Discussion
Norfolkit said:
55palfers said:
Did I hear on the news at lunchtime that some Frog has said "we must begin to reform the EU?"
Why not "reform" it before Cameron came home.
Because they didn't believe we'd vote non.Why not "reform" it before Cameron came home.
Now they face an avoidable existential crisis that dwarfs the challenges faced by the UK.
SpeckledJim said:
I think that's correct. When they sent Dave home with nothing they thought they had called our bluff.
Now they face an avoidable existential crisis that dwarfs the challenges faced by the UK.
I think that's certainly one of the possibilities (existential crisis), if there's a mass break-out shall we join together to make a EUII...? Now they face an avoidable existential crisis that dwarfs the challenges faced by the UK.
andy_s said:
confused_buyer said:
Juncker really is a tit though. He was a known idiot when picked and only settled on as a compromise no one liked. I think anyone else would have done s sensible deal with Cameron and the UK would have voted Remain.
There is a certain parallel between Junckers and Sepp Blatter insofar as arrogance and head-in-sand sticking is concerned.He has a big mouth and little bite. But that mouth causes problems.
At the end of the day, the Council has the power.
danllama said:
Has anyone else just been very, very happy for the last two days? 
Definitely feeling a bit lighter on my feet.
Very much so, did you notice the Sun came out too Definitely feeling a bit lighter on my feet.
I have European friends and love France but I did not like a unelected EU telling us what we could and could not do.
sunbeam alpine said:
This is true. My understanding of Article 50, however, is that once it is invoked, the clock starts ticking, and we then have 2 years to get everything agreed, after which we are out, trade agreements or not, and 2 years in Europe is not long - glaciers move faster.
That's my understanding too. Until we trigger it we are full members and have much more power. In theory we could just veto everything we can for 3 years until they offer us a good deal.If the EU want us gone asap the way to do it is offer us a deal we couldn't possibly refuse.
Technically I don't think Article 50 even has to be used - it hasn't existed very long anyway. In theory, if we were offered a deal we liked, the Acts could be repealed, Treaties nullified and we could be out of their hair in a few months.
Edited by confused_buyer on Saturday 25th June 14:43
Norfolkit said:
55palfers said:
Did I hear on the news at lunchtime that some Frog has said "we must begin to reform the EU?"
Why not "reform" it before Cameron came home.
Because they didn't believe we'd vote non.Why not "reform" it before Cameron came home.
Sort of sums up the arrogance of some of these people I think.
chrispmartha said:
Eh? Im not sure how people voices ng an opinion on line will make the economy suffer
You must remember the run on certain banks...? And the run on Euro banks in Greece etc when they had their refereundum on Bailout 2? People just need to chill out a bit, it goes lots more smoothly then!
fatboy18 said:
Very much so, did you notice the Sun came out too
I have European friends and love France but I did not like a unelected EU telling us what we could and could not do.
Yep, that's what it boils down to. Very glad the majority agreed with us, regardless of what happens next. I have European friends and love France but I did not like a unelected EU telling us what we could and could not do.
TheSleepingCat said:
Maybe one day, but now? The EU heads want the UK out as quick and as painfully as possible, they want us to suffer as a warning to anyone else who thinks about leaving. They are already trying to enforce acts through vague wording and will seek to push the UK out of any beneficial trade arrangement and pull every financial power out of London and into Frankfurt with immediate effect.
Europe is going to do everything it can to make the UK bleed over this and now we are are on the outside our only counter argument is 'please don't, if you leave us with enough money we can still buy some BMWs'.
You are falling for the bluster and rhetoric which was entirely predictable when the whole thing started. Europe is going to do everything it can to make the UK bleed over this and now we are are on the outside our only counter argument is 'please don't, if you leave us with enough money we can still buy some BMWs'.
The referendum is not legally binding. The one thing the EU has lots of time for is the legal side of things. They cannot "throw us out". We have to now ask to leave and negotiate that departure with them.
Still buy "some BMWs"...we buy 1 in every 5 CARS, (not just BMWs) that Germany produces. 1 in 5, or about 850,000 a year. Do you really think the Turks will absorb the shortfall if they start playing tarrif war with us?
We are the World's 5th largest economy, we are EUs 2nd largest....and our trading with the EU's largest economy (GermanY) is massive, and very "one way". If Germany lost its trade selling to UK, it would not be the worlds 4th largest economy!
