Racism and Brexit...
Discussion
fblm said:
I've wavered from one side to the other a few times but regardless which side I find myself on, as I see it, the government had the responsibility at the outset to set the tone of the debate; honest, open and factual. The rag tag coalition of Brexiters were always going to end up being dragged down by the lowest common denominator in their ranks. Unfortunately the government came right out the blocks with unsubstantiated horses
t about millions of job losses and an honest debate never got out the blocks. For the weight of the establishment to be whining about the underdog 'constantly peddling falsehoods' beggars belief. I wouldn't savour others 'humiliation' for too long though, it just might bite you in the ass after you win!
I read a fair bit on the benefits/negatives of remaining in the EU and the same for leaving a few months ago, before we had 'camps'. When I now read the latest from either side I become irritated because most of it is, at the very best, speculative. What remains are downright lies.t about millions of job losses and an honest debate never got out the blocks. For the weight of the establishment to be whining about the underdog 'constantly peddling falsehoods' beggars belief. I wouldn't savour others 'humiliation' for too long though, it just might bite you in the ass after you win!With the intention to remain open-minded until the day before the vote - my norm for general and local elections - I generally read the pronouncements but if it is from the leave campaign I become more and more convinced to stay. But no problem. If I find myself making my mind up one way, I can always read the press releases from that side to convince me to go the other way, so to speak.
I think the lack of honesty in both sides is appalling. I've done a fair bit of reading but surely most people can see through the rubbish.
The odd thing I've found is that whilst disliking Cameron intensely, I find myself drawn to him more than the two clowns leading the exit mob.
This is probably the most difficult political decision I've ever made and instead of being given evidence to help me come to an informed conclusion, I have to fight the response of opting for the side telling fewer lies.
When one side twists and distorts the latest from their opponents, I find it a struggle not to immediately believe the original release.
I've had a few discussions with my kids and they are in the same position. One feels the decision is important for his own personal situation and so will vote selfishly. No problem with that of course, but he admits to not knowing which is best for 'the country' nor his kids' future. My other lad wants to work in France for a period and reckons that if we leave it might make things difficult for him. He is on the cusp so reckons that he'll vote stay as there's no overwhelming reason not to.
My kids have given the matter thought, but they too have little concrete information to go by so will probably go for what suits them in the medium term. Yet both resent not being able to vote for a fundamental reason.
Dereck - this is why I am fundamentally opposed to the idea of the referendum. The public will never get full disclosure, which is why we don't have referenda on every politcial decision. My personal view is that decisions like this are the job of government and if enough people disagree with the government's policies they have the option to vote for different bunch.
TTwiggy said:
Dereck - this is why I am fundamentally opposed to the idea of the referendum. The public will never get full disclosure, which is why we don't have referenda on every politcial decision. My personal view is that decisions like this are the job of government and if enough people disagree with the government's policies they have the option to vote for different bunch.
the fundamental problem with this referendum as was the case with the Scottish referendum is the Out campaign has to lie to get to support, because the truth of the matter " if we win we are at the mercy of others in the settlement offered " is at best unpalatable In this campaign the continued lies about 350 million a week and the use of the the NHS logo by vote leave has compounded the dishonesty.
Edited by mph1977 on Tuesday 31st May 11:56
mph1977 said:
TTwiggy said:
Dereck - this is why I am fundamentally opposed to the idea of the referendum. The public will never get full disclosure, which is why we don't have referenda on every politcial decision. My personal view is that decisions like this are the job of government and if enough people disagree with the government's policies they have the option to vote for different bunch.
the fundamental problem with this referendum as was the case with the Scottish referendum is the Out campaign has to lie to get to support, because the truth of the matter " if we win we are at the mercy of others in the settlement offered " is at best unpalatable In this campaign the continued lies abourt 350 million a week andthe use of the the NHS logo by vote leave has compunded the dishonesty.
