The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2
Discussion
romeogolf said:
boxxob said:
You seem to be presuming that a large proportion of those voting Remain understand what they were voting for.
So if we voted 52-48 in favour of remain but parliament decided to leave anyway, then what would you say?
The difference is that 'to leave' is to make a change. Remaining is 'as it always was'. We cannot be neither in nor out.So if we voted 52-48 in favour of remain but parliament decided to leave anyway, then what would you say?
Were the vote in favour of remain my response would be the same: Clearly half the country are not satisfied with the EU as it stands and we need change. The threshold should always have been a wider margin. A near 50-50 split as it has been is not conclusive in either direction.
As for Remaining is 'as it always was', that is not simply true. When I (was young) voted stay in 75 it was a common market with 9 other members. NINE!
Remaining is 'as it always was'.
romeogolf said:
The difference is that 'to leave' is to make a change. Remaining is 'as it always was'. We cannot be neither in nor out.
Were the vote in favour of remain my response would be the same: Clearly half the country are not satisfied with the EU as it stands and we need change. The threshold should always have been a wider margin. A near 50-50 split as it has been is not conclusive in either direction.
But sadly for your opinion it was 52 - 48 and by the rules that was decisive enough for Leave to win. Were the vote in favour of remain my response would be the same: Clearly half the country are not satisfied with the EU as it stands and we need change. The threshold should always have been a wider margin. A near 50-50 split as it has been is not conclusive in either direction.
Curious as to when will be the right time for you to accept that and move on with your life?
steveatesh said:
romeogolf said:
The difference is that 'to leave' is to make a change. Remaining is 'as it always was'. We cannot be neither in nor out.
Were the vote in favour of remain my response would be the same: Clearly half the country are not satisfied with the EU as it stands and we need change. The threshold should always have been a wider margin. A near 50-50 split as it has been is not conclusive in either direction.
But sadly for your opinion it was 52 - 48 and by the rules that was decisive enough for Leave to win. Were the vote in favour of remain my response would be the same: Clearly half the country are not satisfied with the EU as it stands and we need change. The threshold should always have been a wider margin. A near 50-50 split as it has been is not conclusive in either direction.
Curious as to when will be the right time for you to accept that and move on with your life?
Result I want = democracy in action
Result I didn't want = the uneducated masses ruining it for "the rest of us".
Axionknight said:
When a second referedum is held and remain wins by a small margin, perhaps?
Result I want = democracy in action
Result I didn't want = the uneducated masses ruining it for "the rest of us".
The last point is important isn't it. They are all trying to find reasons why leave was the result rather than face the truth which is that a majority of the voters simply no longer want to be part of the EU for reasons they have rationalised themselves. Result I want = democracy in action
Result I didn't want = the uneducated masses ruining it for "the rest of us".
I came across the term a "black swan" event and this appears to have been one - something huge and unexpected, an outlier, which the masses then find a simplistic excuse or reason for using hindsight.
steveatesh said:
romeogolf said:
The difference is that 'to leave' is to make a change. Remaining is 'as it always was'. We cannot be neither in nor out.
Were the vote in favour of remain my response would be the same: Clearly half the country are not satisfied with the EU as it stands and we need change. The threshold should always have been a wider margin. A near 50-50 split as it has been is not conclusive in either direction.
But sadly for your opinion it was 52 - 48 and by the rules that was decisive enough for Leave to win. Were the vote in favour of remain my response would be the same: Clearly half the country are not satisfied with the EU as it stands and we need change. The threshold should always have been a wider margin. A near 50-50 split as it has been is not conclusive in either direction.
Curious as to when will be the right time for you to accept that and move on with your life?
Everybody sulks now and again.
...but 8 days???
FiF gave out to me early on in this discussion for being a bit abrasive. My position was that you couldn't reason with lefties.
I think that I have been vindicated. It is absolutely impossible to have a sensible discussion with them. They will always back the course of action that will do most harm to their country.
I first noticed this when I was only 23 years old. I had a neighbour who was a Trotskyist. He was a nice, intelligent chap, but the poison was unbelievable. I once asked him if both of us could live after his revolution came, and he admitted that one of us would have to die.
romeogolf said:
boxxob said:
You seem to be presuming that a large proportion of those voting Remain understand what they were voting for.
So if we voted 52-48 in favour of remain but parliament decided to leave anyway, then what would you say?
The difference is that 'to leave' is to make a change. Remaining is 'as it always was'. We cannot be neither in nor out.So if we voted 52-48 in favour of remain but parliament decided to leave anyway, then what would you say?
Were the vote in favour of remain my response would be the same: Clearly half the country are not satisfied with the EU as it stands and we need change. The threshold should always have been a wider margin. A near 50-50 split as it has been is not conclusive in either direction.
AJS- said:
Heath won with under 42% in 1970 and felt this was enough to take us into the EU.
So, we went in with 42%, and the bedwetters are saying that we shouldn't leave even though we got 52%.This is truely the greatest Sulk in history.
I'm looking forward to seeing YouTube interviews of some of today's "educated" London anti-democratic protesters.
Where are you, Zod?
don4l said:
So, we went in with 42%, and the bedwetters are saying that we shouldn't leave even though we got 52%.
This is truely the greatest Sulk in history.
I'm looking forward to seeing YouTube interviews of some of today's "educated" London anti-democratic protesters.
Where are you, Zod?
Why not look at the *real* figure which took us in?This is truely the greatest Sulk in history.
I'm looking forward to seeing YouTube interviews of some of today's "educated" London anti-democratic protesters.
Where are you, Zod?
You know, the referendum which was 67/33 in favour?
don4l said:
I'm astonished.
Everybody sulks now and again.
...but 8 days???
FiF gave out to me early on in this discussion for being a bit abrasive. My position was that you couldn't reason with lefties.
I think that I have been vindicated. It is absolutely impossible to have a sensible discussion with them. They will always back the course of action that will do most harm to their country.
I first noticed this when I was only 23 years old. I had a neighbour who was a Trotskyist. He was a nice, intelligent chap, but the poison was unbelievable. I once asked him if both of us could live after his revolution came, and he admitted that one of us would have to die.
I thought our main point of contention was over the use of the gross figure before any rebate etc in the story of what we send to the EU. My point was that this would over the course of the campaign be more of a hindrance than a help, which reckon I've been vindicated over that.Everybody sulks now and again.
...but 8 days???
FiF gave out to me early on in this discussion for being a bit abrasive. My position was that you couldn't reason with lefties.
I think that I have been vindicated. It is absolutely impossible to have a sensible discussion with them. They will always back the course of action that will do most harm to their country.
I first noticed this when I was only 23 years old. I had a neighbour who was a Trotskyist. He was a nice, intelligent chap, but the poison was unbelievable. I once asked him if both of us could live after his revolution came, and he admitted that one of us would have to die.
Yes, fair enough abrasive approach and frequent use of bedwetter taunt did grate, but to be perfectly frank some of the remainers appeared to deserve it, and possibly still do.
Likewise astonished at the 8 days and it's still going on. On the other hand, regardless the country has to be pulled together from the current fractured state. I'd like to see to that effect some effort to recognise that 48% of the population are against the current path. It's probably more than that as a significant number of the lazy arsed couldn't be bothered to vote, but that's tough, unfortunately they didn't count, and weren't counted.
On the other hand, fully accept I'm being too soft. If it had been 52/48 the other way, would any sop have been thrown in the Leave direction? Very much doubt it. So in short, you've had more than a week to display your anguish, so stfu big cry baby whiners. BBC especially you in that, or else.
AJS- said:
Ha any party ever won 52% at a general election? Yet they have all made changes.
Highest I could find was 49% for Harold MacMillain. Heath won with under 42% in 1970 and felt this was enough to take us into the EU.
I love the way % are used by the remain side all the time to signify only a small majority, but if I remember the actually result was 1.2 million more people voted to leave, that's a lot of people to ignore but I am sure there is a lot of people who would just love to ignore them and have a re run till they get the answer they want, and then of course it would be binding and not just advisory.Highest I could find was 49% for Harold MacMillain. Heath won with under 42% in 1970 and felt this was enough to take us into the EU.
I really do wonder what planet these people live on.
Trabi601 said:
don4l said:
So, we went in with 42%, and the bedwetters are saying that we shouldn't leave even though we got 52%.
This is truely the greatest Sulk in history.
I'm looking forward to seeing YouTube interviews of some of today's "educated" London anti-democratic protesters.
Where are you, Zod?
Why not look at the *real* figure which took us in?This is truely the greatest Sulk in history.
I'm looking forward to seeing YouTube interviews of some of today's "educated" London anti-democratic protesters.
Where are you, Zod?
You know, the referendum which was 67/33 in favour?
FiF said:
Trabi601 said:
don4l said:
So, we went in with 42%, and the bedwetters are saying that we shouldn't leave even though we got 52%.
This is truely the greatest Sulk in history.
I'm looking forward to seeing YouTube interviews of some of today's "educated" London anti-democratic protesters.
Where are you, Zod?
Why not look at the *real* figure which took us in?This is truely the greatest Sulk in history.
I'm looking forward to seeing YouTube interviews of some of today's "educated" London anti-democratic protesters.
Where are you, Zod?
You know, the referendum which was 67/33 in favour?
Trabi601 said:
Why not look at the *real* figure which took us in?
You know, the referendum which was 67/33 in favour?
Because that *kept* us in. And it kept us in a common market that was a bright new future for tired post imperial Britain. You know, the referendum which was 67/33 in favour?
This was about whether to remain part of process of a political union which we never wanted to be in to begin with.
Balmoral said:
Trabi601 said:
Why not look at the *real* figure which took us in?
You know, the referendum which was 67/33 in favour?
That wasn't a referendum on the EU though, it was for the EEC. Very, very different organisation and in very different times.You know, the referendum which was 67/33 in favour?
However, it just shows that the current result is an incredibly narrow margin, and that many 'leave' voters now acknowledge they voted the wrong way - add that to the far right and national socialist vote, I think we are deciding our future based on some very dodgy ground.
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