'Lessons will be learnt'
Discussion
As always, lessons learnt etc.
article said:
Sussex police have been strongly criticised by the force watchdog after an 11-year-old disabled girl was hooded, handcuffed and detained in custody for a total of more than 60 hours.
The girl, known as Child H, suffers from a rare neurological disorder similar to autism that can cause sudden outbursts of anger.
She was placed in handcuffs, leg restraints and a spit hood after being detained on four separate occasions for minor offences between February and March 2012.
Eleven officers and one police staff member were found to have cases to answer for misconduct after an investigation by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).
....
Sussex police said it welcomed the IPCC investigation and had offered “management advice” to each of the criticised officers.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/08/ipcc-criticises-sussex-police-treatment-11-year-old-disabled-girlThe girl, known as Child H, suffers from a rare neurological disorder similar to autism that can cause sudden outbursts of anger.
She was placed in handcuffs, leg restraints and a spit hood after being detained on four separate occasions for minor offences between February and March 2012.
Eleven officers and one police staff member were found to have cases to answer for misconduct after an investigation by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).
....
Sussex police said it welcomed the IPCC investigation and had offered “management advice” to each of the criticised officers.
so how do you detain/prevent a violent 11 or 12 year old who wants to hit, scratch, bite and spit at police who are trying to prevent her from harming others and herself?
Appropriate person - mother not allowed in. Why? perhaps the police were concerned about the suitability of the Mother to be the appropriate person and her safety. Social services informed but not allowed in as too violent perhaps?
There is more to this and im sure that some alterations will be made and lessons learnt but I think the police will have acted as well as they can to help/protect this child.
Appropriate person - mother not allowed in. Why? perhaps the police were concerned about the suitability of the Mother to be the appropriate person and her safety. Social services informed but not allowed in as too violent perhaps?
There is more to this and im sure that some alterations will be made and lessons learnt but I think the police will have acted as well as they can to help/protect this child.
superlightr said:
so how do you detain/prevent a violent 11 or 12 year old who wants to hit, scratch, bite and spit at police who are trying to prevent her from harming others and herself?
Appropriate person - mother not allowed in. Why? perhaps the police were concerned about the suitability of the Mother to be the appropriate person and her safety. Social services informed but not allowed in as too violent perhaps?
There is more to this and im sure that some alterations will be made and lessons learnt but I think the police will have acted as well as they can to help/protect this child.
She's ELEVEN years old - not some drunken yob - if two burly cops cant control her without hog tying her then theres something seriously wrong.Appropriate person - mother not allowed in. Why? perhaps the police were concerned about the suitability of the Mother to be the appropriate person and her safety. Social services informed but not allowed in as too violent perhaps?
There is more to this and im sure that some alterations will be made and lessons learnt but I think the police will have acted as well as they can to help/protect this child.
Bigends said:
She's ELEVEN years old - not some drunken yob - if two burly cops cant control her without hog tying her then theres something seriously wrong.
How do you know the officers involved were burly? Do you know how violent some 11 year olds are? How would you have dealt with it?Bigends said:
She's ELEVEN years old - not some drunken yob - if two burly cops cant control her without hog tying her then theres something seriously wrong.
What do you suggest? Slap her in the chops? Choke her a bit? No, I suspect you'll find the minimum amount of force necessary to restrain her will have been used. Baryonyx said:
Bigends said:
She's ELEVEN years old - not some drunken yob - if two burly cops cant control her without hog tying her then theres something seriously wrong.
What do you suggest? Slap her in the chops? Choke her a bit? No, I suspect you'll find the minimum amount of force necessary to restrain her will have been used. Edited by Bigends on Wednesday 8th June 17:38
I'm surprised she was taken to the cells when sectioned under the mental health act. Usually social services and the NHS are falling over themselves to help with what is their area of business. Oh wait...
An 11 year old should rarely be taken to the police cells.
Restraints etc are used primarily to stop the detainee hurting themselves. It's better to restrain them than have them hit their head off the walls, bite their fingers off / make ligatures etc. It's also more controlled than having people use the force upon them and their position can be controlled to ensure they can breathe etc.
They shouldn't fall foul of the PACE stuff with the AA etc. That's sloppy, although 'management advice' can often merely be a reminder of what is being aimed for, rather than the practical realities.
An 11 year old should rarely be taken to the police cells.
Restraints etc are used primarily to stop the detainee hurting themselves. It's better to restrain them than have them hit their head off the walls, bite their fingers off / make ligatures etc. It's also more controlled than having people use the force upon them and their position can be controlled to ensure they can breathe etc.
They shouldn't fall foul of the PACE stuff with the AA etc. That's sloppy, although 'management advice' can often merely be a reminder of what is being aimed for, rather than the practical realities.
Bigends said:
Not according to Sussex Police who admit they got it wrong. It would have taken two to get the cuffs and leg restraints on (did plenty myself over the years) So two should have been able to restrain her safely - they do get trained you know- without resorting to cuffs and restraints.
What utter rubbish. Without being there you have no idea what she was like, I've had more than that restraining kids before, kids biting, kicking, scrarching and spitting. Bobbies arent there to be bitten or spat at. They cant leave her in a room to hurt herself either. I tell you what just send one in and knock her out, after all its only an eleven year old girl right?
If you were trained you'd know the more officers the safer it is.
Apparently the mother rang the police and is now denouncing them on local radio for their response. Don't know what she expected the police to do if the daughter was having a paddy, offer tea and cake?
llustrates the dangers of expecting the police to deal with mental health issues - and the shocking lack of mental health provision.
llustrates the dangers of expecting the police to deal with mental health issues - and the shocking lack of mental health provision.
Dogwatch said:
Apparently the mother rang the police and is now denouncing them on local radio for their response. Don't know what she expected the police to do if the daughter was having a paddy, offer tea and cake?
llustrates the dangers of expecting the police to deal with mental health issues - and the shocking lack of mental health provision.
Happens all of the time all over the country.llustrates the dangers of expecting the police to deal with mental health issues - and the shocking lack of mental health provision.
The police picking up other peoples s
t.Statement from Sussex Police Federation regarding the IPCC report into Sussex Police interaction with Child H
“We are disappointed with the way our officers are being portrayed regarding their dealings with this Child H. Although only 11, she displayed a high level of violence and her restraint was necessary to prevent her harming herself or others. When someone of any age or mental capacity displays violence towards themselves or others, it is not practical to carry out a health assessment there and then and they are restrained to prevent injury. Not to do so would be neglectful.
It is interesting to note that her mother is reported to have said “what she needed was patience, respect and the support of her mother”. It is therefore slightly ironic that it was her mother who felt the need to call the police on several occasions.
It is also sad to note that yet again the police service is the emergency service of last resort when there are other public bodies who could and should been dealing with Child H. The Police Federation has for the last few years been saying that police cells are not the place for people with mental health issues but in reality in a lot of cases, we remain the default position.
We are unable to comment further as the IPCC have chosen not to share their report with the officers concerned but it is also of interest to note that despite what is being reported, no officer was dealt with by way of formal misconduct procedures”.
“We are disappointed with the way our officers are being portrayed regarding their dealings with this Child H. Although only 11, she displayed a high level of violence and her restraint was necessary to prevent her harming herself or others. When someone of any age or mental capacity displays violence towards themselves or others, it is not practical to carry out a health assessment there and then and they are restrained to prevent injury. Not to do so would be neglectful.
It is interesting to note that her mother is reported to have said “what she needed was patience, respect and the support of her mother”. It is therefore slightly ironic that it was her mother who felt the need to call the police on several occasions.
It is also sad to note that yet again the police service is the emergency service of last resort when there are other public bodies who could and should been dealing with Child H. The Police Federation has for the last few years been saying that police cells are not the place for people with mental health issues but in reality in a lot of cases, we remain the default position.
We are unable to comment further as the IPCC have chosen not to share their report with the officers concerned but it is also of interest to note that despite what is being reported, no officer was dealt with by way of formal misconduct procedures”.
Greendubber said:
Bigends said:
Not according to Sussex Police who admit they got it wrong. It would have taken two to get the cuffs and leg restraints on (did plenty myself over the years) So two should have been able to restrain her safely - they do get trained you know- without resorting to cuffs and restraints.
What utter rubbish. Without being there you have no idea what she was like, I've had more than that restraining kids before, kids biting, kicking, scrarching and spitting. Bobbies arent there to be bitten or spat at. They cant leave her in a room to hurt herself either. I tell you what just send one in and knock her out, after all its only an eleven year old girl right?
If you were trained you'd know the more officers the safer it is.
Baryonyx said:
What do you suggest? Slap her in the chops? Choke her a bit? No, I suspect you'll find the minimum amount of force necessary to restrain her will have been used.
Frankly, whilst I am not sure if it would be appropriate, I would suggest the police are trained in a couple of fairly reasonably simple to apply wrist locks. A Jitsu instructor ought to be employed.You would be surprised how hard it can be to do anything, let alone kick off, when you are awfully busy wondering just how your arm can possibly hurt that much if you move.......
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