Discussion
Halb said:
handpaper said:
Here's a result I wasn't expecting - I agree with Owen Jones :
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun...
He's not saying anything much, but that in itself is a surprise!
Not going to read all that waffle, so I read the last paragraph.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun...
He's not saying anything much, but that in itself is a surprise!
"If the left has a future in Britain, it must confront its own cultural and political disconnect with the lives and communities of working-class people. It must prepare for how it responds to a renewed offensive by an ascendant Tory right. On the continent, movements championing a more democratic and just Europe are more important than ever. None of this is easy – but it is necessary. Grieve now if you must, but prepare for the great challenges ahead."
Yeah, I guess so.
king idiot. I'm sure he thinks the working classes all go off to the steel mill or the pit every morning with bread and dripping butties. The left see themselves stood on top of the pit hoist telling the workers the left is working hard to make their lives better, like some sort of latter-day Arthur Scargill.I have no idea who Labour actually represent anymore.
turbobloke said:
el stovey said:
There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
That's a shock, what with the media being unbiased.Anyway, not so - look beyond the BBC and lefty rags and try a few righty rags
though an article in a lefty rag reckons that we now have a fantastic opportunity to bring back control to a more localised level and assert more democratic control of our economy...the rest is crap though.Other good news being reported fairly widely include the prospect of a Nexit, a Denexit and a Frexit.
Apparently British people agree with you and think the media is biased, but towards the right wing. Which UK rightwing media do you think is generally positive towards brexit?
dfen5 said:
telling the workers the left is working hard to make their lives better, like some sort of latter-day Arthur Scargill.
Come to Yorkshire and talk to people about Arthur Scargill; it took them a while but, fool me once...dfen5 said:
I have no idea who Labour actually represent anymore.
The labour party?The Own Jones article is interesting because it does seem kind of spot on and there's a certain irony in that Guardian is guilty of what he complains about which is claiming to represent the values working class and the poor whilst ignoring the opinion of the real working class and poor.
Not often I agree with him but it's a good piece.
Not often I agree with him but it's a good piece.
dfen5 said:
Owen Jones and his ilk are reason the Labour Party are where they are now. Referring to the left and their disconnect with the working-class. What a fking idiot. I'm sure he thinks the working classes all go off to the steel mill or the pit every morning with bread and dripping butties. The left see themselves stood on top of the pit hoist telling the workers the left is working hard to make their lives better, like some sort of latter-day Arthur Scargill.
I have no idea who Labour actually represent anymore.
There's a disconnect somewhere isn't there? There is one 'twixt Corbyn and most of his MPs, and with them and most of the party?king idiot. I'm sure he thinks the working classes all go off to the steel mill or the pit every morning with bread and dripping butties. The left see themselves stood on top of the pit hoist telling the workers the left is working hard to make their lives better, like some sort of latter-day Arthur Scargill.I have no idea who Labour actually represent anymore.
el stovey said:
He seemed to be saying working class people are fed up with a range of issues like immigration, being marginalised and ignored and a widening wealth gap. They feel Labour no longer represents them. They are fed up with the status quo and this referendum was finally a chance to say "up yours" to the ruling elite. They voted to leave the EU despite every bit of evidence from anyone connected to business or the economy saying it was a bad idea. They don't care about the economy because they're not that well off anyway.
Experts in the USA have been warning about the widening wealth gap for years. The (poorer) people eventually having enough and coming with their pitchforks. They're not going to have a french revolution but they're going to vote in Trump because they, like working class voters in the UK are sick of traditional party politics and politicians who longer represent them.
It has been claimed that the wealth gap is the highest since Edwardian times. The so called "left wing" parties are quite happy with the trends producing this as long as they have open borders.Experts in the USA have been warning about the widening wealth gap for years. The (poorer) people eventually having enough and coming with their pitchforks. They're not going to have a french revolution but they're going to vote in Trump because they, like working class voters in the UK are sick of traditional party politics and politicians who longer represent them.
el stovey said:
They voted to leave the EU despite every bit of evidence from anyone connected to business or the economy saying it was a bad idea. They don't care about the economy because they're not that well off anyway.
So they wanted to be even less well off? Does not compute.Apart from that, it wasn't evidence from businesses and economists it was opinion, and it wasn't "anyone" it was those willing to be put forward by the likes of the BBC so the samples involved were hardly random or representative.
Finally the opinion mostly focused on the short-term when this isn't a short-term matter.
Where it was longer-term the computer model at HMT was programmed with pessimistic assumptions to give the right result for Dave & George, who are now stuffed to one degree or another worse degree.
Halb said:
dfen5 said:
Owen Jones and his ilk are reason the Labour Party are where they are now. Referring to the left and their disconnect with the working-class. What a fking idiot. I'm sure he thinks the working classes all go off to the steel mill or the pit every morning with bread and dripping butties. The left see themselves stood on top of the pit hoist telling the workers the left is working hard to make their lives better, like some sort of latter-day Arthur Scargill.
I have no idea who Labour actually represent anymore.
There's a disconnect somewhere isn't there? There is one 'twixt Corbyn and most of his MPs, and with them and most of the party?king idiot. I'm sure he thinks the working classes all go off to the steel mill or the pit every morning with bread and dripping butties. The left see themselves stood on top of the pit hoist telling the workers the left is working hard to make their lives better, like some sort of latter-day Arthur Scargill.I have no idea who Labour actually represent anymore.
el stovey said:
Right but the other slightly smaller number of the voters think it's a bad idea, as do our own government, the opposition, all the economists, business leaders, financial experts, leaders of other countries etc etc.
It appears to only be Donald Trump who thought it was good and he said "They've taken their country back" to Scottish people, who wanted to remain.
Are you reading much positivity towards brexit anywhere? You'd think there would be celebrations going on everywhere if the majority had voted for something so monumental in our countries history. There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
IndeedIt appears to only be Donald Trump who thought it was good and he said "They've taken their country back" to Scottish people, who wanted to remain.
Are you reading much positivity towards brexit anywhere? You'd think there would be celebrations going on everywhere if the majority had voted for something so monumental in our countries history. There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
Have their been any brexit parties recorded?
It all feels a bit sordid, a bit unglorious.
What does the queen reckon?
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: The Own Jones article is interesting because it does seem kind of spot on and there's a certain irony in that Guardian is guilty of what he complains about which is claiming to represent the values working class and the poor whilst ignoring the opinion of the real working class and poor.
Not often I agree with him but it's a good piece.
I think the penny might have dropped for him. Not often I agree with him but it's a good piece.
PositronicRay said:
schmalex said:
The stark reality is that no-one will want to negotiate terms for an exit, as they're damned if the do and damned if they don't. No politician wants to be the man or woman who presses the button to take the UK out of Europe. It's not only career suicide, but will also create a lasting legacy that no-one will want.
I voted Remain. However, I do believe that, in the fullness of time, the UK could be much better off outside of what the EU is becoming.
My utopia would be to stay in the EU but have a fundamental renegotiation of our terms of membership. My gut feel is that this is what we'll be offered by Brussels and after some posturing will, most probably, accept.
My £50 goes on a quick Conservative leadership challenge, a snap election in the Autumn while Labour are in complete disarray, a further 5 year Tory mandate and a gentle climb down from Brexit.
I have much the same feeling, we'll end up pretty much where we were but with a bloody financial nose. I voted Remain. However, I do believe that, in the fullness of time, the UK could be much better off outside of what the EU is becoming.
My utopia would be to stay in the EU but have a fundamental renegotiation of our terms of membership. My gut feel is that this is what we'll be offered by Brussels and after some posturing will, most probably, accept.
My £50 goes on a quick Conservative leadership challenge, a snap election in the Autumn while Labour are in complete disarray, a further 5 year Tory mandate and a gentle climb down from Brexit.
///ajd said:
el stovey said:
Right but the other slightly smaller number of the voters think it's a bad idea, as do our own government, the opposition, all the economists, business leaders, financial experts, leaders of other countries etc etc.
It appears to only be Donald Trump who thought it was good and he said "They've taken their country back" to Scottish people, who wanted to remain.
Are you reading much positivity towards brexit anywhere? You'd think there would be celebrations going on everywhere if the majority had voted for something so monumental in our countries history. There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
IndeedIt appears to only be Donald Trump who thought it was good and he said "They've taken their country back" to Scottish people, who wanted to remain.
Are you reading much positivity towards brexit anywhere? You'd think there would be celebrations going on everywhere if the majority had voted for something so monumental in our countries history. There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
Have their been any brexit parties recorded?
It all feels a bit sordid, a bit unglorious.
What does the queen reckon?
turbobloke said:
///ajd said:
el stovey said:
Right but the other slightly smaller number of the voters think it's a bad idea, as do our own government, the opposition, all the economists, business leaders, financial experts, leaders of other countries etc etc.
It appears to only be Donald Trump who thought it was good and he said "They've taken their country back" to Scottish people, who wanted to remain.
Are you reading much positivity towards brexit anywhere? You'd think there would be celebrations going on everywhere if the majority had voted for something so monumental in our countries history. There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
IndeedIt appears to only be Donald Trump who thought it was good and he said "They've taken their country back" to Scottish people, who wanted to remain.
Are you reading much positivity towards brexit anywhere? You'd think there would be celebrations going on everywhere if the majority had voted for something so monumental in our countries history. There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
Have their been any brexit parties recorded?
It all feels a bit sordid, a bit unglorious.
What does the queen reckon?
kING UP THE FUTUREIn five years I want an apology when the liberal left finally twig that those that voted leave have probably saved it for the younger generation.
BlueHave said:
turbobloke said:
///ajd said:
el stovey said:
Right but the other slightly smaller number of the voters think it's a bad idea, as do our own government, the opposition, all the economists, business leaders, financial experts, leaders of other countries etc etc.