The best thing the UK Govt can do now is pretty much nothing....just keep quiet for a month as they get their political house in order. Let the Belgian unelected strawmen froth at the mouth at the prospect of losing the state that have been bailing out them and many other states for 40 years, (and not for the first time if you know your 20th Century history), then let everyone calm down and do what is needed for the good of all.
Let them rant and rave, and let their own people see what they are like when it comes to matters EU, let the German Workers rights parties think about the effect on 20% of it's car market, and let Merkel and co be reminded of where power ultimately lies.....with the people they represent.
If the EU has any collective sense, it will take the message sent by the UK people and realise that some other states may have similar opinions. And start to reform so as not to be so autocratic. If they do, maybe the EU will thrive in the future, at which point they may thank us for opening their eyes.
Being a fly on the wall at the next EU Budget meeting would be interesting. Some one is either going to have to pay more or some accept a lot less money.
In all seriousness reaching a deal with the EU will not be easy but they do not hold all the cards.
The EU is at it's weakest politically and economically it has ever been - they simply can't afford a recession in the EU as a whole or in their own countries politically. We should not underestimate that they need a deal as much as we do.
In all seriousness reaching a deal with the EU will not be easy but they do not hold all the cards.
The EU is at it's weakest politically and economically it has ever been - they simply can't afford a recession in the EU as a whole or in their own countries politically. We should not underestimate that they need a deal as much as we do.
alfie2244 said:
I saw Junker stated "this won't be an amicable divorce"...why not? Is it not better to say sad, shame etc, not what we wanted but respect your wishes and do pop round for a cuppa if you are in the area any time? (ring 1st obviously)
Regarding Juncker: I think the guy is a jerk as much as the next self-obsessed Eurocrat. It's amazing how out of touch they have become with the electorate in their less than democratic and very comfortable bubble. But the cold hard truth is that the UK is about to become a competitor to the EU. The divorce will likely be as amicable as the balance of economic power is at the time of negotiations.We want you to keep buying BMWs and spending money on holidays. But we don't want your financial services industry. We also don't want another tax-haven competing for businesses. If your economy stays strong and you keep buying things, then the bargaining position is stronger. If the UK economy tanks then it is not. If the EU zone gets into big trouble post-Brexit then then your position is stronger...
Nobody really knows what is about to happen and that's not ideal. Hence I think it is in the best interest of the UK (and the EU) to hurry up and reassure investors.
It will take a couple of years to sort out and during that time the only group profiting (economically) is going to be the lawyers. Dynasties will be founded on the paperwork that needs to be created now. Bit of a mess and Í really wish the exit scenario would have been thought through and prepared (in co-operation with the EU) *before* the referendum. It would have made more clear what people are voting for. And the negative impact to both economies could have been minimized.
Pretty surprised also that in the UK nobody seems to have an action plan. You ask the citizens a binary question. There's only two outcomes. Would have been clever to be ready for both, no?
Kolbenkopp said:
Pretty surprised also that in the UK nobody seems to have an action plan. You ask the citizens a binary question. There's only two outcomes. Would have been clever to be ready for both, no?
Definitely but we only have CMD's word that there's no plan and that may have been spin to strengthen a self-fulfilling prophecy that fell on its ass shortly before CMD fell on his.The BoE Governor said they had a plan if I heard correctly when his speech was covered in the media.
The mandarins may well have been busy on Option B with CMD nonchalantly pretending there was only Option A. If he really did prevent any work on planning for Brexit then he was a fool and we're even more well rid of him.
turbobloke said:
Kolbenkopp said:
Pretty surprised also that in the UK nobody seems to have an action plan. You ask the citizens a binary question. There's only two outcomes. Would have been clever to be ready for both, no?
Definitely but we only have CMD's word that there's no plan and that may have been spin to strengthen a self-fulfilling prophecy that fell on its ass shortly before CMD fell on his.The BoE Governor said they had a plan if I heard correctly when his speech was covered in the media.
The mandarins may well have been busy on Option B with CMD nonchalantly pretending there was only Option A. If he really did prevent any work on planning for Brexit then he was a fool and we're even more well rid of him.
though it will not be aided by junker acting quite so childishly currently!
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