Discussion
plasticpig said:
AmitG said:
Maybe the government silence is because it's a weekend. But I suspect it's mainly because nobody wants to step forward, nobody is sure who is actually in charge now, and despite a Leave vote being a clear possibility for weeks, there isn't a plan.
I find this very scary - much more so than the actual result, which I am fine with.
Cameron made it very clear early on that there was to be no government plan for an exit. So I don't know why you find it surprising. It's the main reason I voted remain. If the government had published a plan I might well have voted leave. I find this very scary - much more so than the actual result, which I am fine with.
Cameron has disgraced the country, his party and himself.
Mario149 said:
Blue Oval84 said:
Just throwing this out there, a lot of people keep referring to the "will of the people" etc. but do we think that all 52% still think the same way today as they did on Thursday?
It seems to me, anecdotally, that there are quite a few of them who now think they were lied to "let's spend £350m on the NHS", "let's stop immigration" (it doesn't matter that it's not quite what was said, that was what they heard).
Now that they're waking up to some serious uncertainty, Downing St admitting it has no plan for this eventuality, Bo Jo himself looking like he didn't really want this outcome, admissions from Nigel Farrage that the NHS thing was "a mistake", and from Danial Hannan that they shouldn't expect us not to be accepting some free movement of people, do we honestly think all 52% are happy with the way they voted?
I think the government could quite easily get away with not implementing article 50 at this rate and, without having a sort of "are you sure you're sure?" referendum, it would be very hard to keep a straight face and say that all 52% are still in favour of leaving.
This^^. I know I'm biased as a Remainer, but I do genuinely think that in the last 48 hours or so when the ramifications of what has been voted for have started to become apparent, there are a statistically significant number of people who voted Leave who'd probably give a different Ref answer today than on Thursday as they were "soft" (i.e. it was a close run thing for them) Leavers. Conversely if you were a "soft" Remainer, I can't see anything that would push you the other way as I've seen literally no good short term news. And that doesn't even account for what I imagine would be a larger youth turnout and likely great Remain vote now that a great many of them would realise they can't be lazy and expect everything to be fine.It seems to me, anecdotally, that there are quite a few of them who now think they were lied to "let's spend £350m on the NHS", "let's stop immigration" (it doesn't matter that it's not quite what was said, that was what they heard).
Now that they're waking up to some serious uncertainty, Downing St admitting it has no plan for this eventuality, Bo Jo himself looking like he didn't really want this outcome, admissions from Nigel Farrage that the NHS thing was "a mistake", and from Danial Hannan that they shouldn't expect us not to be accepting some free movement of people, do we honestly think all 52% are happy with the way they voted?
I think the government could quite easily get away with not implementing article 50 at this rate and, without having a sort of "are you sure you're sure?" referendum, it would be very hard to keep a straight face and say that all 52% are still in favour of leaving.
A lot of people seem to have quickly forgotten a lot and seem scared to embrace change, be brave and get on with it.
We will be fine. Just fine.
Jockman said:
As the official Govt position was to Remain how could it possibly publish a plan that would add credence to the 'other side'?
Cameron has disgraced the country, his party and himself.
Cameron has disgraced the country, his party and himself.
The government called the referendum. Its the government's job to give me and everyone else the information to make an informed decision. They failed to do that.
plasticpig said:
Jockman said:
As the official Govt position was to Remain how could it possibly publish a plan that would add credence to the 'other side'?
Cameron has disgraced the country, his party and himself.
Cameron has disgraced the country, his party and himself.
The government called the referendum. Its the government's job to give me and everyone else the information to make an informed decision. They failed to do that.
How can anyone make a decision when no one knows the consequences?
Madness
plasticpig said:
Jockman said:
As the official Govt position was to Remain how could it possibly publish a plan that would add credence to the 'other side'?
Cameron has disgraced the country, his party and himself.
Cameron has disgraced the country, his party and himself.
The government called the referendum. Its the government's job to give me and everyone else the information to make an informed decision. They failed to do that.
Which bits do you feel uninformed about? I don't see anything new or unforeseen post vote, all of it was debated, though brexit side did make some promises they can't keep. Not sure the govt side did though - have you an example?
andy_s said:
Blimey. Boris in coherent and logical shocker. He might yet pull this off.schmalex said:
Oh. And don't forget no more little brown people, talking funny languages...
FFS. We've voted ourselves back to the dark ages by, seemingly, a heady mixture of ignorance, profound mid-selling and blind optimism.
Can you, you ignorant little cretin, please explain what is so 'dark ages' about leaving a corrupt, bloated and unnecessary political organisation? FFS. We've voted ourselves back to the dark ages by, seemingly, a heady mixture of ignorance, profound mid-selling and blind optimism.
