The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2

[John145]

For me it's simply democracy and a chance to retrieve it.

It amazes me people are willing to give this up just for some perceived economic expediency.

[MarkRSi]

dandarez said:

MarkRSi said:

Apologies if this has already been posted/mentioned, but has anyone got a video of this? Saw it on the BBC News webiste

Mark,

Here you are, video you wanted. (30sec crap vid before Ginetta one).

It's Tomlinson doing the driving. Brilliant PR Boris. And great, British company wanting OUT!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/boris-johnson...

Excellent, cheers

[Einion Yrth]

John145 said:

For me it's simply democracy and a chance to retrieve it.

It amazes me people are willing to give this up just for some perceived economic expediency.

It worries me even more that some of them attempt to claim that the EU is democratic.

[John145]

Einion Yrth said:

John145 said:

For me it's simply democracy and a chance to retrieve it.

It amazes me people are willing to give this up just for some perceived economic expediency.

It worries me even more that some of them attempt to claim that the EU is democratic.

Yes... You vote for an MEP therefore democracy. Hmm, let's think about the mechanisms at play here for a moment shall we...? No that's too difficult.

[Hosenbugler]

Rick_1138 said:

I'm still on the fence, my mrs is a definate IN.

My main worries are if we vote to stay, France will use this as a perfect reason to exert more power over our decisions, i.e. 'You chose to be in Europe, now suck it up'

We will never be allowed to forget we voted Yes and will become ever increasingly irrelevant, and our rebate will probably disappear too as we will be depended on more and more for cash.

However seeing the party political broadcast last night from the leave group was like something out of starship troopers, i was waiting for "Would you like to know more" pop up, it was graphics showing we give £350m a week to europe (no mention of what we get back at the same time) and arrows showing movement of turks, all a bit dads army graphics. Then a hospital waiting room, showing in and out on each side, apparently, if we are out, it will be like the 50's again, and everyone wil be seen in second and treated and happy.

It was laughable. However the stay in stuff is getting ridiculous now with its doom mongering.

I am torn.

What you ought to consider beyond all else, is the simple facts that the EU is about a federal Europe , its a political construct above all. With majority voting we are in a minority of one, and any veto's, agrrements we have currently, can, if the other countries deem it , be changed by treaty change , potentially anything can be forced upon us . There is no vote here for the status quo, if we stay in, the EU will become ever more involved in our lives, we having little , or in the fullness of time have any say at all in what they decide in Brussells

I look at in fairly straightforward manner. I currently have two grandkids , I take the outlook that if I vote to remain, I am effectively helping to put them in a situation in the fullness of time of having no sanction at all over politicians who have sway over them, other than violence of course. Thats wrong, very wrong.

The EU is a politicians wet dream, power without accountability , thats the key reason we need to get out now, because the authoritarian vice of EU will only tighten if we stay in.

[davek_964]

Rick_1138 said:

I'm still on the fence, my mrs is a definate IN.

My main worries are if we vote to stay, France will use this as a perfect reason to exert more power over our decisions, i.e. 'You chose to be in Europe, now suck it up'

We will never be allowed to forget we voted Yes and will become ever increasingly irrelevant, and our rebate will probably disappear too as we will be depended on more and more for cash.

However seeing the party political broadcast last night from the leave group was like something out of starship troopers, i was waiting for "Would you like to know more" pop up, it was graphics showing we give £350m a week to europe (no mention of what we get back at the same time) and arrows showing movement of turks, all a bit dads army graphics. Then a hospital waiting room, showing in and out on each side, apparently, if we are out, it will be like the 50's again, and everyone wil be seen in second and treated and happy.

It was laughable. However the stay in stuff is getting ridiculous now with its doom mongering.

I am torn.

It was really dreadful wasn't it? I half expected the old lady to pop her clogs in the left hand side (In) version. Really awful.

[paulrockliffe]

confused_buyer said:

I think they know in their hearts it is rubbish but nonetheless if you repeat a message often enough eventually it puts doubts into the back of their minds.

It is classic "Lynton Crosby" style electioneering: keep repeating the same message and when people get into the polling booth if they have that small amount of doubt on their minds their pen will hover over "Leave" and then switch to "Remain" as the safe option. Get enough people to do this and you win.

It really is working and they haven't even started yet. Expect a deluge of further stuff followed by some inevitable damming reports from various international organisations in the few days before the poll.

Unless the Leave side have a rabbit in a hat somewhere (and thus far their campaign has been so bad I actually expect them to get worse) or something happens outside of everyone's control then Remain are really heading for quite a big win I think.

There was a chap on Radio 4 the other evening who was asked whether people were taking any notice of the doom-laden predictions. He said he thought they'd gone too far with that, but also that while the remain campaign is all aloof elites lecturing doom, focused on the media, the leave campaign are much more mobilised in terms of speaking to people in the real world and getting their message across that way. His view was that it was a miscalcualtion that would work in leave's favour.

It fits what I've seen up here, I've seen several Leave stalls with 6-10 people manning them, leave bill boards in farmer's fields and on houses. All I've seen from remain is two students stood in the square being ignored and my local MP making a tit of herself in the national press.

