The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2

The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2

Author
Discussion

whoami

13,151 posts

239 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
Zod said:
Puggit said:
el stovey said:
First European Parliament meeting since Brexit on now. Shultz speaking highly of Lord Hill, who just received a standing ovation.
Because he did a good job, or because he was a committed European?
Because he was doing a good job, leading the Capital Markets Union project that will now be poorer for the his loss and that of his cabinet and its expertise. This will affect us, because our capital markets law and regulation will have to continue to develop in line with that of the EU.
Why would that necessarily be the case? Cameron has already said that he will be replaced.

Tycho

11,554 posts

272 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
fizz47 said:
Watching the MEPS speak just makes me even stronger in the resolve that the LEAVE decision was 100% correct...

Everyone thinks that finger pointing and hurling insults is productive....

No one is saying this is should be wake up call but are so bitter and twisted...
Exactly, there are already calls for total unity and an army. Better out.

Sam All

3,101 posts

100 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
Zod said:
Because he was doing a good job, leading the Capital Markets Union project that will now be poorer for the his loss and that of his cabinet and its expertise. This will affect us, because our capital markets law and regulation will have to continue to develop in line with that of the EU.
He could have carried on, for the sake of his country.

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
whoami said:
Zod said:
Puggit said:
el stovey said:
First European Parliament meeting since Brexit on now. Shultz speaking highly of Lord Hill, who just received a standing ovation.
Because he did a good job, or because he was a committed European?
Because he was doing a good job, leading the Capital Markets Union project that will now be poorer for the his loss and that of his cabinet and its expertise. This will affect us, because our capital markets law and regulation will have to continue to develop in line with that of the EU.
Why would that necessarily be the case? Cameron has already said that he will be replaced.
He has been replaced, but by a Latvian. I'm told the Latvian is sensible, but he doesn't have any of Hill's experience.

We will replace our Commissioner, but the replacement will get the toilets portfolio.

Sam All

3,101 posts

100 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
Tycho said:
fizz47 said:
Watching the MEPS speak just makes me even stronger in the resolve that the LEAVE decision was 100% correct...

Everyone thinks that finger pointing and hurling insults is productive....

No one is saying this is should be wake up call but are so bitter and twisted...
Exactly, there are already calls for total unity and an army. Better out.
They are rather "my way or the highway" - scorned people, doubt they will be rational - for the Juncker types it is personal.

Edited by Sam All on Tuesday 28th June 10:20

chow pan toon

12,356 posts

236 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
Sam All said:
They are rather "my way or the highway" - scorned people, doubt they will be rational - fir the Junckers it is personal.
Of course it is. We've already had ample warning that this would happen, they care more about the project than they do about the youth of southern europe ffs, why anyone imagined they were going to take a grown up, pragmatic approach to us I don't know.

Tycho

11,554 posts

272 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
chow pan toon said:
Sam All said:
They are rather "my way or the highway" - scorned people, doubt they will be rational - fir the Junckers it is personal.
Of course it is. We've already had ample warning that this would happen, they care more about the project than they do about the youth of southern europe ffs, why anyone imagined they were going to take a grown up, pragmatic approach to us I don't know.
You can only have sovereignty if you share sovereignty. WTF???????

whoami

13,151 posts

239 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
Zod said:
whoami said:
Zod said:
Puggit said:
el stovey said:
First European Parliament meeting since Brexit on now. Shultz speaking highly of Lord Hill, who just received a standing ovation.
Because he did a good job, or because he was a committed European?
Because he was doing a good job, leading the Capital Markets Union project that will now be poorer for the his loss and that of his cabinet and its expertise. This will affect us, because our capital markets law and regulation will have to continue to develop in line with that of the EU.
Why would that necessarily be the case? Cameron has already said that he will be replaced.
He has been replaced, but by a Latvian. I'm told the Latvian is sensible, but he doesn't have any of Hill's experience.

We will replace our Commissioner, but the replacement will get the toilets portfolio.
I understood that this appointment was temporary?

FiF

43,963 posts

250 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
This is some interesting information from Richard North. He's put together a piece which consolidates some information that was discovered very late in the campaign and led to a last minute revision of Flexcit.

He's calling it the Liechtenstein solution, which suggests that EU officials weren't telling the whole truth about freedom if movement. Claims of "it's non negotiable" isn't quite the whole truth it seems, as they have negotiated with one of the three EFTA/EEA states to suspend freedom of movement.

What you say? Well it seems that is the case, and of course the comparison between the tiny state of Liechtenstein and UK is a difficult one, a micro state of population similar to my local town, unable to accommodate unlimited immigration. Which leads to the emergency brake, article 112. Which still applies, a quota system in place, and a precedent set.

