Things are not looking good in Venezuela.
Discussion
Sylvaforever said:
BigMon said:
Alex said:
Socialism breeds corruption.
Good one!I'll add that to my list of 'ludicrous right wing comments uttered on Pistonheads'.
Power breeds corruption, and Venezuela has had plenty of examples of right wing governments just as bad as this one, in their own ways. Take a look at this guy, Juan Vicente Gomez
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Vicente_G%C3%B3...
My wife's grandfather was a newspaper editor at the time of Gomez, and printed a few things the dictator did not like. He used to show his grandchildren the scars on his wrists and ankles from when he was chained to the wall of his prison cell. Gomez ended up the richest man in the country, much of the oil wealth having headed his way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Vicente_G%C3%B3...
My wife's grandfather was a newspaper editor at the time of Gomez, and printed a few things the dictator did not like. He used to show his grandchildren the scars on his wrists and ankles from when he was chained to the wall of his prison cell. Gomez ended up the richest man in the country, much of the oil wealth having headed his way.
Roofless Toothless said:
Power breeds corruption, and Venezuela has had plenty of examples of right wing governments just as bad as this one, in their own ways. Take a look at this guy, Juan Vicente Gomez
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Vicente_G%C3%B3...
My wife's grandfather was a newspaper editor at the time of Gomez, and printed a few things the dictator did not like. He used to show his grandchildren the scars on his wrists and ankles from when he was chained to the wall of his prison cell. Gomez ended up the richest man in the country, much of the oil wealth having headed his way.
Shush with your common sense! It's all the fault of the lefties and the socialists.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Vicente_G%C3%B3...
My wife's grandfather was a newspaper editor at the time of Gomez, and printed a few things the dictator did not like. He used to show his grandchildren the scars on his wrists and ankles from when he was chained to the wall of his prison cell. Gomez ended up the richest man in the country, much of the oil wealth having headed his way.
BigMon said:
Roofless Toothless said:
Power breeds corruption, and Venezuela has had plenty of examples of right wing governments just as bad as this one, in their own ways. Take a look at this guy, Juan Vicente Gomez
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Vicente_G%C3%B3...
My wife's grandfather was a newspaper editor at the time of Gomez, and printed a few things the dictator did not like. He used to show his grandchildren the scars on his wrists and ankles from when he was chained to the wall of his prison cell. Gomez ended up the richest man in the country, much of the oil wealth having headed his way.
Shush with your common sense! It's all the fault of the lefties and the socialists.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Vicente_G%C3%B3...
My wife's grandfather was a newspaper editor at the time of Gomez, and printed a few things the dictator did not like. He used to show his grandchildren the scars on his wrists and ankles from when he was chained to the wall of his prison cell. Gomez ended up the richest man in the country, much of the oil wealth having headed his way.
El Presidente has apparently promised guns for his militia and banned private firearm ownership. Quite a few people have been killed already by his goons by the sound of things and this seems to be the cause of the latest protests.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/18/venezuelas...
http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg...
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/18/venezuelas...
http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg...
PH XKR said:
It is all the fault of flogging your commodities with the Chinese and pinning your economy to that one major commodity which the Saudis are now decimating. So a bit of Left and Right
When that major commodity was over $100 a barrel Venezuela was still getting deeper into deficit. The current shortages are to do with government meddling such as price controls. It's noticeable that when high oil prices were just about masking the chaos lefties like Owen Jones and Jeremy Corbyn were hailing Venezuela as a perfect example of socialism in action and suggesting that the UK should copy their policies. Now it's clear that it's the same basket case as any other implementation of Socialism 1.0, suddenly it's nothing to do with socialism.
Dr Jekyll said:
PH XKR said:
It is all the fault of flogging your commodities with the Chinese and pinning your economy to that one major commodity which the Saudis are now decimating. So a bit of Left and Right
When that major commodity was over $100 a barrel Venezuela was still getting deeper into deficit. The current shortages are to do with government meddling such as price controls. It's noticeable that when high oil prices were just about masking the chaos lefties like Owen Jones and Jeremy Corbyn were hailing Venezuela as a perfect example of socialism in action and suggesting that the UK should copy their policies. Now it's clear that it's the same basket case as any other implementation of Socialism 1.0, suddenly it's nothing to do with socialism.
It is not particularly corruption that is devastating Venezuela; all Latin American countries are corrupt, but some manage to have functioning economies.
Venezuela's problem is that it is run by incompetents.
Chavez was, and Maduro is, not the brightest spanner in the toolbox.
Venezuela was, at one point, the third or forth biggest oil producer in the world. It still has the world's largest oil resources.
Enter Sr Chavez, an ill-educated, low-ranking infantryman, to run things.
He promptly fired oil company executives (the people who knew how to make the wells pump oil), and replaced them with hi cronies. He stopped paying foreign oil contractors (who packed their bags and left). The wells became unproductive. Even when oil was at $100 a barrel, Venezuela could not make any money and production declined.
Whatever money was made, was handed over to the poor to by their votes. Even at $100 a barrel, there was no money for investment, public services, security or healthcare.
When the oil price collapsed, so did Venezuela.
As an insight into Maduro's economic literacy, a couple of years ago he became annoyed that poor people could not afford to buy the latest flat screen TVs. He therefore ordered electronics shops to reduce their prices. Result = a few people got cheap tellys, and the electronic shop owners lost money and decided not to import any more TVs, so they closed their stores. result = nobody has new TVs.
Chavez / Maduro also nationalised banks, breweries, pension funds, you name it. Result = capital flight of massive proportions. Anyone of any wealth in Venezuela has their money in Panama or Miami.
It will get a lot worse before it gets better
Venezuela's problem is that it is run by incompetents.
Chavez was, and Maduro is, not the brightest spanner in the toolbox.
Venezuela was, at one point, the third or forth biggest oil producer in the world. It still has the world's largest oil resources.
Enter Sr Chavez, an ill-educated, low-ranking infantryman, to run things.
He promptly fired oil company executives (the people who knew how to make the wells pump oil), and replaced them with hi cronies. He stopped paying foreign oil contractors (who packed their bags and left). The wells became unproductive. Even when oil was at $100 a barrel, Venezuela could not make any money and production declined.
Whatever money was made, was handed over to the poor to by their votes. Even at $100 a barrel, there was no money for investment, public services, security or healthcare.
When the oil price collapsed, so did Venezuela.
As an insight into Maduro's economic literacy, a couple of years ago he became annoyed that poor people could not afford to buy the latest flat screen TVs. He therefore ordered electronics shops to reduce their prices. Result = a few people got cheap tellys, and the electronic shop owners lost money and decided not to import any more TVs, so they closed their stores. result = nobody has new TVs.
Chavez / Maduro also nationalised banks, breweries, pension funds, you name it. Result = capital flight of massive proportions. Anyone of any wealth in Venezuela has their money in Panama or Miami.
It will get a lot worse before it gets better
Ayahuasca said:
Venezuela's problem is that it is run by incompetents.
Agreed. The situation there is now very bad. People are finding it hard to earn enough to buy food. It must feel like the Apocalypse.In cases like these they need regime change. Like as not brought about through armed revolution. Can't imagine anything worse.
...and Venezuela should be rich!
I think you could similarly argue that most governments are run by incompetents!
This article covers the depth of involvement of the Maduro clan in drug running
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3314479/Ne...
Note that this extends beyond the family to senior levels of the armed forces, probably explaining why there hasn't been a military coup up to now - the traditional way of getting rid of useless governments in the past. It is not that Maduro and the military are protecting the drug runners - they ARE the drug runners.
It seems like running the country, however badly is just a side line while the family stashes away their millions.
My wife has been in contact with her family in Caracas today and has been told a couple of interesting things.
The word is that Maduro family members have been running to places of safety outside the country, so it looks like they may know the game is up.
Secondly, Maduro has been arming the motor cycle gangs that have been kidnapping and robbing in the street, in order to kill randomly and terrorise people to stay indoors. Apparently, the National Guard has now begun shooting back at them. There looks like there is the start of a split between the various armed forces. This isn't going to end until either the Army, The National Guard or the Police start to rebel against the government.
The reason why the demonstrations have carried on is that people are starting to starve sitting in their own homes. They feel they may as well be out on the street risking getting shot at. There is not much choice one way or the other.
The British Socialists pictured in the posts above are absolute fools for chummying up to Chavez and Maduro. They clearly have no idea of the realities of the situation. In the beginning, I think Chavez served a useful purpose in politicising the working poor - previous political parties simply ignored them, representing the small middle class and wealthy elite. (The two main parties in the country were nick-named Coca Cola and Pepsi Cola, there was so little difference between them.) Poor people were simply outside of the system, and they deserved more than that. But it didn't take long for the stupidity and corruption endemic in Latin American governance to kick in, and here we are today.
This article covers the depth of involvement of the Maduro clan in drug running
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3314479/Ne...
Note that this extends beyond the family to senior levels of the armed forces, probably explaining why there hasn't been a military coup up to now - the traditional way of getting rid of useless governments in the past. It is not that Maduro and the military are protecting the drug runners - they ARE the drug runners.
It seems like running the country, however badly is just a side line while the family stashes away their millions.
My wife has been in contact with her family in Caracas today and has been told a couple of interesting things.
The word is that Maduro family members have been running to places of safety outside the country, so it looks like they may know the game is up.
Secondly, Maduro has been arming the motor cycle gangs that have been kidnapping and robbing in the street, in order to kill randomly and terrorise people to stay indoors. Apparently, the National Guard has now begun shooting back at them. There looks like there is the start of a split between the various armed forces. This isn't going to end until either the Army, The National Guard or the Police start to rebel against the government.
The reason why the demonstrations have carried on is that people are starting to starve sitting in their own homes. They feel they may as well be out on the street risking getting shot at. There is not much choice one way or the other.
The British Socialists pictured in the posts above are absolute fools for chummying up to Chavez and Maduro. They clearly have no idea of the realities of the situation. In the beginning, I think Chavez served a useful purpose in politicising the working poor - previous political parties simply ignored them, representing the small middle class and wealthy elite. (The two main parties in the country were nick-named Coca Cola and Pepsi Cola, there was so little difference between them.) Poor people were simply outside of the system, and they deserved more than that. But it didn't take long for the stupidity and corruption endemic in Latin American governance to kick in, and here we are today.
This is a f
king nightmare, I feel for the people there having to live through it.
What concerns me is the talk about guns and crack-down on protestors, that's when you know things have hit rock-bottom.
Core-Blimey and his mad left socialist buddies should hang their heads in shame for their prior public support of these thuggish left-wing criminals who have screwed Venezuela.
king nightmare, I feel for the people there having to live through it.What concerns me is the talk about guns and crack-down on protestors, that's when you know things have hit rock-bottom.
Core-Blimey and his mad left socialist buddies should hang their heads in shame for their prior public support of these thuggish left-wing criminals who have screwed Venezuela.
Likes Fast Cars said:
Core-Blimey and his mad left socialist buddies should hang their heads in shame for their prior public support of these thuggish left-wing criminals who have screwed Venezuela.
Very true. Quite how we have arrived at a position where far left aren't treated with the same scorn as far right is unbelievable.What the left call far right these days is centre right at worse which makes the citation even more bizarre.
The socialist approach has been proven time and again to fail so why it is tolerated any longer is beyond my comprehension.
Ayahuasca said:
Hard to believe that Maduro is into drug-running - it is small change compared to the oil revenues he is probably stealing.
I know it's Wikipedia, but ...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcosobrinos_inci...
"Hugo Chávez statue torn down as death toll rises in Venezuela protests
Young protester shot in the head amid continuation of demonstrations that brand President Nicolás Maduro a dictator and demand elections"
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/06/hugo...
Young protester shot in the head amid continuation of demonstrations that brand President Nicolás Maduro a dictator and demand elections"
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/06/hugo...
BlackLabel said:
"Hugo Chávez statue torn down as death toll rises in Venezuela protests
Young protester shot in the head amid continuation of demonstrations that brand President Nicolás Maduro a dictator and demand elections"
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/06/hugo...
This is just sad to see people being murdered (I deliberately use that word) by so-called "security forces", "police" etc. Given the crap going on there I don't blame the protestors for getting out there and trying to bring about change and make a difference, I hope the deaths of innocents won't be for nothing.Young protester shot in the head amid continuation of demonstrations that brand President Nicolás Maduro a dictator and demand elections"
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/06/hugo...
Down with the far-left dictators!
Likes Fast Cars said:
BlackLabel said:
"Hugo Chávez statue torn down as death toll rises in Venezuela protests
Young protester shot in the head amid continuation of demonstrations that brand President Nicolás Maduro a dictator and demand elections"
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/06/hugo...
This is just sad to see people being murdered (I deliberately use that word) by so-called "security forces", "police" etc. Given the crap going on there I don't blame the protestors for getting out there and trying to bring about change and make a difference, I hope the deaths of innocents won't be for nothing.Young protester shot in the head amid continuation of demonstrations that brand President Nicolás Maduro a dictator and demand elections"
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/06/hugo...
Down with the far-left dictators!
Someone will soon assure us that that wasn't 'real Marxism'.
No doubt whoever takes over will show the world how it's done properly.
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