Egypt Air flight MS804 missing!
Discussion
TheJimi said:
I'm with Ginetta on this one.
What you're seeing in GG's post is a manifestation of exasperation.
The PH air crash thread goes something like this.What you're seeing in GG's post is a manifestation of exasperation.
1 aircraft crashes/vanishes
2 people post some sensible information
3 people start suggesting causes based on guesswork and little knowledge
4 suggestions get wilder and people post more nonsense dressed as facts
5 people who know a bit more get annoyed and correct group 3 and 4 pointing out why.
6 group 3 and 4 react badly perhaps post some irrelevant info to support their nonsense,
7 GG appears, tells everyone she was in the RAF and tears a strip off group 3 and 4
8 group 3 and 4 turn on GG, lots of name calling - thread dies
A few days pass
9 cause of the crash is revealed.
10 people who dont have a clue manage to convince themselves they were actually right after all and tell everyone else to do one. Usually involving the phrase "pilot error" and calling for all sorts of nonsense changes.
1 plane crashes/vanishes
TheJimi said:
I'm with Ginetta on this one.
What you're seeing in GG's post is a manifestation of exasperation.
She reaches her exasperation threshold very, very quickly.What you're seeing in GG's post is a manifestation of exasperation.
I tend to keep off such discussions now because of the sheer anger that suddenly spews forth on occasions. It's all getting very unenjoyable.
Eric Mc said:
She reaches her exasperation threshold very, very quickly.
I tend to keep off such discussions now because of the sheer anger that suddenly spews forth on occasions. It's all getting very unenjoyable.
Oddly though, the PHs crash threads are usually better sources of information initially than sky news or other aviation websites. There are often people like air traffic controllers and others with very accurate information. I tend to keep off such discussions now because of the sheer anger that suddenly spews forth on occasions. It's all getting very unenjoyable.
Obviously they go downhill rapidly once the speculation starts.
Lots of people on PH have knowledge.
Thankfully most of us refrain from calling people "f
king idiots" whenever anyone asks what are regarded as silly questions.
She's one of those posters where every single time I read one of her posts there seems to be an unnecessary amount of attitude.
Explaining something "like it is" doesn't mean you have to be rude as you do it.
Thankfully most of us refrain from calling people "f
king idiots" whenever anyone asks what are regarded as silly questions.She's one of those posters where every single time I read one of her posts there seems to be an unnecessary amount of attitude.
Explaining something "like it is" doesn't mean you have to be rude as you do it.
Forgive my ignorance and terminology and apologies if it's already pointed out, but am I the only one who thought it slightly bizzare that like the Air Malaysia flight that both planes signed off from one ATC country but something happened before they had chance to sign in to another?
Or is it that there is/can be quite a bit of time from talking with the one before communication with the next?
Or is it that there is/can be quite a bit of time from talking with the one before communication with the next?
Wozy68 said:
Forgive my ignorance and terminology and apologies if it's already pointed out, but am I the only one who thought it slightly bizzare that like the Air Malaysia flight that both planes signed off from one ATC country but something happened before they had chance to sign in to another?
Or is it that there is/can be quite a bit of time from talking with the one before communication with the next?
No you're quite right, it is odd. Or is it that there is/can be quite a bit of time from talking with the one before communication with the next?
Some reports say that they did sign in with the Egyptians whilst the Egyptians themselves apparently say they didn't.
Cairo ATC (the people you speak to in this area) are notoriously poor though. They are hard to get hold of, after you leave the Greeks and their area is often a confusing gunfight with different aircraft all speaking over each other as the controllers control a huge area with poor equipment and poor radio discipline.
I expect this is somewhat improved now that nobody is flying to sharm el sheik on holiday anymore.
Wozy68 said:
Forgive my ignorance and terminology and apologies if it's already pointed out, but am I the only one who thought it slightly bizzare that like the Air Malaysia flight that both planes signed off from one ATC country but something happened before they had chance to sign in to another?
Or is it that there is/can be quite a bit of time from talking with the one before communication with the next?
Normally seconds. For example I work at London ATC and I transfer aircraft to Kapteinlangzaam at Maastricht control. I transmit "MSR780 contact Maastricht control frequency 132.205", the pilot dials those six numbers up and away they go chatting to Maastricht.Or is it that there is/can be quite a bit of time from talking with the one before communication with the next?
Edit: having just read El Stoveys response I should probably add that my example is from the civilised world with well maintained adequate equipment. I can only imagine the standard of Cairo ATC
Edited by djc206 on Sunday 22 May 18:36
el stovey said:
Cairo ATC (the people you speak to in this area) are notoriously poor though. They are hard to get hold of, after you leave the Greeks and their area is often a confusing gunfight with different aircraft all speaking over each other as the controllers control a huge area with poor equipment and poor radio discipline.
Well that's encouraging!Coupled to that, no doubt the maintenance guys have the same standards.
Where's my passport - not.
el stovey said:
Wozy68 said:
Forgive my ignorance and terminology and apologies if it's already pointed out, but am I the only one who thought it slightly bizzare that like the Air Malaysia flight that both planes signed off from one ATC country but something happened before they had chance to sign in to another?
Or is it that there is/can be quite a bit of time from talking with the one before communication with the next?
No you're quite right, it is odd. Or is it that there is/can be quite a bit of time from talking with the one before communication with the next?
Some reports say that they did sign in with the Egyptians whilst the Egyptians themselves apparently say they didn't.