Edited by schmalex on Sunday 26th June 19:46
Grow the f
k up.
London424 said:
It seems very Norway like. It is good that he seems to want to be wedded to the single market, though whether this is tariff free is left unsaid.
Hopefully these maybe warm enough words to stem the job drain - for now.
PS the pound seems to have restarted its slide most of the recovery during the day on Friday. Now at 1.21/€.
///ajd said:
London424 said:
It seems very Norway like. It is good that he seems to want to be wedded to the single market, though whether this is tariff free is left unsaid.
Hopefully these maybe warm enough words to stem the job drain - for now.
PS the pound seems to have restarted its slide most of the recovery during the day on Friday. Now at 1.21/€.
Just accept it. YOU LOST!
Re the Euro (remember the bulls
t 10 years ago saying the Euro could overtake the dollar as the leading currency?)Ha f
king ha ha.Saturday £ was 1.20/€.
Societe Generale predicted 1.15/1.1337 - not happening if it's now 1.2165/€.
Pound/Dollar
Currently 1.00/1.34226
Considering the upheaval, it's inevitable that the uncertainty will cause some chaos, but it's not falling as fast as doomsayers like you are predicting, eh?
Give it some time. Weeks months or longer.
Just a thought...
Boris's column implies that EU free-movement will continue - he claims he does not believe a great many people were influenced by 'immigration' and talks of 'control' but I'm 99% certain he won't get any free-movement-only-for-who-we-choose deal so he isn't going to have much of either of those!?
I dare him to goto any of the 65%+ Leave voting areas, gather Leave voters together and explain that immigration will continue as before
I think he'll be lynched but he thinks not so - when does that happen, will be GREAT TV
Boris's column implies that EU free-movement will continue - he claims he does not believe a great many people were influenced by 'immigration' and talks of 'control' but I'm 99% certain he won't get any free-movement-only-for-who-we-choose deal so he isn't going to have much of either of those!?
I dare him to goto any of the 65%+ Leave voting areas, gather Leave voters together and explain that immigration will continue as before
I think he'll be lynched but he thinks not so - when does that happen, will be GREAT TV
dandarez said:
Doomsayer! Why don't you hibernate early?
Just accept it. YOU LOST!
Re the Euro (remember the bullst 10 years ago saying the Euro could overtake the dollar as the leading currency?)
Ha fking ha ha.
Saturday £ was 1.20/€.
Societe Generale predicted 1.15/1.1337 - not happening if it's now 1.2165/€.
Pound/Dollar
Currently 1.00/1.34226
Considering the upheaval, it's inevitable that the uncertainty will cause some chaos, but it's not falling as fast as doomsayers like you are predicting, eh?
Give it some time. Weeks months or longer.
Keep your knickers on.Just accept it. YOU LOST!
Re the Euro (remember the bulls
t 10 years ago saying the Euro could overtake the dollar as the leading currency?)Ha f
king ha ha.Saturday £ was 1.20/€.
Societe Generale predicted 1.15/1.1337 - not happening if it's now 1.2165/€.
Pound/Dollar
Currently 1.00/1.34226
Considering the upheaval, it's inevitable that the uncertainty will cause some chaos, but it's not falling as fast as doomsayers like you are predicting, eh?
Give it some time. Weeks months or longer.
The rate was 1.20 on early friday morning, but recovered to around 1.23 later and remained there all weekend.
It is sliding again.
That's all, just an observation.
Stop trying to pretend it doesn't matter at all. It does matter and is worthy of comment whether you like it or not.
405dogvan said:
Just a thought...
Boris's column implies that EU free-movement will continue - he claims he does not believe a great many people were influenced by 'immigration' and talks of 'control' but I'm 99% certain he won't get any free-movement-only-for-who-we-choose deal so he isn't going to have much of either of those!?
I dare him to goto any of the 65%+ Leave voting areas, gather Leave voters together and explain that immigration will continue as before
I think he'll be lynched but he thinks not so - when does that happen, will be GREAT TV
Boris's column implies that EU free-movement will continue - he claims he does not believe a great many people were influenced by 'immigration' and talks of 'control' but I'm 99% certain he won't get any free-movement-only-for-who-we-choose deal so he isn't going to have much of either of those!?
I dare him to goto any of the 65%+ Leave voting areas, gather Leave voters together and explain that immigration will continue as before
I think he'll be lynched but he thinks not so - when does that happen, will be GREAT TV
BoJo said:
Yes, the Government will be able to take back democratic control of immigration policy, with a balanced and humane points-based system to suit the needs of business and industry.
