The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2
Discussion
Trabi601 said:
don4l said:
I generally find your country to be very welcoming and tolerant. The only people who make me feel unwelcome are people like you. Being labelled a thick, ignorant, bigotted old racist makes me feel that you would be happier if I didn't live here.
Go on, tell us how happy you are that I came here.
Still feeling smug?
I think the 'leave' supporters are burying their heads in the sand over this issue - we need to nip it in the bud now - but whilst there's such denial going on, it'll only allow it to blossom.Go on, tell us how happy you are that I came here.
Still feeling smug?
You are the problem. The vast majority of people are perfectly tolerant, welcoming and accepting of migrants, but want to be able to control how many come and under what rules.
NerveAgent said:
I'm not sure if this is being discussed anywhere in the million Brexit threads but has anyone got any thoughts on what might happen to party politics?
Are the Conservatives going to have to appeal to where the majority of the leave vote came from?
If Labour go pro leave, its going to lose a hell of a lot of it younger/urban voters?
Are Lib Dems going to be where the remain voters head?
What sort of policies are UKIP going to focus on outside of immigration?
Or are we going to see splits/new parties?
Err the majority of the leave vote probably came from the Conservatives existing constituencies. Certainly if you compare the two electoral maps only a handful of, typically affluent, Tory seats didn't vote leave.Are the Conservatives going to have to appeal to where the majority of the leave vote came from?
If Labour go pro leave, its going to lose a hell of a lot of it younger/urban voters?
Are Lib Dems going to be where the remain voters head?
What sort of policies are UKIP going to focus on outside of immigration?
Or are we going to see splits/new parties?
Almost certainly as well the remain voters in these seats were motivated far more by economic factors than in places like central London or Newcastle.
As long as the Tories don't mess things up by rigging the next Tory leadership election they will be well placed for the next election as far as I can see.
I think it is Labour who have the problem as many commentators are saying the North east could go the way of Scotland for them.
loafer123 said:
You are like one of those people who say "I'm not racist, I know lots of black people"
You are the problem. The vast majority of people are perfectly tolerant, welcoming and accepting of migrants, but want to be able to control how many come and under what rules.
That's one hell of an accusation! and entirely, insultingly, wrong.You are the problem. The vast majority of people are perfectly tolerant, welcoming and accepting of migrants, but want to be able to control how many come and under what rules.
loafer123 said:
Trabi601 said:
don4l said:
I generally find your country to be very welcoming and tolerant. The only people who make me feel unwelcome are people like you. Being labelled a thick, ignorant, bigotted old racist makes me feel that you would be happier if I didn't live here.
Go on, tell us how happy you are that I came here.
Still feeling smug?
I think the 'leave' supporters are burying their heads in the sand over this issue - we need to nip it in the bud now - but whilst there's such denial going on, it'll only allow it to blossom.Go on, tell us how happy you are that I came here.
Still feeling smug?
You are the problem. The vast majority of people are perfectly tolerant, welcoming and accepting of migrants, but want to be able to control how many come and under what rules.
Simple age old sour grapes and sore losers. Pathetic
Trabi601 said:
loafer123 said:
You are like one of those people who say "I'm not racist, I know lots of black people"
You are the problem. The vast majority of people are perfectly tolerant, welcoming and accepting of migrants, but want to be able to control how many come and under what rules.
That's one hell of an accusation! and entirely, insultingly, wrong.You are the problem. The vast majority of people are perfectly tolerant, welcoming and accepting of migrants, but want to be able to control how many come and under what rules.
Not nice, or true, is it?
JagLover said:
I think it is Labour who have the problem as many commentators are saying the North east could go the way of Scotland for them.
Undeniably Labour have a massive problem, but what do you mean : NE go the same way as Scotland ? I'm sure a large part of the SNP's supporters would vote Labour if they thought they were credible, but would rather vote for a socialist party rather than the tory alternative (and incidentally they would likely not vote for independence) - but what alternative do voters in the NE have ? The majority will revert to voting Labour or abstaining.loafer123 said:
And yet that is exactly what you are accusing Leave voters like myself of.
Not nice, or true, is it?
Not accusing all of them - but a very significant proportion of leave voters voted entirely on the immigration issue - and some even believed that it would stop non-EU immigration. There's also the far-right groups growing in confidence, with more people now believing that public racism is acceptable.Not nice, or true, is it?
We have opened a can of worms here and I feel it's going to be a very unpleasant few years.
But this is what you get when you give airtime to the likes of Farage.
Trabi601 said:
Not accusing all of them - but a very significant proportion of leave voters voted entirely on the immigration issue - and some even believed that it would stop non-EU immigration. There's also the far-right groups growing in confidence, with more people now believing that public racism is acceptable.
We have opened a can of worms here and I feel it's going to be a very unpleasant few years.
But this is what you get when you give airtime to the likes of Farage.
This mud you are throwing, strangely it is failing to stick. Might I suggest you return when you actually have an argument?We have opened a can of worms here and I feel it's going to be a very unpleasant few years.
But this is what you get when you give airtime to the likes of Farage.
don4l said:
Trabi601 said:
danllama said:
Yes of course many voted based on immigration. SO WHAT? They exercised their right to express an anger at something that affects them. That's not unhealthy in the slightest.
yhThe real issue here is that a lot of people have nothing against EU immigration and free movement of labour, but appeared to think that voting out would stop Muslims coming here.
Many, many people were ill informed and didn't have a clue what they were voting for and are only now waking up to the reality that they voted the wrong way.
How on Earth did you manage to drag Muslims into this?
Telling lies is one of the reasons that you lost.
Learn the lesson, and move on.
I've not been following all the thread ls here but this used to be the main one
after this
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bre...
this seems to fully validate the banking exodus 'scaremongering'.
this suggests tariff free single market access is crucial for protecting UK future economy.
this means the norway option and free movement
is that really want leavers want and voted for?
i can understand all this respecting democracy talk, but from a business point of view it just feels like the decision has clearly been made on a very false prospectus.
If i did a business case in my org for a project and said
- won't affect our $3 trillion GDP
- will allow to save £350m week
- will allow us to control migration
... i might put that to 50 board directors as a business case and can support from 26 and rejection from 24. close but it would carry a majority decision and we decide to do it.
now the day later i tell them
- it might really hit GDP hard
- won't get £350 million back
- might not be able to control migration
.....would the 50 board directors say "well a majority agreed it was a good idea yesterday so we'll still crack on with the project?"
still feels a bit insane to me.
after this
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bre...
this seems to fully validate the banking exodus 'scaremongering'.
this suggests tariff free single market access is crucial for protecting UK future economy.
this means the norway option and free movement
is that really want leavers want and voted for?
i can understand all this respecting democracy talk, but from a business point of view it just feels like the decision has clearly been made on a very false prospectus.
If i did a business case in my org for a project and said
- won't affect our $3 trillion GDP
- will allow to save £350m week
- will allow us to control migration
... i might put that to 50 board directors as a business case and can support from 26 and rejection from 24. close but it would carry a majority decision and we decide to do it.
now the day later i tell them
- it might really hit GDP hard
- won't get £350 million back
- might not be able to control migration
.....would the 50 board directors say "well a majority agreed it was a good idea yesterday so we'll still crack on with the project?"
still feels a bit insane to me.
Trabi601 said:
loafer123 said:
You are like one of those people who say "I'm not racist, I know lots of black people"
You are the problem. The vast majority of people are perfectly tolerant, welcoming and accepting of migrants, but want to be able to control how many come and under what rules.
That's one hell of an accusation! and entirely, insultingly, wrong.You are the problem. The vast majority of people are perfectly tolerant, welcoming and accepting of migrants, but want to be able to control how many come and under what rules.
Sam All said:
Trabi601 said:
Einion Yrth said:
This mud you are throwing, strangely it is failing to stick. Might I suggest you return when you actually have an argument?
Once you take your head out of the sand, you may see the reality.Just read that.
The leave supporters need to wake up to the reality that this is happening out there - and the leave campaigners need to start to be vocal about condemning it and how they're going to fix this.
Trabi601 said:
Sam All said:
Trabi601 said:
Einion Yrth said:
This mud you are throwing, strangely it is failing to stick. Might I suggest you return when you actually have an argument?
Once you take your head out of the sand, you may see the reality.Just read that.
The leave supporters need to wake up to the reality that this is happening out there - and the leave campaigners need to start to be vocal about condemning it and how they're going to fix this.
gothatway said:
JagLover said:
I think it is Labour who have the problem as many commentators are saying the North east could go the way of Scotland for them.
Undeniably Labour have a massive problem, but what do you mean : NE go the same way as Scotland ? I'm sure a large part of the SNP's supporters would vote Labour if they thought they were credible, but would rather vote for a socialist party rather than the tory alternative (and incidentally they would likely not vote for independence) - but what alternative do voters in the NE have ? The majority will revert to voting Labour or abstaining.I am not as sure due to long standing tribal loyalties but the Labour vote in these areas has been dropping since 2001.
Trabi601 said:
Einion Yrth said:
This mud you are throwing, strangely it is failing to stick. Might I suggest you return when you actually have an argument?
Once you take your head out of the sand, you may see the reality.I think the referendum result was a result of merging the Euro-sceptic right with the working class voters who primarily voted this way as they don't like immigration. What I don't agree with you is that this somehow invalidates the result. MPs are supposed to represent their constituents not lecture them on the "approved" views they should hold. The only thing now that is going to draw the poison out of the immigration debate is an Australian style VISA system and restrictions on the right of new migrants to claim benefits. Do that and this will settle down to be the non-issue it was in the 1990s.
Edited by JagLover on Sunday 26th June 20:25
turbobloke said:
Einion Yrth said:
Owen Jones said:
This was not a vote on the undeniable lack of accountability and transparency of the European Union.
For me it was, at least; and others I suspect. Just the left failing to understand again.and the reactionary moron solutions to problems
Refugees in Greece? = Turkey under dictatorship a member
Latins over budget? = Lend unpayable amounts of money
Latins no money even to pay debts? = finally insist on austerity now debts have become impossible
Nobody wants Merkels migrants? = fine each refusal at €250000 per person
These are the responses of unaccountable morons.
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