EU Referendum Poll - Final Call

[dirty boy]

AJL308 said:

Voted out, as I have done for all of them.

The decision gets easier and easier as only one thing is actually relevant: do I want our laws made in London or Brussels?

All of the waffle about economics, jobs, immigration, MP's being murdered, etc is just window dressing. The bottom line is governance and where its seat is. Nothing else is relevant. Nothing.

Anyone who votes "remain" should be able to honestly answer the question "do you want to be governed from Brussels" with a resounding and unequivocal "YES". If they can't then LEAVE is a dishonest choice for them.

Same idiots running our country as in Brussels, just with a different language, so it's a choice that's not as straight forward as you make it sound. We're not 'governed' by Brussels it's just a place where 27 countries come together and agree on stuff after a lot of twoing and froing to ensure all are happy.

[Beati Dogu]

dirty boy said:

Same idiots running our country as in Brussels, just with a different language, so it's a choice that's not as straight forward as you make it sound. We're not 'governed' by Brussels it's just a place where 27 countries come together and agree on stuff after a lot of twoing and froing to ensure all are happy.

People like you frighten me. The majority of our laws and regulation come direct from the EU. By any definition, we are government by the EU.

[p1esk]

I've been firmly in the 'Leave' camp for about 30 years, i.e. ever since it became clear that we hadn't simply joined a 'Common Market.'

However it came about, it looks to me as if we were seriously misled in the 1970s. We might now have a chance to put that right, and I hope we will.

[Digga]

Timmy40 said:

For me it didn't start out as immigration but has become so. The forecast of 6m new migrants from within the EU over the next 15-20 years if we reamin.

Those 6m people who because they are mobile and of working age ( generally those who migrate ) will compete directly with my children for jobs, houses, healthcare and other resources. And I'm sorry but we were here first.

Remainers will say that of course having control of our own borders and not being subject to automatic right to free movement of those 6m won't help us stop them coming. Frankly I don't believe that for a minute.

We need migration, but not the current uncontrolled migration that we have.

Interesting that people have to be so apologetic for thinking of British jobs and workers first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gHLfMXb0Yg

I personally agree (for once) with Lord Digby Jones who said that for the UK to remain globally competitive, the UK needs to be able to select the best immigrants, with the best skills, from wherever they are in the world.

[AJL308]

dirty boy said:

AJL308 said:

Voted out, as I have done for all of them.

The decision gets easier and easier as only one thing is actually relevant: do I want our laws made in London or Brussels?

All of the waffle about economics, jobs, immigration, MP's being murdered, etc is just window dressing. The bottom line is governance and where its seat is. Nothing else is relevant. Nothing.

Anyone who votes "remain" should be able to honestly answer the question "do you want to be governed from Brussels" with a resounding and unequivocal "YES". If they can't then LEAVE is a dishonest choice for them.

Same idiots running our country as in Brussels, just with a different language, so it's a choice that's not as straight forward as you make it sound. We're not 'governed' by Brussels it's just a place where 27 countries come together and agree on stuff after a lot of twoing and froing to ensure all are happy.

Even if that were true, which it isn't, they are British idiots who swear allegiance to Parliament rather than foreign idiots who have conflicting allegiances.

We are categorically governed by Brussels. EU law is superior to English/Scots law. That is indisputable legal fact with a wealth of case law to prove it.

Be in no doubt: if you vote to remain in the EU you are voting for governance from a foreign land. If you cannot say that that is what you want then you MUST vote leave.

[lostkiwi]

Beati Dogu said:

dirty boy said:

Same idiots running our country as in Brussels, just with a different language, so it's a choice that's not as straight forward as you make it sound. We're not 'governed' by Brussels it's just a place where 27 countries come together and agree on stuff after a lot of twoing and froing to ensure all are happy.

People like you frighten me. The majority of our laws and regulation come direct from the EU. By any definition, we are government by the EU.

Depends how you lok at it.
There are two main types of EU 'laws'.
Regulations which are where we are told how to do something
Directives which are guidance on what to do but have flexibilty as to how (i.e. we choose what law to pass and how to phrase it to accomplish something).

In terms of regulations 28% of our laws come from regulations.
Your statement 'most of' is only true if you include Directives (which we actually draft ourselves).

[Blue62]

Beati Dogu said:

People like you frighten me. The majority of our laws and regulation come direct from the EU. By any definition, we are government by the EU.