Cairo ATC (the people you speak to in this area) are notoriously poor though. They are hard to get hold of, after you leave the Greeks and their area is often a confusing gunfight with different aircraft all speaking over each other as the controllers control a huge area with poor equipment and poor radio discipline.
I expect this is somewhat improved now that nobody is flying to sharm el sheik on holiday anymore.
djc206 said:
Wozy68 said:
Forgive my ignorance and terminology and apologies if it's already pointed out, but am I the only one who thought it slightly bizzare that like the Air Malaysia flight that both planes signed off from one ATC country but something happened before they had chance to sign in to another?
Or is it that there is/can be quite a bit of time from talking with the one before communication with the next?
Normally seconds. For example I work at London ATC and I transfer aircraft to Kapteinlangzaam at Maastricht control. I transmit "MSR780 contact Maastricht control frequency 132.205", the pilot dials those six numbers up and away they go chatting to Maastricht.Or is it that there is/can be quite a bit of time from talking with the one before communication with the next?
Edit: having just read El Stoveys response I should probably add that my example is from the civilised world with well maintained adequate equipment. I can only imagine the standard of Cairo ATC
Edited by djc206 on Sunday 22 May 18:36
djc206 said:
Normally seconds. For example I work at London ATC and I transfer aircraft to Kapteinlangzaam at Maastricht control. I transmit "MSR780 contact Maastricht control frequency 132.205", the pilot dials those six numbers up and away they go chatting to Maastricht.
You sure it's seconds, to a controller with that moniker ? (Yes, that is meant to be a joke).el stovey said:
The PH air crash thread goes something like this.
1 aircraft crashes/vanishes
2 people post some sensible information
3 people start suggesting causes based on guesswork and little knowledge
4 suggestions get wilder and people post more nonsense dressed as facts
5 people who know a bit more get annoyed and correct group 3 and 4 pointing out why.
6 group 3 and 4 react badly perhaps post some irrelevant info to support their nonsense,
7 GG appears, tells everyone she was in the RAF and tears a strip off group 3 and 4
8 group 3 and 4 turn on GG, lots of name calling - thread dies
A few days pass
9 cause of the crash is revealed.
10 people who dont have a clue manage to convince themselves they were actually right after all and tell everyone else to do one. Usually involving the phrase "pilot error" and calling for all sorts of nonsense changes.
1 plane crashes/vanishes
You missed, around 5/6/7, "someone asks, possibly not as politely as possible, whether the insurgents could possibly take their playground arguments elsewhere and allow the thread to continue, but gets rounded upon by said insurgents and therefore has to find their air crash information/discussion elsewhere".1 aircraft crashes/vanishes
2 people post some sensible information
3 people start suggesting causes based on guesswork and little knowledge
4 suggestions get wilder and people post more nonsense dressed as facts
5 people who know a bit more get annoyed and correct group 3 and 4 pointing out why.
6 group 3 and 4 react badly perhaps post some irrelevant info to support their nonsense,
7 GG appears, tells everyone she was in the RAF and tears a strip off group 3 and 4
8 group 3 and 4 turn on GG, lots of name calling - thread dies
A few days pass
9 cause of the crash is revealed.
10 people who dont have a clue manage to convince themselves they were actually right after all and tell everyone else to do one. Usually involving the phrase "pilot error" and calling for all sorts of nonsense changes.
1 plane crashes/vanishes
LambShank said:
I may have missed this, what with skim reading past the bickering...
But are there no fire suppressants in the hold on aircraft?
A320s have one fire extinguisher to supply both forward and aft holds. The holds have a smoke detection system which would display a flight deck warning if activated. The holds are not connected to the avionics bay.But are there no fire suppressants in the hold on aircraft?
djc206 said:
Normally seconds. For example I work at London ATC and I transfer aircraft to Kapteinlangzaam at Maastricht control. I transmit "MSR780 contact Maastricht control frequency 132.205", the pilot dials those six numbers up and away they go chatting to Maastricht.
Edit: having just read El Stoveys response I should probably add that my example is from the civilised world with well maintained adequate equipment. I can only imagine the standard of Cairo ATC
As people might expect, the standards of ATC vary massively around the world, Europe is largely excelent, with London and Maastricht being at the top of the list. The Greeks are near the bottom in Europe but still are much better than the Egyptians. Africa is largely poor. It reaches its worst near the horn of Africa where you speak to Mogadishu who are rarely even there. Edit: having just read El Stoveys response I should probably add that my example is from the civilised world with well maintained adequate equipment. I can only imagine the standard of Cairo ATC
In Europe now we often use datalink communications where we don't even talk on the radio at all and use something great called CPDLC. This magic thing involves sending and receiving clearances and requests by text message.
Datalink communication is great for oceanic areas like over the Atlantic where previously we had to use a rubbish HF radio, which was like talking down a device made of cups joined by string.
Some oceanic areas still involve using HF radios although many have been replaced by datalink communications. Some areas like the Indian Ocean and the Bay of Bengal involve having to speak to a heavily accented controller in India via an HF radio as the datalink isn't often working. This can be difficult and frustrating.
Prawo Jazdy said:
LambShank said:
I may have missed this, what with skim reading past the bickering...
But are there no fire suppressants in the hold on aircraft?
A320s have one fire extinguisher to supply both forward and aft holds. The holds have a smoke detection system which would display a flight deck warning if activated. The holds are not connected to the avionics bay.But are there no fire suppressants in the hold on aircraft?
Can't say I know much, if anything about planes, but surely where there is wiring there's also the potential fire risk?
I assume the avionics section is full of wiring?
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