Not quite sure where you got freedom of movement from. My guess is that he's thinking about asking for a situation where we do get control but British people are still allowed to move. A big ask but it remains to be seen how desperate Brussels will be by the time someone from London turns up with a shopping list. davepoth said:
Not quite sure where you got freedom of movement from. My guess is that he's thinking about asking for a situation where we do get control but British people are still allowed to move. A big ask but it remains to be seen how desperate Brussels will be by the time someone from London turns up with a shopping list.
He talked about how people from the UK would be able to continue to live and work and travel in the EU - any EEA-style deal would likely require that to work both ways?He then talks about points systems - something I'm pretty sure the EU have absolutely ruled-out in the past and aren't likely to entertain now? I'm sure we've already asked for this and been slapped down??
Seems to me he's promising more than Cameron did (level of immigration control) and Cameron failed to deliver that (and was told it was impossible) - not sure exactly what the plan is here as nothing has changed in that respect (just because we want it more doesn't make it more likely to happen?)
That column is clearly an attempt at calming the waters, sounding more 'leadership material' and ensuring the world doesn't tear-up Sterling/Share values until he gets his hands on power??
I do think it also suggests he has no idea what he's let out of the bottle with his campaign and how he's already not really addressing what they voted for.
This is Britain, there won't be a riot (selfish greedy people never protest anyway - but Stop the War managed nothing so I fail to see what a few angry Leavers could do?) but all this talk of 'landmark moments in politics' may be moot if he just whitewashes over the cracks and says "done"
Edited by 405dogvan on Monday 27th June 02:32
405dogvan said:
I do think it also suggests he has no idea what he's let out of the bottle with his campaign and how he's already not really addressing what they voted for.
As a leaver this us exactly the kind of result I am hoping for. Continued trade with the EU and scientific research etc; migration for those who will contribute, rid of bloated EU laws, the ability to quickly adapt to world conditions and trade with emerging nations (and thus more global inclusion rather than just eu inclusion, the return of full democract in the UK and hopefully the reform of the EU to return democracy to those nations to end the current destruction of Greece, Portugal, Ireland etc., and the right to decide our taxes and tariffs. I'll be very happy if that happens. schmalex said:
Oh. And don't forget no more little brown people, talking funny languages...
FFS. We've voted ourselves back to the dark ages by, seemingly, a heady mixture of ignorance, profound mid-selling and blind optimism.
Wait, what? Where can I get the magic crystal ball from which you prophesy? FFS. We've voted ourselves back to the dark ages by, seemingly, a heady mixture of ignorance, profound mid-selling and blind optimism.
Edited by schmalex on Sunday 26th June 19:46
Mr. White said:
As a leaver this us exactly the kind of result I am hoping for. Continued trade with the EU and scientific research etc; migration for those who will contribute, rid of bloated EU laws, the ability to quickly adapt to world conditions and trade with emerging nations (and thus more global inclusion rather than just eu inclusion, the return of full democract in the UK and hopefully the reform of the EU to return democracy to those nations to end the current destruction of Greece, Portugal, Ireland etc., and the right to decide our taxes and tariffs. I'll be very happy if that happens.
No idea how he'd go about it, but yes, I'd be happy with that.Blue Oval84 said:
Einion Yrth said:
Referenda are expensive, we just held one. The majority chose to leave the EU.
If the result had been the other way I'd have just got on with my life, might I suggest you do the same.
I voted leave.If the result had been the other way I'd have just got on with my life, might I suggest you do the same.
If however we end up in a position where the government realises that an EFTA deal can't be negotiated, I don't want them to say "f
k it, let's crash the country because we were told to".EEA is a little different, that's the EU's 'associate club', designed as a stepping stone to full membership, except now most are sitting pretty there away from EZ contagion and the worst of the petty legislation.
On a different note, there's two things apparent to me that perhaps aren't to others:
Plenty of remainders kicking off now that it's obvious that members of the Leave campaign hold different ideals on the future view of the UK outside the EU. They're stating this is a cause for civil unrest and mass dissatisfaction.
Were all Remain campaigners and voters voting for the same thing? Or was the same scenario guaranteed here to - from the 'reform from within crowd' getting ignored, to the 'status quo' lot getting upset when the next Treaty comes along, through to the 'open borders' crowd being pissed off that the vast majority don't share their vision for a USE utopia...
Then we have Cameron. Someone who now claims the Civil Service is starting from scratch to devise the exit strategy. The f
ker should be locked up if that's true - you simple don't call a referendum and block the CS from planning for either result. That's what they're there for... Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff