'Lessons will be learnt'
Discussion
Stickyfinger said:
When working in the USA in a specialist unit, it took 5 people to control a 14 year old and still 3 had tooth marks and I was scratched to buggery on my hands/arm ....it took 1/2 hour ....not easy
5 is the minimum number for a full restraint and generally requires the use of mechanical restraint as well , vs 6 or 7 for a 'no devices' restraint ... Jasandjules said:
Baryonyx said:
What do you suggest? Slap her in the chops? Choke her a bit? No, I suspect you'll find the minimum amount of force necessary to restrain her will have been used.
Frankly, whilst I am not sure if it would be appropriate, I would suggest the police are trained in a couple of fairly reasonably simple to apply wrist locks. A Jitsu instructor ought to be employed.You would be surprised how hard it can be to do anything, let alone kick off, when you are awfully busy wondering just how your arm can possibly hurt that much if you move.......
mph1977 said:
Stickyfinger said:
When working in the USA in a specialist unit, it took 5 people to control a 14 year old and still 3 had tooth marks and I was scratched to buggery on my hands/arm ....it took 1/2 hour ....not easy
5 is the minimum number for a full restraint and generally requires the use of mechanical restraint as well , vs 6 or 7 for a 'no devices' restraint ... mph1977 said:
Bigends said:
She's ELEVEN years old - not some drunken yob - if two burly cops cant control her without hog tying her then theres something seriously wrong.
ever done a control and restraint course ?As far as I can tell, all that has happened is that the IPCC have said there are cases to answer, not that they have been found guilty of misconduct.
I think it is ridiculous for posters here to condemn the officers simply because the girl was 11. The police are not mental health workers and their duty is solely to protect themselves, the public and, in this case, Child H, from the injury.
My guess is Derek will be best placed to comment here, given it is his former force.
Bigends said:
mph1977 said:
Bigends said:
She's ELEVEN years old - not some drunken yob - if two burly cops cant control her without hog tying her then theres something seriously wrong.
ever done a control and restraint course ?
Bigends said:
mph1977 said:
Bigends said:
She's ELEVEN years old - not some drunken yob - if two burly cops cant control her without hog tying her then theres something seriously wrong.
ever done a control and restraint course ?Wife works in a primary school where the kids are all there mentally just a bit naughty.
Sometimes she comes with marks, scratches and bruises. Some children can easily take 5 members of staff to be restrained and thats without any extra mental issues that promote extreme violence.
Cannot see any possible reason why any of those officers need to be disciplined. If anything the mum and child need help from proper professionals and not the police.
Sometimes she comes with marks, scratches and bruises. Some children can easily take 5 members of staff to be restrained and thats without any extra mental issues that promote extreme violence.
Cannot see any possible reason why any of those officers need to be disciplined. If anything the mum and child need help from proper professionals and not the police.
ashleyman said:
Wife works in a primary school where the kids are all there mentally just a bit naughty.
Sometimes she comes with marks, scratches and bruises. Some children can easily take 5 members of staff to be restrained and thats without any extra mental issues that promote extreme violence.
Cannot see any possible reason why any of those officers need to be disciplined. If anything the mum and child need help from proper professionals and not the police.
i'm also suprised no one has said ' why wasn't she taken to A+E or a General hospital Children's ward ' ? - because contrary to the armchair experts they are even less suitable places of safety than a custody block . Sometimes she comes with marks, scratches and bruises. Some children can easily take 5 members of staff to be restrained and thats without any extra mental issues that promote extreme violence.
Cannot see any possible reason why any of those officers need to be disciplined. If anything the mum and child need help from proper professionals and not the police.
Bigends said:
Are you saying they have restrained her then left her alone in a cell? She's ELEVEN - if a couple cops arent capable of restraining a child of that age now then theres something horribly wrong. We were often called to a special care unit on my old area to assist with kids like this - wouldnt have dreamt of cuffing them. ,,or are kids more violent now than they were 'in my day'? Sussex Police have admitted it was wrong - stop defending them
Go and read the response from the fed mph1977 said:
i'm also suprised no one has said ' why wasn't she taken to A+E or a General hospital Children's ward ' ? - because contrary to the armchair experts they are even less suitable places of safety than a custody block .
Are you now getting cross about things people haven't said?!mph1977 said:
i'm also suprised no one has said ' why wasn't she taken to A+E or a General hospital Children's ward ' ? - because contrary to the armchair experts they are even less suitable places of safety than a custody block .
Wouldn't have gone to a hospital as then the hospital staff and other patients are at risk.I'm surprised this is even being talked about. Girl went a bit crazy and got violent, police reacted. Case closed.
Bigends said:
Are you saying they have restrained her then left her alone in a cell? She's ELEVEN - if a couple cops arent capable of restraining a child of that age now then theres something horribly wrong. We were often called to a special care unit on my old area to assist with kids like this - wouldnt have dreamt of cuffing them. ,,or are kids more violent now than they were 'in my day'? Sussex Police have admitted it was wrong - stop defending them
You are so utterly full of s
t and every post you make convinces me you're a Walt. IF you were in the know, you'd know of the utter failure if mental health units, custody procedures that have to be followed and why and when restraints are used. You don't. Are those officers supposed to 'restrain' her for 12-18-24 hours?
ashleyman said:
mph1977 said:
i'm also suprised no one has said ' why wasn't she taken to A+E or a General hospital Children's ward ' ? - because contrary to the armchair experts they are even less suitable places of safety than a custody block .
Wouldn't have gone to a hospital as then the hospital staff and other patients are at risk.I'm surprised this is even being talked about. Girl went a bit crazy and got violent, police reacted. Case closed.
Elroy Blue said:
Bigends said:
Are you saying they have restrained her then left her alone in a cell? She's ELEVEN - if a couple cops arent capable of restraining a child of that age now then theres something horribly wrong. We were often called to a special care unit on my old area to assist with kids like this - wouldnt have dreamt of cuffing them. ,,or are kids more violent now than they were 'in my day'? Sussex Police have admitted it was wrong - stop defending them
You are so utterly full of st and every post you make convinces me you're a Walt. IF you were in the know, you'd know of the utter failure if mental health units, custody procedures that have to be followed and why and when restraints are used. You don't. Are those officers supposed to 'restrain' her for 12-18-24 hours?
Jasandjules said:
Frankly, whilst I am not sure if it would be appropriate, I would suggest the police are trained in a couple of fairly reasonably simple to apply wrist locks. A Jitsu instructor ought to be employed.
You would be surprised how hard it can be to do anything, let alone kick off, when you are awfully busy wondering just how your arm can possibly hurt that much if you move.......
And how long will she be held in a wrist lock for? Handcuffs don't hurt, unlike a wrist lock, unless you fight against them. Are suggesting she should have been held in a restraint (formerly known as pain compliance) for 11 hours, or however long it takes to get her out of custody and into NHS care?You would be surprised how hard it can be to do anything, let alone kick off, when you are awfully busy wondering just how your arm can possibly hurt that much if you move.......
Handcuffing and limb restraints are less impactful and often more effective than hands on restraint.
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