It appears to only be Donald Trump who thought it was good and he said "They've taken their country back" to Scottish people, who wanted to remain.
Are you reading much positivity towards brexit anywhere? You'd think there would be celebrations going on everywhere if the majority had voted for something so monumental in our countries history. There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
IndeedIt appears to only be Donald Trump who thought it was good and he said "They've taken their country back" to Scottish people, who wanted to remain.
Are you reading much positivity towards brexit anywhere? You'd think there would be celebrations going on everywhere if the majority had voted for something so monumental in our countries history. There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
Have their been any brexit parties recorded?
It all feels a bit sordid, a bit unglorious.
What does the queen reckon?
kING UP THE FUTUREIn five years I want an apology when the liberal left finally twig that those that voted leave have probably saved it for the younger generation.
el stovey said:
There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
Yes there is a Few of us are Celebrating that we had a fair democratic Ballot, One side did not like the result but the rest of us are elated. The Media needs to respect that decision but boy oh boy they won't drop it because they think their right, Sky news is being just as bad if not worse than the BBC!Now if you can get on with your jobs and help build up the country's prosperity that would be great. Thank you
davepoth said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: The Own Jones article is interesting because it does seem kind of spot on and there's a certain irony in that Guardian is guilty of what he complains about which is claiming to represent the values working class and the poor whilst ignoring the opinion of the real working class and poor.
Not often I agree with him but it's a good piece.
I think the penny might have dropped for him. Not often I agree with him but it's a good piece.
I think way too much airtime is given over to him personally
///ajd said:
el stovey said:
Right but the other slightly smaller number of the voters think it's a bad idea, as do our own government, the opposition, all the economists, business leaders, financial experts, leaders of other countries etc etc.
It appears to only be Donald Trump who thought it was good and he said "They've taken their country back" to Scottish people, who wanted to remain.
Are you reading much positivity towards brexit anywhere? You'd think there would be celebrations going on everywhere if the majority had voted for something so monumental in our countries history. There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
IndeedIt appears to only be Donald Trump who thought it was good and he said "They've taken their country back" to Scottish people, who wanted to remain.
Are you reading much positivity towards brexit anywhere? You'd think there would be celebrations going on everywhere if the majority had voted for something so monumental in our countries history. There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
Have their been any brexit parties recorded?
It all feels a bit sordid, a bit unglorious.
What does the queen reckon?
turbobloke said:
BlueHave said:
turbobloke said:
///ajd said:
el stovey said:
Right but the other slightly smaller number of the voters think it's a bad idea, as do our own government, the opposition, all the economists, business leaders, financial experts, leaders of other countries etc etc.
It appears to only be Donald Trump who thought it was good and he said "They've taken their country back" to Scottish people, who wanted to remain.
Are you reading much positivity towards brexit anywhere? You'd think there would be celebrations going on everywhere if the majority had voted for something so monumental in our countries history. There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
IndeedIt appears to only be Donald Trump who thought it was good and he said "They've taken their country back" to Scottish people, who wanted to remain.
Are you reading much positivity towards brexit anywhere? You'd think there would be celebrations going on everywhere if the majority had voted for something so monumental in our countries history. There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
Have their been any brexit parties recorded?
It all feels a bit sordid, a bit unglorious.
What does the queen reckon?
kING UP THE FUTUREIn five years I want an apology when the liberal left finally twig that those that voted leave have probably saved it for the younger generation.
We've all jumped off a cliff hoping there's a more comfy mattress to land on down below, when half ten population don't know what a mattress is.
Were't we a basket case of a country before joining tne EU?
Bit worried we are going back to ten early 70s.
Not fun.
philv said:
turbobloke said:
BlueHave said:
turbobloke said:
///ajd said:
el stovey said:
Right but the other slightly smaller number of the voters think it's a bad idea, as do our own government, the opposition, all the economists, business leaders, financial experts, leaders of other countries etc etc.
It appears to only be Donald Trump who thought it was good and he said "They've taken their country back" to Scottish people, who wanted to remain.
Are you reading much positivity towards brexit anywhere? You'd think there would be celebrations going on everywhere if the majority had voted for something so monumental in our countries history. There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
IndeedIt appears to only be Donald Trump who thought it was good and he said "They've taken their country back" to Scottish people, who wanted to remain.
Are you reading much positivity towards brexit anywhere? You'd think there would be celebrations going on everywhere if the majority had voted for something so monumental in our countries history. There's no good news to be found about Brexit anywhere.
Have their been any brexit parties recorded?
It all feels a bit sordid, a bit unglorious.
What does the queen reckon?
kING UP THE FUTUREIn five years I want an apology when the liberal left finally twig that those that voted leave have probably saved it for the younger generation.
Unfortunately opinion polls are rather clueless.
There's no way of knowing, but it's irrelevant to the result. We don't get a second chance in FPTP elections nor in referenda.
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