The 1975 EEC referendum

[Einion Yrth]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I was 13 in 1975 but we had a vote in school and I voted not to join. This time I shall vote to remain in.

There's a lot of arguments both ways but the leave camp definitely has a far higher number of scumbags I utterly despise on board. I can't help thinking that being in the opposite camp to Katie fking Hopkins, Ian an Smith, that tt Farage and Gove, has got to be the right way forward.

I'm just hoping the Catholic church will declare itself in the leave camp and then I'll know for certain I'm on the right track.

You're voting on personalities?

Pathetic, you don't deserve a vote.

[steveT350C]

Einion Yrth said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I was 13 in 1975 but we had a vote in school and I voted not to join. This time I shall vote to remain in.

There's a lot of arguments both ways but the leave camp definitely has a far higher number of scumbags I utterly despise on board. I can't help thinking that being in the opposite camp to Katie fking Hopkins, Ian an Smith, that tt Farage and Gove, has got to be the right way forward.

I'm just hoping the Catholic church will declare itself in the leave camp and then I'll know for certain I'm on the right track.

You're voting on personalities?

Pathetic, you don't deserve a vote.

The remains always end up having to play the man and not the ball

[unrepentant]

Einion Yrth said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I was 13 in 1975 but we had a vote in school and I voted not to join. This time I shall vote to remain in.

There's a lot of arguments both ways but the leave camp definitely has a far higher number of scumbags I utterly despise on board. I can't help thinking that being in the opposite camp to Katie fking Hopkins, Ian an Smith, that tt Farage and Gove, has got to be the right way forward.

I'm just hoping the Catholic church will declare itself in the leave camp and then I'll know for certain I'm on the right track.

You're voting on personalities?

Pathetic, you don't deserve a vote.

Why? If people whom I respect like Branson, Obama, Merkel, Stuart Rose, Major etc.. all put the case to stay I'm going to listen. If people I detest like Trump, Gove, Farage and that tt Boris Johnson are all pushing for Brexit I will also listen. All will help to influence my decision. Nothing wrong with that at all. Who the fk are you to tell anyone they don't deserve a vote you pompous ?

[MarshPhantom]

Einion Yrth said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I was 13 in 1975 but we had a vote in school and I voted not to join. This time I shall vote to remain in.

There's a lot of arguments both ways but the leave camp definitely has a far higher number of scumbags I utterly despise on board. I can't help thinking that being in the opposite camp to Katie fking Hopkins, Ian an Smith, that tt Farage and Gove, has got to be the right way forward.

I'm just hoping the Catholic church will declare itself in the leave camp and then I'll know for certain I'm on the right track.

You're voting on personalities?

Pathetic, you don't deserve a vote.

He's saying he can see arguments on both sides but has been tipped one way by the scumbags and liars representing team Brexit.

[Beati Dogu]

Eric Mc said:

I would wager that even if people thought that sovereignty was an issue back in 1975, they still would have voted "yes" on the basis that the current governments and unions of the day were effectively destroying the country between them.

The British establishment clearly thought the public would oppose it. It's why the Euro-obsessive Heath rammed it through without public consultation and they went to such lengths to hide both the superstate plan and the loss of sovereignty that selling us out entailed. Something they still try to play down for the same reasons.

Eric Mc said:

The UK was economically on its knees by 1975. ANYTHING seemed better than where things stood at that time. Indeed, in 1975/76, Britain came closest to a military coup than at any time since the Civil War.

The EEC was looked on as a form of "rescue" - as it often is perceived by countries gagging to join.

We'd already been in the EEC/EU/Whatever for two and a half years by the time of the 1975 referendum. If it was a "rescue" then so is throwing a drowning man a concrete block.

[Einion Yrth]

MarshPhantom said:

Einion Yrth said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I was 13 in 1975 but we had a vote in school and I voted not to join. This time I shall vote to remain in.

There's a lot of arguments both ways but the leave camp definitely has a far higher number of scumbags I utterly despise on board. I can't help thinking that being in the opposite camp to Katie fking Hopkins, Ian an Smith, that tt Farage and Gove, has got to be the right way forward.

I'm just hoping the Catholic church will declare itself in the leave camp and then I'll know for certain I'm on the right track.

You're voting on personalities?

Pathetic, you don't deserve a vote.

He's saying he can see arguments on both sides but has been tipped one way by the scumbags and liars representing team Brexit.

I see plenty of "scumbags and liars" in the remain camp too. Point stands.