TTwiggy said:
mph1977 said:
TTwiggy said:
Dereck - this is why I am fundamentally opposed to the idea of the referendum. The public will never get full disclosure, which is why we don't have referenda on every politcial decision. My personal view is that decisions like this are the job of government and if enough people disagree with the government's policies they have the option to vote for different bunch.
the fundamental problem with this referendum as was the case with the Scottish referendum is the Out campaign has to lie to get to support, because the truth of the matter " if we win we are at the mercy of others in the settlement offered " is at best unpalatable In this campaign the continued lies abourt 350 million a week andthe use of the the NHS logo by vote leave has compunded the dishonesty.
The £350m per week bit only weakens the out's case, as did going on about WWIII after Cameron's comment.
On the other hand, if E17 pulled out of the exit campaign . . .
Tonberry said:
The poster suggests to me that the main focus of this referendum for your average Brit is immigration.
If you follow any of the social media groups concerned with Brexit you'll notice that the common theme is keep Britain British. If you probe a little further, you'll quickly find that in this context, British means white.
The demographic of most of these groups appears to be your average "working class" Brit.
Why don't Vote Leave try to convince people like me - 2nd generation immigrants who are well integrated into British society - that it is in our interests to leave Europe? If you follow any of the social media groups concerned with Brexit you'll notice that the common theme is keep Britain British. If you probe a little further, you'll quickly find that in this context, British means white.
The demographic of most of these groups appears to be your average "working class" Brit.
Jimboka said:
hairyben said:
The tactics of the pro eu campaign really disgust me.
The power of fear is the best tool of the lazy corrupt scourges that run us though.
I'm somewhat standing back as I don't think we'll leave the eu regardless of which way the vote goes, the only difference is that a remain vote will be used as justification to seal our inevitable place in the eurosuperstate with schengen/abolition of the £ probably before the next general election.
You actually believe that Schengen & the £ will be abolished by 2020?The power of fear is the best tool of the lazy corrupt scourges that run us though.
I'm somewhat standing back as I don't think we'll leave the eu regardless of which way the vote goes, the only difference is that a remain vote will be used as justification to seal our inevitable place in the eurosuperstate with schengen/abolition of the £ probably before the next general election.
The Brexit camp are getting pretty desperate if you ask me, they are the ones promoting fear and constantly peddling falsehoods in a last ditch effort to avoid humiliation..
An "in" vote will give them the validity to further and faster integrate us to visual points of no return to put to bed opposition to the idea by making it seem insurmountable/no longer practical
If I come across as fighting for the brexit side please think again I'm claiming no "side", the truth is I simply see this as already inevitable and unavoidable and way out of our hands to truely influence.
Halb said:
Is it a flame retardant flag?......with an emphasis on the retard bit.Derek Smith said:
The £350m per week bit only weakens the out's case, as did going on about WWIII after Cameron's comment.
As far as I'm concerned neither side has made a convincing economic case. On the one hand leaving will unquestionably damage parts of the city which will have to move to the EU, something like 20% will relocate according to some private research I've seen. On the other hand the EU will need a trade agreement with the UK just as much and as quickly as we will need one with them, secondly 'in' can't claim that exporters will be stopped in their tracks and at the same time say the currency will collapse; its palpable nonsense. GBP will fall far further than any WTO levy making our goods cheaper abroad. House prices will go down and mortgage rate will go up too huh? Really! We arn't in the ERM any more Chancellor! On the other side leave spinning gross EU payments is plain silly. I can see the UK being to Europe what Canada is to the US and I like that. I like it a lot more than being dragged along with a project with frankly absurd delusions of beaurocratic, unaccountable, socialist grandeur. We will never be at the grown up table in the EU, outside of the Euro. EU Army? EU expansion into the old USSR. EU taxation? EU Fiscal consolidation? Eurobonds? This train doesn't stop any time soon and I no longer want to be a part what is rapidly becoming a triumph of beaurocracy over democracy. A flag no one salutes, a commission no one knows and an anthem no one sings... Enough is enough.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff