moment to look at the bigger picture before you form a final view.
Or back in the real world we could pay the EU billions of quid so they can pay Ford to move their Southampton factory to Turkey.Lets take an example (which happens to be true). Lets say the UK Government could help UK companies gain contracts in Turkey worth tens of millions by offering some warm words of encouragement to the Turkish government - would that be worthwhile?
It might take a 3 day visit, a few speeches, a couple of official dinners meeting Turkish dignitaries.
And in return our companies are able to compete and win large contracts, employing, hundreds of jobs, all with UK taxes paid on the money.
Cameron has to represent what is best for the UK overall, and that sometimes means offering support politically, even though domestically it might sound strange.
In the case of Turkey, at the same time as Cameron was offering this support, the French were going the other way and were being threatened by Turkey with trade tit for tat.
And who gains - we all do, as the money made and spent is taxed and goes to support our public services.
Honestly, I'd suggest take a moment to look at the bigger picture before you form a final view.
Edited by EddieSteadyGo on Sunday 22 May 18:48
That's the reality, not your fantasy straw-clutching exercise.
Shortly thereafter, Ford closed its Southampton plant making Transits.
Perhaps you should try again.
Would be interesting to see the terms of loan if you say they were non-commercial. Please post the terms.
Hugh Jarse said:
loafer123 said:
The European Investment Bank lent €100m in 2012 to Ford to upgrade their Turkish plant so it could make new Transits. Shortly thereafter, Ford closed its Southampton plant making Transits.
CheckmateI said it wasn't the EU and it wasn't giving, which is correct.
EddieSteadyGo said:
It was the European Investment Bank of which the UK owns a reasonable share I believe. Not the EU.
Would be interesting to see the terms of loan if you say they were non-commercial. Please post the terms.
"EU's bankWould be interesting to see the terms of loan if you say they were non-commercial. Please post the terms.
The EIB is the European Union's bank. We are the only bank owned by and representing the interests of the European Union Member States. We work closely with other EU institutions to implement EU policy."
The purpose of the EIB is to support development projects that would otherwise not be viable, including in accession countries like Turkey.
The specific terms of the loan are obviously confidential, but the mere fact the EIB are involved means they are subsidised.
loafer123 said:
"EU's bank
The EIB is the European Union's bank. We are the only bank owned by and representing the interests of the European Union Member States. We work closely with other EU institutions to implement EU policy."
The purpose of the EIB is to support development projects that would otherwise not be viable, including in accession countries like Turkey.
The specific terms of the loan are obviously confidential, but the mere fact the EIB are involved means they are subsidised.
They've also just loaned the UK the biggest ever loan for a water based infrastructure project - to sort out the Thames.The EIB is the European Union's bank. We are the only bank owned by and representing the interests of the European Union Member States. We work closely with other EU institutions to implement EU policy."
The purpose of the EIB is to support development projects that would otherwise not be viable, including in accession countries like Turkey.
The specific terms of the loan are obviously confidential, but the mere fact the EIB are involved means they are subsidised.
I wonder if the use of this facility for future loans will be lost if we Brexit?
Presumably the loan to Ford could have gone to spend in the UK - if that had been on the political/industrial agenda. If we had decent MEPs motivated to make the EU work for the UK, and not whinging zero productivity belligerents like Farage and Hannan.......who knows?
///ajd said:
If we had decent MEPs motivated to make the EU work for the UK, and not whinging zero productivity belligerents like Farage and Hannan.......who knows?
Do you know of any examples of MEPs of any country who are able to exert beneficial influence on behalf of their country ?///ajd said:
loafer123 said:
"EU's bank
The EIB is the European Union's bank. We are the only bank owned by and representing the interests of the European Union Member States. We work closely with other EU institutions to implement EU policy."
The purpose of the EIB is to support development projects that would otherwise not be viable, including in accession countries like Turkey.
The specific terms of the loan are obviously confidential, but the mere fact the EIB are involved means they are subsidised.
They've also just loaned the UK the biggest ever loan for a water based infrastructure project - to sort out the Thames.The EIB is the European Union's bank. We are the only bank owned by and representing the interests of the European Union Member States. We work closely with other EU institutions to implement EU policy."
The purpose of the EIB is to support development projects that would otherwise not be viable, including in accession countries like Turkey.
The specific terms of the loan are obviously confidential, but the mere fact the EIB are involved means they are subsidised.
I wonder if the use of this facility for future loans will be lost if we Brexit?
Presumably the loan to Ford could have gone to spend in the UK - if that had been on the political/industrial agenda. If we had decent MEPs motivated to make the EU work for the UK, and not whinging zero productivity belligerents like Farage and Hannan.......who knows?
U.K. projects have totalled €29bn over the last 5 years.
We (the UK) have €39bn of capital invested in the EIB.
On a Tier One capital ratio of 10%, we could use that capital to lend €390bn on projects in the UK if we got it back when leaving the EU.
Given subsidised terms, maybe a higher T1 ratio would be more appropriate, but it would still be many multiplies greater for the UK.
EddieSteadyGo said:
loafer123 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
Obviously 
Are you 12? But when queried, you don't have the information. Hence you get a rolleyes from me.
The purpose of the EIB, to lend where commercial banks will not, is clear for everyone to understand.
Hugh Jarse said:
loafer123 said:
The European Investment Bank lent €100m in 2012 to Ford to upgrade their Turkish plant so it could make new Transits. Shortly thereafter, Ford closed its Southampton plant making Transits.
CheckmateFord confirmed that the EIB’s loan supporting investment in Turkey was by no means linked to the decision taken by the company to close either the Genk or the Southampton plants which was taken after signature of the EIB loan to Ford Otosan
Whether you choose to believe that or not I'll leave up to you.
http://autoindustrynewsletter.blogspot.co.uk/2012/...
8 year loan, 2 year grace period, 2% interest
The loan formed £80 million of a £600 million investment in the plant.
It seems like ford had most of the funds in place from outside of the eib already?
loafer123 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
loafer123 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
Obviously
Are you 12? But when queried, you don't have the information. Hence you get a rolleyes from me.
The purpose of the EIB, to lend where commercial banks will not, is clear for everyone to understand.
I don't want to get bogged down in semantics - I was trying to make a broader point about how our PM benefits the UK by interacting with overseas countries and sometimes telling them what they want to hear, if it benefits the UK.
The point was raised about the EU giving money to Ford. I just responded to say this wasn't correct.
cookie118 said:
Hugh Jarse said:
loafer123 said:
The European Investment Bank lent €100m in 2012 to Ford to upgrade their Turkish plant so it could make new Transits. Shortly thereafter, Ford closed its Southampton plant making Transits.
CheckmateFord confirmed that the EIB’s loan supporting investment in Turkey was by no means linked to the decision taken by the company to close either the Genk or the Southampton plants which was taken after signature of the EIB loan to Ford Otosan
Whether you choose to believe that or not I'll leave up to you.
http://autoindustrynewsletter.blogspot.co.uk/2012/...
8 year loan, 2 year grace period, 2% interest
The loan formed £80 million of a £600 million investment in the plant.
It seems like ford had most of the funds in place from outside of the eib already?
just realised how low the official debate has sunk on both sides as i listened to esther mcvey on the bbc. she has come across as the most sensible politician i have listened to in recent days and actually knew what she was talking about. how bad must the rest be to make esther mcvey look good.
wc98 said:
just realised how low the official debate has sunk on both sides as i listened to esther mcvey on the bbc. she has come across as the most sensible politician i have listened to in recent days and actually knew what she was talking about. how bad must the rest be to make esther mcvey look good.
Gosh...Esther McVey.... glad she impressed. Not sure which side she is on in terms of the EU debate, but have always found her generally lacking IMO.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff