Things are not looking good in Venezuela.
Discussion
essayer said:
Looks like Corbyn doesn't blame Chavez -
http://labourlist.org/2013/03/thank-you-hugo-chave...
"[Chavez] brought in a new constitution, improved the lives of the very poorest in his country, and forged a very special place on the world stage for Venezuela"
Smart man, and a truth-seeker.http://labourlist.org/2013/03/thank-you-hugo-chave...
"[Chavez] brought in a new constitution, improved the lives of the very poorest in his country, and forged a very special place on the world stage for Venezuela"
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/04/20/venezuelas-...
scherzkeks said:
essayer said:
Looks like Corbyn doesn't blame Chavez -
http://labourlist.org/2013/03/thank-you-hugo-chave...
"[Chavez] brought in a new constitution, improved the lives of the very poorest in his country, and forged a very special place on the world stage for Venezuela"
Smart man, and a truth-seeker.http://labourlist.org/2013/03/thank-you-hugo-chave...
"[Chavez] brought in a new constitution, improved the lives of the very poorest in his country, and forged a very special place on the world stage for Venezuela"
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/04/20/venezuelas-...
How many civilians have been put in aeroplanes and then dropped into the sea, a la Argentina. How many political opponents have been tortured to death in the national football stadium, a la Chile.
South America has long since been a basket case. But I'd rather be poor under a left wing regime who naively try to do a good thing and f
k it up, than dead under a right wing regime that treats the people as the enemy.
Thatcher liked to bang on about Pinochet being a good friend to Britain. Shame he wasn't a good friend to Chile!
South America has long since been a basket case. But I'd rather be poor under a left wing regime who naively try to do a good thing and f
k it up, than dead under a right wing regime that treats the people as the enemy.Thatcher liked to bang on about Pinochet being a good friend to Britain. Shame he wasn't a good friend to Chile!
loafer123 said:
essayer said:
Looks like Corbyn doesn't blame Chavez -
http://labourlist.org/2013/03/thank-you-hugo-chave...
"[Chavez] brought in a new constitution, improved the lives of the very poorest in his country, and forged a very special place on the world stage for Venezuela"
Translation:http://labourlist.org/2013/03/thank-you-hugo-chave...
"[Chavez] brought in a new constitution, improved the lives of the very poorest in his country, and forged a very special place on the world stage for Venezuela"
[Chavez] improved the lives of the very poorest in his country by redistributing the oil wealth, but failed to make structural reforms and invest for the future, so when oil revenues dropped, the country collapsed.
Sounds a bit like Scotland.
Gandahar said:
UK right wingers on PH who mostly have never been to the country cast their expertise over the matter ...
To be fair most countries in South America, run from right or left, are pretty poorly done by their politicians. In this case the collapse in oil prices is giving them a good kicking, unsurprisingly.
Of course the 1982 right wing Junta of Argentina are seen as stalwarts of good government on here of course. ho ho....
Interlude over, back to your reds under the beds diatribe.
You neatly sidestep of course the chorus of voices from the left (the usual suspects; Abbot, Owen Jones, Corbyn et al) that were holding up Venezuela as a model of how socialism could bring peace and prosperity to all.To be fair most countries in South America, run from right or left, are pretty poorly done by their politicians. In this case the collapse in oil prices is giving them a good kicking, unsurprisingly.
Of course the 1982 right wing Junta of Argentina are seen as stalwarts of good government on here of course. ho ho....
Interlude over, back to your reds under the beds diatribe.
Surely this beacon of the left can ride out a temporary fall in oil revenue, socialism has the welfare of the people as it's primary concern, doesn't it? So surely the first thing a socialist government would do would be to build a stable economy which can look after the people long-term?
But they didn't, did they.
As good socialists they set price controls, meaning the market couldn't react to changing commodity prices and customers subsequently finding shelves empty as producers couldn't even make products for the prices they were expected to sell them for. As a result, toilet paper is now worth more than banknotes. Yay socialism!
Socialism didn't cause this mess on it's own, poor leadership does not confine itself to the left. But socialism has made what should have been a drama into a humanitarian crisis and it's the people who are suffering the outcome.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
How many civilians have been put in aeroplanes and then dropped into the sea, a la Argentina. How many political opponents have been tortured to death in the national football stadium, a la Chile.
South America has long since been a basket case. But I'd rather be poor under a left wing regime who naively try to do a good thing and fk it up, than dead under a right wing regime that treats the people as the enemy.
Thatcher liked to bang on about Pinochet being a good friend to Britain. Shame he wasn't a good friend to Chile!
What? You mean you'd rather be a poor Ukrainian under Stalin than a poor German under Hitler?South America has long since been a basket case. But I'd rather be poor under a left wing regime who naively try to do a good thing and f
k it up, than dead under a right wing regime that treats the people as the enemy.Thatcher liked to bang on about Pinochet being a good friend to Britain. Shame he wasn't a good friend to Chile!
When are you guys going to wake up and realise that there is no real difference between a hard left and a hard right government, left vs right is just a game of misdirection.
XM5ER said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
How many civilians have been put in aeroplanes and then dropped into the sea, a la Argentina. How many political opponents have been tortured to death in the national football stadium, a la Chile.
South America has long since been a basket case. But I'd rather be poor under a left wing regime who naively try to do a good thing and fk it up, than dead under a right wing regime that treats the people as the enemy.
Thatcher liked to bang on about Pinochet being a good friend to Britain. Shame he wasn't a good friend to Chile!
What? You mean you'd rather be a poor Ukrainian under Stalin than a poor German under Hitler?South America has long since been a basket case. But I'd rather be poor under a left wing regime who naively try to do a good thing and f
k it up, than dead under a right wing regime that treats the people as the enemy.Thatcher liked to bang on about Pinochet being a good friend to Britain. Shame he wasn't a good friend to Chile!
When are you guys going to wake up and realise that there is no real difference between a hard left and a hard right government, left vs right is just a game of misdirection.
What evidence do you have of a murderous campaign by the Venezuelan govt against their own people?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Godwin strikes.
What evidence do you have of a murderous campaign by the Venezuelan govt against their own people?
Well you brought up the subject of vicious right wing juntas, I just brought it to it's logical conclusion without pages of nonsense. Why dont you naswer the question instead of posing another?What evidence do you have of a murderous campaign by the Venezuelan govt against their own people?
Here, I'll go first so that you know what it's like. In answer to your question above, I don't have any. I didn't realise it was a bring-a-story party I'd gatecrashed.
XM5ER said:
What? You mean you'd rather be a poor Ukrainian under Stalin than a poor German under Hitler?
When are you guys going to wake up and realise that there is no real difference between a hard left and a hard right government, left vs right is just a game of misdirection.
NP&E has Hitler down as a lefty. Please try to keep up to date with the current trends When are you guys going to wake up and realise that there is no real difference between a hard left and a hard right government, left vs right is just a game of misdirection.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
...I'd rather be poor under a left wing regime who naively try to do a good thing and fk it up, than dead under a right wing regime that treats the people as the enemy...
Cos life was just fvcking peachy in the USSR huh? You're a fool if you think either system is any better than the other. Arguably the right wing route is better for the majority with a minority brutalised and the leftwing route is better for a minority with the majority brutalised. Take your pick.k it up, than dead under a right wing regime that treats the people as the enemy...Strocky said:
loafer123 said:
Sounds a bit like Scotland.
Only if you put your fingers in your ears to drown out the voices in your headOT. I see the CyberSnats have turned on their only pro-indy allies already. Took them as long as the first vote in the new parliament.
r11co said:
Standard practice when it comes to Scottish Nationalists and criticism.
OT. I see the CyberSnats have turned on their only pro-indy allies already. Took them as long as the first vote in the new parliament.
CyberSnats?OT. I see the CyberSnats have turned on their only pro-indy allies already. Took them as long as the first vote in the new parliament.
That's poor even for you
Criticism is ok, hysterical shrieking, partisan analysis and downright lies deserve to be pointed and laughed at
It's called politics my dear boy although I'm surprised you wish to debate politics given the comprehensive humiliation your party endured under Dugdale, comrade
Strocky said:
r11co said:
Standard practice when it comes to Scottish Nationalists and criticism.
OT. I see the CyberSnats have turned on their only pro-indy allies already. Took them as long as the first vote in the new parliament.
CyberSnats?OT. I see the CyberSnats have turned on their only pro-indy allies already. Took them as long as the first vote in the new parliament.
That's poor even for you
Criticism is ok, hysterical shrieking, partisan analysis and downright lies deserve to be pointed and laughed at
It's called politics my dear boy although I'm surprised you wish to debate politics given the comprehensive humiliation your party endured under Dugdale, comrade
FAO: Nicola Sturgeon, St Andrew's House, Regent Road, Edinburgh, United Kingdom, EH1 3dG
Axionknight said:
A lesson Nicola Sturgeon could do with learning perhaps. Maybe you should send her it on a post it note?
FAO: Nicola Sturgeon, St Andrew's House, Regent Road, Edinburgh, United Kingdom, EH1 3dG
Love her or loathe her, she's leagues ahead of any other Holyrood politician, TBF it's like being the best dressed man in AlbaniaFAO: Nicola Sturgeon, St Andrew's House, Regent Road, Edinburgh, United Kingdom, EH1 3dG
fblm said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
...I'd rather be poor under a left wing regime who naively try to do a good thing and fk it up, than dead under a right wing regime that treats the people as the enemy...
Cos life was just fvcking peachy in the USSR huh? You're a fool if you think either system is any better than the other. k it up, than dead under a right wing regime that treats the people as the enemy...Strocky said:
Axionknight said:
A lesson Nicola Sturgeon could do with learning perhaps. Maybe you should send her it on a post it note?
FAO: Nicola Sturgeon, St Andrew's House, Regent Road, Edinburgh, United Kingdom, EH1 3dG
Love her or loathe her, she's leagues ahead of any other Holyrood politician, TBF it's like being the best dressed man in AlbaniaFAO: Nicola Sturgeon, St Andrew's House, Regent Road, Edinburgh, United Kingdom, EH1 3dG
spaximus said:
I may be wrong however I think the West have used oil as a weapon against Putin, forcing prices down. The problem is that it has hit every oil producing country. Saudi and Venezuela have been hit hard, Saudi had a cushion but others have not. Were Scotland independent now they would be struggling.
The big question is how far will this go? Millions being pumped into green technology, whilst we still have reserves of oil and gas to extract and now a country in turmoil?
I think you may be wrong The big question is how far will this go? Millions being pumped into green technology, whilst we still have reserves of oil and gas to extract and now a country in turmoil?
The Saudi's themselves are the architects of this.
They decided to open the taps, primarily to put the (now self-sufficient) US oilfields out of business and capture the market share.
The low price does suit the West as Russia doesn't have as much money to spend on its military and really, suits everybody else as well apart from countries dependent on their oil economy and people in the oil industry.
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