[anonymous-user]

RYH64E said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Eric Mc said:

And not forgetting the state of the UK as an economy and what it had just come through back in 1975.

Yes. it was in a dire position then, with James Callaghan having to go cap in hand to the IMF for a bailout. Possibly one of the UK`s lowest points since WW2?

Whereas today the UK is doing quite well, the economy is growing, employment is high, life is good...

Our economy isn't failing in the same way as that of Greece, we don't have high rates of unemployment as is the case in Spain and Italy, our economy isn't in recession, we're not part of Schengen and don't have open borders, we're not accepting millions of refugees as is the case in Germany, we're not tied to the euro and still have control over our currency... We're part of the EU and we're doing well, within the EU. What's the problem?

Still banging that drum?

We're doing OK despite being in the EU. We wo wildly be, clearly, were we doing all those things that you have indicated that we aren't.

But we will be in a few years if we remain. Then we'll go down with the rest of them.

But I guess your interest is to make money for you before that happens and hang the future?

[RYH64E]

REALIST123 said:

Still banging that drum?

We're doing OK despite being in the EU. We wo wildly be, clearly, were we doing all those things that you have indicated that we aren't.

But we will be in a few years if we remain. Then we'll go down with the rest of them.

But I guess your interest is to make money for you before that happens and hang the future?

Making money (consequently employing people and paying taxes) is certainly part of the plan and the single market helps in that regard, for my business, other export oriented UK businesses, and those financial institutions in the city using the UK as a gateway to the wider EU market. We've done well as a country in the EU up to now and there's no reason to think that we won't continue to do well in the future, within the EU.

I'm coming to the end of my career, a few more years and I'll be selling up and retiring, but if I were 30 years younger I'd be even more pro-EU membership, free and unfettered access to the single market is a fantastic opportunity for those minded to take advantage of it.

[alfie2244]

RYH64E said:

I'm coming to the end of my career, a few more years and I'll be selling up and retiring,

Should give you plenty of time to go on some jolly boys coach outings to places like, Kent and Sussex... were called beanos when I was a kid and they threw 6d coins out of the windows as they drove away.

couldn't resist sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7CpkzJU9kA

Edited by alfie2244 on Tuesday 24th May 21:39

[Eric Mc]

Beati Dogu said:

We'd already been in the EEC/EU/Whatever for two and a half years by the time of the 1975 referendum. If it was a "rescue" then so is throwing a drowning man a concrete block.

I'm not saying it WAS a rescue - I'm just talking about perceptions at the time.

[Beati Dogu]

Eric Mc said:

I'm not saying it WAS a rescue - I'm just talking about perceptions at the time.

I don't know. I was only little and my parents were working abroad due to the lousy state of the economy, out of control unions and the disastrous Labour government. They didn't get to vote as a result. They're both solidly for getting our independence back this time though. As am I of course.

[Eric Mc]

I was 17 at the time and living in Ireland - so couldn't vote for those two reasons. However, we all followed the campaigning that was going on in the UK at the time so were well aware of the issues being debated and the different stances being taken by the various groups.

Ireland had held its own referendum in 1972 - BEFORE it joined the EEC.

[jakesmith]

superlightr said:

can I have a go as well.....

Its like being in a 40+ year abusive relationship.

You are unappreciated, abused, money taken from, bent over backwards and shafted, shouted down and told what to do, told you will fail if you leave the relationship, told you are useless and cant survive being outside, no one will like or be friends with you ever plus you will be poor forever and you've never had it so good as you do now and perhaps if you wont be abused AS much in the future if you keep quiet now.

It' a misleading comparison. We'll still have to have all sorts of relationships with other entities if we leave that will require compromise left right and centre, on all sorts of issues. Our economy is in good shape, unemployment falling. Why risk changing it for a completely abstract and possiy unachievable concept such as 'sovereignty' which will actually make almost no difference to anything.

The brexit people are reducing a highly complex set of arguments to a purely emotive one. I'm a pragmatist. Do I find it unsavory that a tiny number of fat cats are creaming a load of cash off us and throwing some red tape our way? Of course. Is that likely to stop if we leave Europe and potentially trash our exonomy for 15 years? Of course not! There will still be a political class, and their corruption.

For me it's about the ends, not the means. About the output, not the input. The cost of being in Europe is a tiny fraction of gdp, can we swallow it, yes we can. Are we comfortable that we can swallow the impact of leaving? No, because noone has a clue what that would be. Anxd are we likely to get all the nasty foreigners out if we leave? Of course not!

[Murph7355]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I would wager that Angela Merkel has got a bit more about her than Katie fking Hopkins. (Sorry, her and Danny fking Dyer, I can't say their names without putting the f word in the middle.)

I don't disagree with that. But then if you categorise people like Iain Duncan Smith with the likes of Katie Hopkins and Danny Dyer I suspect you need to go and sit in a darkened room somewhere

Why on Earth would you care what Katie Hopkins or Danny Dyer think? And why would you let such an important decision be influenced by nobodies of their stature?

As for the politicians you note, my question remains. Do you really think Junckers is any better than Farage? Myopic in the extreme.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Einion Yrth said:

MarshPhantom said:

Einion Yrth said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I was 13 in 1975 but we had a vote in school and I voted not to join. This time I shall vote to remain in.

There's a lot of arguments both ways but the leave camp definitely has a far higher number of scumbags I utterly despise on board. I can't help thinking that being in the opposite camp to Katie fking Hopkins, Ian an Smith, that tt Farage and Gove, has got to be the right way forward.

I'm just hoping the Catholic church will declare itself in the leave camp and then I'll know for certain I'm on the right track.

You're voting on personalities?

Pathetic, you don't deserve a vote.

He's saying he can see arguments on both sides but has been tipped one way by the scumbags and liars representing team Brexit.

I see plenty of "scumbags and liars" in the remain camp too. Point stands.

Not nearly as many though. Whilst I can see convincing arguments on both sides of the campaign, what isn't really in dispute is that the leave campaign seems to have attracted far more scumbags. People I know who are voting to leave accept this without question, and are quite embarrassed by it.

Do you not feel slightly uncomfortable being on the same side as George Galloway?

[Puggit]

Murph7355 said:

As for the politicians you note, my question remains. Do you really think Junckers is any better than Farage? Myopic in the extreme.

It's worth pointing out that one is an unelected drunk megalomaniac who doesn't give a st what you think, the other is campaigning to make himself jobless (and enjoys a drink).

If my statements above don't make people vote OUT, then I don't know what else I can do. Why do so many people believe in this broken project?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Puggit said:

If my statements above don't make people vote OUT, then I don't know what else I can do. Why do so many people believe in this broken project?

Because not all parts of the project are broken. There's been a lot of talk about air travel in recent days. There's an industry that has been revolutionised for the better by the EU. Cheap flights around Europe, quick and easy. People talk about being ruled by Europe, but 96% of the votes taken by the EU over the last 5 years have gone in our favour, the way we voted. We've been on the losing side in 4%. So "ruled by Europe" is a contentious point, as by and large it does what we want it to do anyway.

Certain aspects of the project have been a real benefit. So a legitimate question is do we stay in, benefit from the good stuff and try and convince others to see the bad stuff and fix it, or walk away from the project completely, forgoing the benefits.

[jakesmith]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You're viewing an almost infinitely complex and unpredictable situation, through the lense of a much simpler one that you have seen work up close. There is no reason why the isolation of the UK and resulting turmoil, would bear any resemblance to your laudable but personal sucess story.

I know nothing about you but based purely on your post above, it's hardly surprising that an individual that works hard, takes some chances and has sucess, views this as a winning formula, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the UK would as a whole replicate the actions and circumstances that have favoured you and your life, or achieve the same result.

Being in Europe has seen us do incredibly well so far. I was preparing a very topline summary report for my European colleagues on the UK economy recently and consumer confidence, GDP per head and unemployment are all moving in a positive direction and have done for some time.

Question for you, how well would your life story have played out if it was in an unprecedented period of economic uncertainty, and are you sure that Brexit wouldn't potentially scupper many others who would like to follow in your footsteps?

[55palfers]

colonel c said:

As I remember it. I voted for a 'Common Market', not a 'European Union'.


I don't intend to make the same mistake.

Me too!

[Murph7355]

jakesmith said:

...
Being in Europe has seen us do incredibly well so far. I was preparing a very topline summary report for my European colleagues on the UK economy recently and consumer confidence, GDP per head and unemployment are all moving in a positive direction and have done for some time.

Question for you, how well would your life story have played out if it was in an unprecedented period of economic uncertainty, and are you sure that Brexit wouldn't potentially scupper many others who would like to follow in your footsteps?

No one can be sure about anything on economics.

For example, can you be sure that the UK wouldn't have done better had it been outside the EU for the last 40yrs?

Us doing well may or may not be down to us being in Europe. And you can use data points to "prove" things either way. It's political...