But theories don't really matter in this.

[amgmcqueen]

I find it incredible that the IN campaign truly believe the EU can be reformed! I think Dave 'I won't pay a single penny' Cameron's pathetic, cringeworthy attempts proved that it is a definite NEIN!

They also claim we will not have a voice if we leave the EU. The same voice that gets a sock stuffed into it by the other 27 member states. We're told simply to 'do as I say not as I do'.

It's a dictatorship of which i'm staggered any British citizen would want to remain a part of. The EU is strangling us with it's bureaucratic red tape and unwanted laws and regulations.

[turbobloke]

There's one chap who knew all about the Remain campaign many years ago.

H L Mencken said:

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed, and hence clamorous to be led to safety, by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

[Mr_B]

Damn it, was looking to holiday in Europe during August, but now on a Brexit vote I'd be paying £230 more. I'm going to have to get in quick before my company closes or moves abroad, I'm one of the 800K unemployed, the specter of a European war, the prospect of a migrant camp descending outside my Kent home while away, not being able to fly cattle class on Ryanair, mobile phone calls to my prospective Euro hotel crippling me and not even being able to afford a holiday even if I do have a job because I'll be thousands worse off a year. I was planning to fill my suitcase on return full of euro food before they self tariff it and deter me from buying it here. I hope next week there is no plague of locusts to add in to the mix to make me just sit at home in fear.

[Mr_B]

amgmcqueen said:

I find it incredible that the IN campaign truly believe the EU can be reformed!

They don't. People like //ajd saying 'stay but reform from within' is just a little bit of BS they tell themselves, to placate themselves.
This vote will be decided by the 99% of the public who think the EU needs serious reform, but vote remain anyway knowing it won't happen.
Finding someone here with the honesty to stand up and say even if it stays as is, remaining in the EU is a good thing , is near impossible. It only smacks of a bad episode of EastEnders where a punch bag wife sticks with some guy saying he loves me and he doesn't mean it and thinking things will change if given another chance.

[anonymous-user]

CrutyRammers said:

jsf said:

Are you Harriet Harman? Exporters don't add tariffs to their products, it's the importing country that can apply a tariff to a product being imported into their marketplace if they choose to.

Parrot required, I think

Just checking. The level of absurdity in this "debate" prior to the referendum has blown my mind.

[Norfolkit]

amgmcqueen said:

I find it incredible that the IN campaign truly believe the EU can be reformed! I think Dave 'I won't pay a single penny' Cameron's pathetic, cringeworthy attempts proved that it is a definite NEIN!

They also claim we will not have a voice if we leave the EU. The same voice that gets a sock stuffed into it by the other 27 member states. We're told simply to 'do as I say not as I do'.

It's a dictatorship of which i'm staggered any British citizen would want to remain a part of. The EU is strangling us with it's bureaucratic red tape and unwanted laws and regulations.

They don't think it can be reformed and they're not trying, it's a private members club at the top, you, me and the rest of the great unwashed in Europe needn't apply. European politicians and bureaucrats like things just as they are, hence Dave calling in lots of favours for Project Fearifthatdon'tworkLie.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Rick_1138 said:

I'm still on the fence, my mrs is a definate IN.

My main worries are if we vote to stay, France will use this as a perfect reason to exert more power over our decisions, i.e. 'You chose to be in Europe, now suck it up'

We will never be allowed to forget we voted Yes and will become ever increasingly irrelevant, and our rebate will probably disappear too as we will be depended on more and more for cash.

However seeing the party political broadcast last night from the leave group was like something out of starship troopers, i was waiting for "Would you like to know more" pop up, it was graphics showing we give £350m a week to europe (no mention of what we get back at the same time) and arrows showing movement of turks, all a bit dads army graphics. Then a hospital waiting room, showing in and out on each side, apparently, if we are out, it will be like the 50's again, and everyone wil be seen in second and treated and happy.

It was laughable. However the stay in stuff is getting ridiculous now with its doom mongering.

I am torn.

The UK gets nothing back from the EU. All it gets `given' by the EU, is a tiny amount of the UK`s OWN money, which the EU then allows to UK to spend on the things it needs, but even then the EU fines the UK (960 million pounds over the last eight years)if the UK does not spend that cash the way the EU wants it to.
As for trade, The UK gets cash from this because it makes some of the things the EU wants, which are then sold to the EU. When a company sells things to the EU it is not being GIVEN cash, it is simply being paid for goods it has supplied.
If you were dealing with a company, which changed itself from one which made/did the things you hoped for and wanted, into one which then did only what IT wanted (and the two are not the same thing), and ignored you when you objected to this unwanted change.
A company which takes cash off you for nothing, but when you ask it to clean up its act ignores you completely. A company which makes a deal with you, takes your cash, but then reneges on the deal, and not only, does not give you your cash back, but continues to take extra billions off you years and years after the dodgy deal and gives you exactly nothing in return, would you actually want to continue dealing with that corrupt, unaccountable company?
Most sane people would want to steer clear of an organization as corrupt and unaccountable as that by a country mile.

[dandarez]

Mr_B said:

Damn it, was looking to holiday in Europe during August, but now on a Brexit vote I'd be paying £230 more. I'm going to have to get in quick before my company closes or moves abroad, I'm one of the 800K unemployed, the specter of a European war, the prospect of a migrant camp descending outside my Kent home while away, not being able to fly cattle class on Ryanair, mobile phone calls to my prospective Euro hotel crippling me and not even being able to afford a holiday even if I do have a job because I'll be thousands worse off a year. I was planning to fill my suitcase on return full of euro food before they self tariff it and deter me from buying it here. I hope next week there is no plague of locusts to add in to the mix to make me just sit at home in fear.

Arrrghhhhh!

Just driving along the A40 in Cameron county...

https://fsmedia.imgix.net/52/b2/ca/90/b354/4fd8/96...







About as much chance as the elderly and old Brexiters changing their minds to vote stay.
F. scaremongerers!

[FiF]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Rick_1138 said:

I'm still on the fence, my mrs is a definate IN.

My main worries are if we vote to stay, France will use this as a perfect reason to exert more power over our decisions, i.e. 'You chose to be in Europe, now suck it up'

We will never be allowed to forget we voted Yes and will become ever increasingly irrelevant, and our rebate will probably disappear too as we will be depended on more and more for cash.

However seeing the party political broadcast last night from the leave group was like something out of starship troopers, i was waiting for "Would you like to know more" pop up, it was graphics showing we give £350m a week to europe (no mention of what we get back at the same time) and arrows showing movement of turks, all a bit dads army graphics. Then a hospital waiting room, showing in and out on each side, apparently, if we are out, it will be like the 50's again, and everyone wil be seen in second and treated and happy.

It was laughable. However the stay in stuff is getting ridiculous now with its doom mongering.

I am torn.

The UK gets nothing back from the EU. All it gets `given' by the EU, is a tiny amount of the UK`s OWN money, which the EU then allows to UK to spend on the things it needs, but even then the EU fines the UK (960 million pounds over the last eight years)if the UK does not spend that cash the way the EU wants it to.
As for trade, The UK gets cash from this because it makes some of the things the EU wants, which are then sold to the EU. When a company sells things to the EU it is not being GIVEN cash, it is simply being paid for goods it has supplied.
If you were dealing with a company, which changed itself from one which made/did the things you hoped for and wanted, into one which then did only what IT wanted (and the two are not the same thing), and ignored you when you objected to this unwanted change.
A company which takes cash off you for nothing, but when you ask it to clean up its act ignores you completely. A company which makes a deal with you, takes your cash, but then reneges on the deal, and not only, does not give you your cash back, but continues to take extra billions off you years and years after the dodgy deal and gives you exactly nothing in return, would you actually want to continue dealing with that corrupt, unaccountable company?
Most sane people would want to steer clear of an organization as corrupt and unaccountable as that by a country mile.

Pan Pan Pan, you forgot the company that sends you a backdated supplementary invoice saying that they forgot the coke and hookers surcharge for the last x years, pointing to their E&OE clause.

[confused_buyer]

Pan Pan Pan said:

but continues to take extra billions off you years and years after the dodgy deal and gives you exactly nothing in return, would you actually want to continue dealing with that corrupt, unaccountable company?
Most sane people would want to steer clear of an organization as corrupt and unaccountable as that by a country mile.

You must be a customer of Anglian Water like I am.

[Hugh Jarse]

John145 said:

Einion Yrth said:

John145 said:

For me it's simply democracy and a chance to retrieve it.
It amazes me people are willing to give this up just for some perceived economic expediency.

It worries me even more that some of them attempt to claim that the EU is democratic.

Yes... You vote for an MEP therefore democracy. Hmm, let's think about the mechanisms at play here for a moment shall we...? No that's too difficult.

turbobloke said:

There's one chap who knew all about the Remain campaign many years ago.

H L Mencken said:

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed, and hence clamorous to be led to safety, by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

Love that quote, excellent stuff.
You didnt vote the 8 presidents in, and you cant vote them out, all other arguments are miniscule.
FREEDOM Gromit!
/ Wallace-Mode

[wc98]

CaptainSlow said:

turbobloke said:

ISWYM but it's curious that a group that's likely to be better educated on average are so willing to fall for Cameron's terminological inexactitudes and are unwilling to see the bigger picture beyond short-termisn. This sounds like a case of willingly worn blinkers.

I'd argue that the more educated are more used to believing what they are told.

this ^

[John145]

wc98 said:

CaptainSlow said:

turbobloke said:

ISWYM but it's curious that a group that's likely to be better educated on average are so willing to fall for Cameron's terminological inexactitudes and are unwilling to see the bigger picture beyond short-termisn. This sounds like a case of willingly worn blinkers.

I'd argue that the more educated are more used to believing what they are told.

this ^

I'd argue education > wealth > want to stay in

Uneducated > less well off > being shat on by the EU