Atheists officially outnumber Christians for the 1st time

[///ajd]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

But it's not 49% atheist, it's 49% no religion. 2 entirely separate things. I wish it were 49% atheist, or better still 100% atheist, but alas it's not the case.

I'm not so sure how important the distinction is.

Yes, no religion could include deists, but I get the impression (maybe wrongly) that deists who reject all known religions are relatively rare - total guess would put them at 1-3%?

You'd only need 51% to vote secular to make it happen. Imagine no more religious schools in the UK - of any flavour.

[gadgetmac]

///ajd said:

looking again at the original post, the shift in numbers is huge

2011 - 25% atheist
2015 - 49% atheist

by 2020 that could be well into 60-70%

it would be interesting to know if the majority of these atheists would vote for a secular state and schooling.

now that would be a worthwhile referendum, rather than this EU nonsense!

2 points.

1. Much of the growth in Atheism can, paradoxically, be directly attributed to the rise in the more aggressive/militant forms of religion that have sprung up in the last couple of decades. This has caused those of a more questioning nature (especially in the west) to question not just (say) Islam or Christianity but the whole concept of a god head and we have used Science and Scientific rationale to guide us.

2. Globally this 'growth' in Atheism in the west is being more than countered by the growth in religion in other parts of the world as Muslims and Hindus etc have breeding rates (and an indoctrination system) that far outstrip those of the secular states. Religion, globally, is on the rise.

Eric earlier on said

Eric Mc said:

You can have over zealous evangelic atheists as surely as you can have over zealous religious evangelists.

Both are equally annoying.

Sadly this may be true but (to employ a footballing analogy) worldwide Religion is 10-0 up at half time and coming out for the 2nd half the Atheists have just lost their star striker. Globally the Atheists are boxed in and the box is getting smaller, you only have to look at the murders of Atheist bloggers in Bangladesh to see this in action. In many respects more affirmative action by atheists may be what is required to save the planet from the onslaught of ignorance. Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and Dennetts type of evangelic atheism may be too little too late.

[standards]

Derek Smith said:

There was a certain irony in that there was an attempt to prosecute the publishers of The Satanic Verses for blasphemy but it fell at the first hurdle as the law only protected christians.

IIRC it only protected Her Majesty's C. of E.!

[///ajd]

gadgetmac said:

///ajd said:

looking again at the original post, the shift in numbers is huge

2011 - 25% atheist
2015 - 49% atheist

by 2020 that could be well into 60-70%

it would be interesting to know if the majority of these atheists would vote for a secular state and schooling.

now that would be a worthwhile referendum, rather than this EU nonsense!

2 points.

1. Much of the growth in Atheism can, paradoxically, be directly attributed to the rise in the more aggressive/militant forms of religion that have sprung up in the last couple of decades. This has caused those of a more questioning nature (especially in the west) to question not just (say) Islam or Christianity but the whole concept of a god head and we have used Science and Scientific rationale to guide us.

2. Globally this 'growth' in Atheism in the west is being more than countered by the growth in religion in other parts of the world as Muslims and Hindus etc have breeding rates (and an indoctrination system) that far outstrip those of the secular states. Religion, globally, is on the rise.

Eric earlier on said

Eric Mc said:

You can have over zealous evangelic atheists as surely as you can have over zealous religious evangelists.

Both are equally annoying.

Sadly this may be true but (to employ a footballing analogy) worldwide Religion is 10-0 up at half time and coming out for the 2nd half the Atheists have just lost their star striker. Globally the Atheists are boxed in and the box is getting smaller, you only have to look at the murders of Atheist bloggers in Bangladesh to see this in action. In many respects more affirmative action by atheists may be what is required to save the planet from the onslaught of ignorance. Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and Dennetts type of evangelic atheism may be too little too late.

I recognise your concern, but a secular UK state without religious schools might start to embed a secular more tolerate society view, less obsessed with religious doctrine and its prejudice.

I'm not sure I'd describe Hitchens as annoying.

Even Ken Ham is not annoying, just hatstand bonkers

[Eric Mc]

Yes, the survey particularly mentions Christians but doesn't talk about the many alternative theologies available for those so inclined.

Just because one doesn't profess to being a Christian doesn't automatically make one an atheist.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

///ajd said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

But it's not 49% atheist, it's 49% no religion. 2 entirely separate things. I wish it were 49% atheist, or better still 100% atheist, but alas it's not the case.

I'm not so sure how important the distinction is.

Yes, no religion could include deists, but I get the impression (maybe wrongly) that deists who reject all known religions are relatively rare - total guess would put them at 1-3%?

You'd only need 51% to vote secular to make it happen. Imagine no more religious schools in the UK - of any flavour.

See my first post on this thread on the first page. Traditionally atheists make up about 6% of the UK population. That may have grown marginally but I'd be surprised if we're into double figures yet. I hardly know anyone who is religious or would describe themselves as having a religion, but most of them aren't atheists.

[otolith]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

See my first post on this thread on the first page. Traditionally atheists make up about 6% of the UK population. That may have grown marginally but I'd be surprised if we're into double figures yet. I hardly know anyone who is religious or would describe themselves as having a religion, but most of them aren't atheists.

They don't have a religion, but there are gods they believe in?

[///ajd]

it is a bit odd, but having googled it does seem that confirmed atheism is only a fraction of those saying they have no religion.

perhaps they are reluctant to say atheist - i recall i used to worry about being labelled an atheist, i thought it was a negative thing (now who could have planted that idea...!)

still, ignoring atheism, i wonder what proportion of the 50% and growing religionless would think no religion in school might be a good thing.

[anonymous-user]

otolith said:

They don't have a religion, but there are gods they believe in?

Yes. Spiritual but not religious. They believe in the existence of Gods or higher powers but don't necessarily adhere to any particular religion or wa yof life.

[otolith]

I have met people like that, but far fewer than I have people who would not describe themselves as atheists (because they incorrectly believe that means being sure there aren't any gods) but who do not actually believe in any.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This! Typical sort of thing would be "there's definitely something bigger than us" or "I believe I'm here for a purpose" or "everything happens for a reason, it's fate", whilst having no connection or interest in any form of organised religion.

Which is absolutely their prerogative.

[///ajd]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes, no problem with that.

I must confess I don't know many people like that - do you think they'd support secular schooling? It sounds like they effectively reject things like the bible or koran?

I suspect there might be a large 'no change' sentiment. I.e. my CofE education did me no harm so no need to change. I get that as it applies to me. There is a certain charm to the CofE, like a familiar old cosy blanket. I do get that.