Of course UK is at the other end of the spectrum in size, and I'm still of the opinion that the favoured first stage on a controlled exit is to rejoin EFTA, accept the compromises that will provide continued access and membership of EEA, with all the various restrictions and responsibilities that entails. Clearly do not go for this as any part of exit negotiations, but article 112 is clearly part of the EFTA/EEA agreement.

Clearly the unelected EU leaders will have their view, but proper politicians who answer to voters might have different views. Personally not sure if we'd ever get a similar deal as outlined here but who knows, just because... link

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
boxxob said:
Zod said:
Because he was doing a good job, leading the Capital Markets Union project that will now be poorer for the his loss and that of his cabinet and its expertise. This will affect us, because our capital markets law and regulation will have to continue to develop in line with that of the EU.
We would have been doing that anyway (re law and regs), I presume? How much of this sort of financial activity in the UK does not involve the EU? What is the timetable for this CMU project? What are the risks?
The principal risk was under-delivery. That risk has now increased. Capital markets regulation in the EU is heavily based on UK practice that has developed over a very long time. There are, of course, aspects that reflect practice in other jurisdictions, particularly France and Germany, but we have tended to ignore those. The risk for the future is that EU regulation diverges from UK practice and that we are obliged to follow, either because we are in the single market or because we need to demonstrate equivalence in order to sell into the EU.

Jonesy23

4,650 posts

135 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
The EU is run by a bunch of second-raters and political has-beens and some people are surprised if turns out the way it does.

Utterly dysfunctional when you see the EP in action.

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
whoami said:
Zod said:
whoami said:
Zod said:
Puggit said:
el stovey said:
First European Parliament meeting since Brexit on now. Shultz speaking highly of Lord Hill, who just received a standing ovation.
Because he did a good job, or because he was a committed European?
Because he was doing a good job, leading the Capital Markets Union project that will now be poorer for the his loss and that of his cabinet and its expertise. This will affect us, because our capital markets law and regulation will have to continue to develop in line with that of the EU.
Why would that necessarily be the case? Cameron has already said that he will be replaced.
He has been replaced, but by a Latvian. I'm told the Latvian is sensible, but he doesn't have any of Hill's experience.

We will replace our Commissioner, but the replacement will get the toilets portfolio.
I understood that this appointment was temporary?
I hadn't heard that, but we will definitely not be getting that portfolio back.

don4l

10,058 posts

175 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
Zod said:
don4l said:
Zod said:
sidicks said:
Zod said:
don't agree. The majority of Leave voters (not all here, please note, before you get upset) voted for £350m per week for the NHS and restrictions on immigration, both of which have now been discounted by various Leave campaigners. For such voters, the niceties of being in or out of the EEA or EFTA or relying on WTO rules are not a concern.
Not true
For you perhaps.
For who, then?

Really, nobody thought that the NHS was going to get £350m a week. That is just plain silly.

I do sometimes wonder why you write such nonsense. You must think that we are all as thick as two short planks.
Don't tempt me.

don4l said:
Then again, the remain side tried to tell us that there would be cuts in the NHS if we left. By the end of the campaign you were reduced to claiming that we wouldn't bve spending an extra £350m a week. Have you any idea how utterly pathetic that looks?

You told us that 3.3m people would lose their jobs if we Brexited. Than turned out to be balderdash.

You told us that Britain could have no global influence outside the EU. More Nonsense. We will, as you well know, retake our seat on the WTO and keep our seat on the Security Council.

You told us that the EU had kept the peace in Europe, whereas, as we saw in the former Yugoslavia, it was NATO that kept the peace. The useless EU did nothing at all.

You weren't happy telling all those lies. You then had to heap insults on us. We were told that we were uneducated, lower class, pale and old.
Find me a quote in which I said any of those things. I did not.


don4l said:
Zod, you seemed especially happy to peddle that nonsense. Shame on you.
You are a liar. You are about the most unpleasant person left on your side of the argument here. I held out an olive branch to you on Friday that you ignored.

don4l said:
When a lunatic murdered an MP, you tried to suggest that his hatred had been stoked by the Leave campaign. This really shocked me. Just how low is it possible to go?
Liar.

don4l said:
Do you apologise for all the lies, insults and smears?
Apologise to a lying st like you?

don4l said:
No. You just carry on as if you hadn't been beaten.

As you can probably guess, I'm a bit fed up of all the lies.

I'm fed up with the insults.

If you must carry on with the lies and insults, which I know you must, could I at least ask that we don't get any more sneering?

TIA.
Self-righteous indignation from a nasty, twisted old man. You stoop so low as to be beneath contempt.


edit: formatting

Edited by Zod on Tuesday 28th June 09:53
You cannot help yourself, can you?


PS. I thought that I had responded(positively) to the olive branch. It is possible that you missed my reply, or it is equally possible that I didn't click submit. This thread is moving very fast.

If you are an active member of AMOC, then it is quite likely that we are going to meet. yikes

We will get on absolutely fine.




fizz47

2,663 posts

209 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
Much that I despise Farage and think now that we have Brexit he needs to leave 100% - I have to say his current speech in the European Parliament was ok..

FiF

43,963 posts

250 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
Farage couldn't resist some cheap shots either, which reinforces my attitude that his behaviour has been and continues to be unstatesmanlike.

However the response and heckling from the assembly to the request for a grown up pragmatic discussion on the way forward just reinforces my belief that the decision last Thursday was the correct one.

SeeFive

8,280 posts

232 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
Mr_B said:
Farage is going to be speaking in a few mins at the EU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-nwKX6LrC4
That was embarrassing. I truly hope he is not involved in the negotiations for our exit. A very poor performance.

Lots of support for the view that the EU is not working from other speakers though, and sometimes well put.

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
Sam All said:
Zod said:
Because he was doing a good job, leading the Capital Markets Union project that will now be poorer for the his loss and that of his cabinet and its expertise. This will affect us, because our capital markets law and regulation will have to continue to develop in line with that of the EU.
He could have carried on, for the sake of his country.
I agree!

Sam All

3,101 posts

100 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
FiF said:
Farage couldn't resist some cheap shots either, which reinforces my attitude that his behaviour has been and continues to be unstatesmanlike.

However the response and heckling from the assembly to the request for a grown up pragmatic discussion on the way forward just reinforces my belief that the decision last Thursday was the correct one.
I am more concerned by the behaviour of Juncker - he is the top man at he EU.

markh1973

1,787 posts

167 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
don4l said:
markh1973 said:
don4l said:
For who, then?

Really, nobody thought that the NHS was going to get £350m a week. That is just plain silly.

I do sometimes wonder why you write such nonsense. You must think that we are all as thick as two short planks.

Then again, the remain side tried to tell us that there would be cuts in the NHS if we left. By the end of the campaign you were reduced to claiming that we wouldn't bve spending an extra £350m a week. Have you any idea how utterly pathetic that looks?

You told us that 3.3m people would lose their jobs if we Brexited. Than turned out to be balderdash.

You told us that Britain could have no global influence outside the EU. More Nonsense. We will, as you well know, retake our seat on the WTO and keep our seat on the Security Council.

You told us that the EU had kept the peace in Europe, whereas, as we saw in the former Yugoslavia, it was NATO that kept the peace. The useless EU did nothing at all.

You weren't happy telling all those lies. You then had to heap insults on us. We were told that we were uneducated, lower class, pale and old. Zod, you seemed especially happy to peddle that nonsense. Shame on you.

When a lunatic murdered an MP, you tried to suggest that his hatred had been stoked by the Leave campaign. This really shocked me. Just how low is it possible to go?

Do you apologise for all the lies, insults and smears?

No. You just carry on as if you hadn't been beaten.

As you can probably guess, I'm a bit fed up of all the lies.

I'm fed up with the insults.

If you must carry on with the lies and insults, which I know you must, could I at least ask that we don't get any more sneering?

TIA.
So when will you be apologising for all of the insults that you threw around at anyone who wanted to remain?
As I have said many, many times, if you think that I have said something that is wrong, then quote it.


Simply asserting that I should apologise is rather silly if you cannot say what I should apologise for.
So you deny insulting people who were going to vote remain?

You deny repeatedly calling them traitors - including by default WWII veterans who voted remain?

You deny insulting people voting remain by calling them bedwetters?

mikebradford

2,483 posts

144 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
fizz47 said:
Much that I despise Farage and think now that we have Brexit he needs to leave 100% - I have to say his current speech in the European Parliament was ok..
I believe that UKIP will now evolve, such that it will state it represents the views of the majority. And will simply see that the lost labour and conservative voters are now effectively up for grabs. As such if they can convince enough of those people then they can not only get more actual votes but will likely gain significant amount of seats at the next GE.

As such the established parties are potentially in trouble as their original stance of staying in Europe means they effectively have handed voters to UKIP

The next GE will be very interesting, as it will show if the so called facebook generation will continue to take an interest in politics or not. As they could make a difference should they actually care.