EU Referendum Poll - Final Call
Poll: EU Referendum Poll - Final Call
Total Members Polled: 803
Discussion
zbc said:
eps said:
AJL308 said:
ITP said:
By the media I mean the TV, on now. Juncker has said, this afternoon, there will be 'no renegotiations' if we stay in. So no reform of the EU then. You will notice Cameron always says he wants to stay in a 'reformed' EU, that we can change its direction. This has now been laid bare as not possible, the EU will do what it wants. All BBC says is juncker says 'Out is out'. What BBC should be saying is juncker says 'there will be no renegotiation if we stay in'.
That's it then. Anyone voting Remain now must to realise that the EU in its current form is permanent. If that's what you want vote Remain. If you want to change the EU, even just a little bit, you can't. Vote Leave.
No renegotiations is our relationship with the EU.
No reform is separate it's the EUs actual content and format.
If over the next 10-20 years we all vote for left wing communists the UK will eventually turn to be a communist country. Meanwhile in the EU we could try and vote in people who are anti superstate but it won't steer the course of the EU. It's a wonderful place full of sensible smart laws as well as dumb ones and you can merrily influence some of them but you can not change it's core goal and values so if you don't agree with the end result of a superstate then you must must must vote out.
Lord Lawson put a great point forward last night that chimed with my thoughts about our guaranteed opt-out being worse, we'd be a 2nd tier colony orbiting a super state that would be the worst of all worlds.
Am I the only one seeing the irony? 
Voted. Nice sunny day and the people at the voting station were commenting on how good the turnout was so far. I can see advantages to both but in the end have backed Leave, as have most people I know. Be glad when it's over as well, I find it sad how mean spirited and personal the whole debate became, with both sides being equally culpable.
lostkiwi said:
MDMetal said:
... then you must must must vote out.
No one 'must' do anything. When we are told how we 'must' vote its no longer a democracy - its a dictatorship. I've genuinely heard people say the EU is good because it helped clean the beaches, that's great but it's not what the question is unless personally you view the cleanliness of beaches as the most important issue.
MDMetal said:
lostkiwi said:
MDMetal said:
... then you must must must vote out.
No one 'must' do anything. When we are told how we 'must' vote its no longer a democracy - its a dictatorship. I've genuinely heard people say the EU is good because it helped clean the beaches, that's great but it's not what the question is unless personally you view the cleanliness of beaches as the most important issue.
As for the way to vote for others? That's for them to decide.
Much will come down to how much they believe of what each side has said, how much they have researched themselves and how what they have found out will affect them.
There is no right answer. There is no wrong answer. We will never know if one option was better than the other.
People need to make up their own minds and not feel bullied into making a decision one way or the other.
lostkiwi said:
I have openly and frequently said I have no fear of a superstate.
As for the way to vote for others? That's for them to decide.
Much will come down to how much they believe of what each side has said, how much they have researched themselves and how what they have found out will affect them.
There is no right answer. There is no wrong answer. We will never know if one option was better than the other.
People need to make up their own minds and not feel bullied into making a decision one way or the other.
I agree with much of that but in my view the "right" answer is for individuals to vote for what they genuinely believe and not be swayed excessively by potential short-term considerations. In that context, IMO you should vote Remain if you believe in the European vision - which means greater federalism, integration and, yes, monetary union - and you should vote Leave if you don't. As I've said before, my guess is that most of the British electorate would actually vote Leave on that basis but equally I suspect a significant number will be swayed by concerns about the the short-term effect on the economy and will therefore vote to Remain. In many ways that's understandable but in my mind it's hardly a ringing endorsement of the EU.....As for the way to vote for others? That's for them to decide.
Much will come down to how much they believe of what each side has said, how much they have researched themselves and how what they have found out will affect them.
There is no right answer. There is no wrong answer. We will never know if one option was better than the other.
People need to make up their own minds and not feel bullied into making a decision one way or the other.
Shazbat said:
Car + forum people
Materialistic, right wing, left brain dominant, lacking in empathy, egocentric, over reliant on intellect and with a strong tendency to direct anger toward others.
.. says the man with 'Porsche 964 RS' and a Ferrari in his garage. (Left-wing, champagne socialist hypocrite?) Nice cars by the way! Materialistic, right wing, left brain dominant, lacking in empathy, egocentric, over reliant on intellect and with a strong tendency to direct anger toward others.
fido said:
Shazbat said:
Car + forum people
Materialistic, right wing, left brain dominant, lacking in empathy, egocentric, over reliant on intellect and with a strong tendency to direct anger toward others.
.. says the Materialistic, right wing, left brain dominant, lacking in empathy, egocentric, over reliant on intellect and with a strong tendency to direct anger toward others.
There's only one thing worse than an amateur psychologist...
And that's a real one....
fido said:
Shazbat said:
Car + forum people
Materialistic, right wing, left brain dominant, lacking in empathy, egocentric, over reliant on intellect and with a strong tendency to direct anger toward others.
.. says the man with 'Porsche 964 RS' and a Ferrari in his garage. (Left-wing, champagne socialist hypocrite?) Nice cars by the way! Materialistic, right wing, left brain dominant, lacking in empathy, egocentric, over reliant on intellect and with a strong tendency to direct anger toward others.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/06/10/friday-funn...
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