Do you know what percentage of our laws come from Brussels? When I last checked the EU was not a sovereign entity, let alone a state, sovereignty is retained at Westminster and the 'laws' we allow the EU to make are done with the agreement of our parliament. It is the price you pay for being in the EU, just as there are compromises for being in NATO or the UN. There are so many distortions and lies on both sides of this debate that it is unlikely anyone can make an informed decision, but the whole sovereignty argument is one big red herring. It is also a fact that we are at the top table, along with France and Germany, the three key powers who make most of the running in one of the globes most powerful institutions, not a bad position to be in.

There's much wrong with the EU but I think the campaigning on both sides has been highly misleading and damaging, the only certainty is that our economy will go backwards if we exit, for how long and how deep is impossible to know but even Nigel Mirage accepts we will recede.

[AJL308]

lostkiwi said:

Beati Dogu said:

dirty boy said:

Same idiots running our country as in Brussels, just with a different language, so it's a choice that's not as straight forward as you make it sound. We're not 'governed' by Brussels it's just a place where 27 countries come together and agree on stuff after a lot of twoing and froing to ensure all are happy.

People like you frighten me. The majority of our laws and regulation come direct from the EU. By any definition, we are government by the EU.

Depends how you lok at it.
There are two main types of EU 'laws'.
Regulations which are where we are told how to do something
Directives which are guidance on what to do but have flexibilty as to how (i.e. we choose what law to pass and how to phrase it to accomplish something).

In terms of regulations 28% of our laws come from regulations.
Your statement 'most of' is only true if you include Directives (which we actually draft ourselves).

The number of laws we curently have which originate from the EU is irrelevant.

EU law is supreme law of the EU. Fact.

I don't want that. I want laws made in Westminster to be the supreme law of the UK.

Anyone who cannot agree to the statement "I want the supreme law of the UK to be made in Brussels by people who are citizens of foreign nations" MUST vote leave.

[Blue62]

AJL308 said:

The number of laws we curently have which originate from the EU is irrelevant.

EU law is supreme law of the EU. Fact.

I don't want that. I want laws made in Westminster to be the supreme law of the UK.

Anyone who cannot agree to the statement "I want the supreme law of the UK to be made in Brussels by people who are citizens of foreign nations" MUST vote leave.

Of course any law drafted within the EU with the agreement of the council of ministers will be the supreme law of the EU, but that is not to say that we do not retain sovereignty, simply defer on certain points. It's no different with NATO or the UN. You my not like some of the laws and that's fine, but you need to understand that the laws are passed with the consent of parliament, fact I'm afraid.

[king arthur]

Telling people they MUST do something makes them far less likely to want to do it. That, however, is what the Remain establishment have failed to understand.

[dirty boy]

AJL308 said:

lostkiwi said:

Beati Dogu said:

dirty boy said:

Same idiots running our country as in Brussels, just with a different language, so it's a choice that's not as straight forward as you make it sound. We're not 'governed' by Brussels it's just a place where 27 countries come together and agree on stuff after a lot of twoing and froing to ensure all are happy.

People like you frighten me. The majority of our laws and regulation come direct from the EU. By any definition, we are government by the EU.

Depends how you lok at it.
There are two main types of EU 'laws'.
Regulations which are where we are told how to do something
Directives which are guidance on what to do but have flexibilty as to how (i.e. we choose what law to pass and how to phrase it to accomplish something).

In terms of regulations 28% of our laws come from regulations.
Your statement 'most of' is only true if you include Directives (which we actually draft ourselves).

The number of laws we curently have which originate from the EU is irrelevant.

EU law is supreme law of the EU. Fact.

I don't want that. I want laws made in Westminster to be the supreme law of the UK.

Anyone who cannot agree to the statement "I want the supreme law of the UK to be made in Brussels by people who are citizens of foreign nations" MUST vote leave.

Why 'must' they leave?

Playing devil's advocate here, but what makes the will of Westminster better than the will of combined nations? Surely the greater the demographic, by its very nature, the more democratic it is? One head is better than two etc?

I've always been told, "No matter how right you think you are, no matter how you can't possibly think you are wrong and someone else is, it doesn't mean you are right" and I always try to remember that.

PS Beati Dogu, I'm just an accountant with a wife and two children, please don't be frightened, I'm not exactly scary or a complete retard with no comprehension on these matters, merely offering a point of view (not even necessarily an opinion).

[king arthur]

dirty boy said:

Playing devil's advocate here, but what makes the will of Westminster better than the will of combined nations? Surely the greater the demographic, by its very nature, the more democratic it is? One head is better than two etc?

Well the way I see it, what's right for Greece, or what's right for Sweden, isn't necessarily right for us.

[John145]

dirty boy said:

Playing devil's advocate here, but what makes the will of Westminster better than the will of combined nations? Surely the greater the demographic, by its very nature, the more democratic it is? One head is better than two etc?

Who do you think has better democracy - Switzerland or the UK?

[lionelf]

Beati Dogu said:

dirty boy said:

Same idiots running our country as in Brussels, just with a different language, so it's a choice that's not as straight forward as you make it sound. We're not 'governed' by Brussels it's just a place where 27 countries come together and agree on stuff after a lot of twoing and froing to ensure all are happy.

People like you frighten me. The majority of our laws and regulation come direct from the EU. By any definition, we are government by the EU.

People like YOU frighten me as you can't possibly KNOW that as a fact and yet are stating it as such.

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what-proportion...

[oyster]

Beati Dogu said:

dirty boy said:

Same idiots running our country as in Brussels, just with a different language, so it's a choice that's not as straight forward as you make it sound. We're not 'governed' by Brussels it's just a place where 27 countries come together and agree on stuff after a lot of twoing and froing to ensure all are happy.

People like you frighten me. The majority of our laws and regulation come direct from the EU. By any definition, we are government by the EU.

Last time I checked, our laws and regulations are vastly different to those of many of our EU partners.

As this is a car site, can you really say that your day-to-day driving is governed more by Brussels than by London (or even your own local authorities).
Does Brussels govern;
fuel taxes?
VAT on new cars?
VED?
Speed limits?
Congestion zones?
Highway code?
IPT?
and so on and so on.
We even drive on a different side of the road.

Our tax laws are very different.
Our corporate laws are very different.

That's not to say that there are some EU rules which I don't like being enforced upon us. But to suggest Brussels makes anywhere near all our laws is simply a lie.

[oyster]

king arthur said:

dirty boy said:

Playing devil's advocate here, but what makes the will of Westminster better than the will of combined nations? Surely the greater the demographic, by its very nature, the more democratic it is? One head is better than two etc?

Well the way I see it, what's right for Greece, or what's right for Sweden, isn't necessarily right for us.

You could apply the same to all parts of the UK surely?
Or even to parts within a town.

Indeed what's right for my next door neighbour might be different to me on some issues - doesn't mean I need a different government and set of rules.

[John145]

oyster said:

king arthur said:

dirty boy said:

Playing devil's advocate here, but what makes the will of Westminster better than the will of combined nations? Surely the greater the demographic, by its very nature, the more democratic it is? One head is better than two etc?

Well the way I see it, what's right for Greece, or what's right for Sweden, isn't necessarily right for us.

You could apply the same to all parts of the UK surely?
Or even to parts within a town.

Indeed what's right for my next door neighbour might be different to me on some issues - doesn't mean I need a different government and set of rules.

This is why more power to more - not less - people is important and technology has never made this easier.

[gnc]

OUT !

[Blue62]

John145 said:

Who do you think has better democracy - Switzerland or the UK?

I honestly don't think there's an answer to that, even if you phrased it to read 'more democratic', there are simply too many variables, a bit like asking which is the more corrupt state, or which is the more secretive.

We voted to be in the Common Market, membership comes at a price, some of us think it is a price worth paying, some don't and it certainly is not perfect but does anyone seriously believe life on the other side will be perfect? The fact remains that our sovereignty is not at stake despite what the Leave campaign would have us believe and on the balance of expert opinion (academics, business leaders and military) our economy and security are better served by staying in.

[king arthur]

oyster said:

king arthur said:

dirty boy said:

Playing devil's advocate here, but what makes the will of Westminster better than the will of combined nations? Surely the greater the demographic, by its very nature, the more democratic it is? One head is better than two etc?

Well the way I see it, what's right for Greece, or what's right for Sweden, isn't necessarily right for us.

You could apply the same to all parts of the UK surely?
Or even to parts within a town.

Indeed what's right for my next door neighbour might be different to me on some issues - doesn't mean I need a different government and set of rules.

So you would presumably be against the idea of the Scottish Parliament or the Welsh or Northern Ireland assemblies?