Results

[Boosted LS1]

sidicks said:

vonuber said:

The regions which recieved hundreds of millions of eu funding have lost. That won't get replaced.

Why not, says who?

Where the money be spent instead?

I thought it very interesting that most of Wales voted out despite having received lots of our/EU money. We should thank our Welsh buddies and make sure they get looked after post brexit. :-)

[sidicks]

mattmurdock said:

I'm looking at the longer view, the longer view where global organisations still influence our laws, where we are still a net contributor to the EU and still have free movement of labour - but to get to that, we have gone through a recession and general market turmoil across the globe.

Who says this is the certain outcome?

mattmurdock said:

Where I am struggling is how the leavers actually thought this would go? I can't really see any outcome that does not end with us being a net contributor to the EU, with free movement of labour (perhaps with some concession to benefits payments) and still beholden to the EHCR, which seems to me at odds with the expressed intent of the people who voted leave on Pistonheads.

Luckily plenty of others don't share your view.

mattmurdock said:

Added to that, pensions knackered in the short-term, businesses folding or relocating, more unemployment in the short-term and more austerity for the short-term.

Which pensions are 'knackered'?

mattmurdock said:

What cost is this 'sovereignty' that is pretty much a unicorn likely to inflict?

In your opinion.

[Tonsko]

I was reminded by a Punjabi friend, that whether intentional or not, the Leave vote was perceived by small minded people as a vote to get rid of non-whites. In the few days since, her family has suffered verbal abuse to that tune, and been refused service in a shop. So that is another legacy of this referendum that's put us back 30 years.

Edited by Tonsko on Monday 27th June 09:57

[sidicks]

Tonsko said:

I was reminded by a Punjabi friend, that whether intentional or not, the Leave vote was perceived by small minded people as a vote to get rid of non-whites. In the few days since, her family has suffered verbal abuse to that tune, and been refused service in a shop. So that is another legacy, that's put us back 30 years.

There are small-minded people on both sides - not sure what your point is.

[johnxjsc1985]

Tonsko said:

I was reminded by a Punjabi friend, that whether intentional or not, the Leave vote was perceived by small minded people as a vote to get rid of non-whites. In the few days since, her family has suffered verbal abuse to that tune, and been refused service in a shop. So that is another legacy, that's put us back 30 years.

so we have 17.5 million racists. There have been idiots in this Country forever that act in a manner which is disgusting it did not start after the Vote to leave.

[mattmurdock]

sidicks said:

In your opinion.

Given Boris and pretty much everyone else is making noises suggesting a slow withdrawal, continuation of the ability to live and work in the EU etc. it seems Vote Leave are quite clear there will be some negotiated free movement of people.

Given Norway was often held up as the model, and they have free movement of people and are a net contributor to the EU, why would our deal be any different?

The drop in the pound and the drop on global markets will have hit pension plans, and will probably continue to hit pension plans for the short-term.

What, aside from your own personal opinion as a leave voter, suggests in any way that the outcome will be different?

[Halb]

HoHoHo said:

If sufficient cross-party MP's vote not to Brexit (and that's the first vote that must happen as far as I'm aware) I'm not sure it will be the mass-suicide that might be expected.

MP's are (or should be) duty bound to act on behalf of and in the best wishes of their constituents and enough feel the deal isn't good enough for them and the country it's bye, bye Brexit.

As you suggest the referendum was really nothing more than a straw poll and it is not legally binding. I'm not convinced it will happen currently and it;s going to drag on for years

Do we have the numbers on leaver MPs and stayer MPs?

[Tonsko]

The point is that it's provided validation to those of small minds, now making it more ok for them to be overt in their prejudice. Not blaming anyone ofc, just wanted to illustrate perhaps an unanticipated effect to those of us that are white and will never have a problem with it.

[mattmurdock]

Halb said:

Do we have the numbers on leaver MPs and stayer MPs?

Apparently 500 or so supported the Remain campaign.

[sidicks]

mattmurdock said:

Given Boris and pretty much everyone else is making noises suggesting a slow withdrawal, continuation of the ability to live and work in the EU etc. it seems Vote Leave are quite clear there will be some negotiated free movement of people.

No details are available.

mattmurdock said:

Given Norway was often held up as the model and they have free movement of people and are a net contributor to the EU, why would our deal be any different?

By who? We are not Norway!

The drop in the pound and the drop on global markets will have hit pension plans, and will probably continue to hit pension plans for the short-term.

Markets go up and down all the time. The fall in the Pound will have increased the value of overseas assets.

mattmurdock said:

What, aside from your own personal opinion as a leave voter, suggests in any way that the outcome will be different?

Who said I was a leave voter? I'm just challenging the doom and gloom continually being posted by the losers / remainers.

[walm]

sidicks said:

Tonsko said:

I was reminded by a Punjabi friend, that whether intentional or not, the Leave vote was perceived by small minded people as a vote to get rid of non-whites. In the few days since, her family has suffered verbal abuse to that tune, and been refused service in a shop. So that is another legacy, that's put us back 30 years.

There are small-minded people on both sides - not sure what your point is.

The point is that this vote has given small minded racists legitimacy, in their own eyes.
Clearly they feel it is now far more acceptable to act on their thoughts.
Before the vote, it wasn't as acceptable, because they thought they were in the minority.

[sidicks]

walm said:

The point is that this vote has given small minded racists legitimacy, in their own eyes.
Clearly they feel it is now far more acceptable to act on their thoughts.
Before the vote, it wasn't as acceptable, because they thought they were in the minority.

They are in the minority.

HTH

[Murph7355]

sidicks said:

sidicks said:

walm said:

Not sure if serious... it will be spent in the EU!

Where did that money come from in the first place?

???

I think he's having to think about an answer to that one

It should probably start "my bad...I was confused between responses"

[mattmurdock]

sidicks said:

No details are available.

Did you not read his 'manifesto' piece in the Telegraph?

sidicks said:

Markets go up and down all the time. The fall in the Pound will have increased the value of overseas assets.

And the drop in value of those overseas markets will likely have eliminated any of that advantage.

sidicks said:

Who said I was a leave voter? I'm just challenging the doom and gloom continually being posted by the losers / remainers.

Given the 'immediate' realistic predictions for doom and gloom seem to be playing out as predicted, and given the above points from Boris and others in Vote Leave showing even when the markets right themselves and all of the negotiations are done, the most likely scenario is still free movement of labour and being a net contributor to the EU, I'd say the remainers may have a point.

[Tonsko]

walm said:

The point is that this vote has given small minded racists legitimacy, in their own eyes.
Clearly they feel it is now far more acceptable to act on their thoughts.
Before the vote, it wasn't as acceptable, because they thought they were in the minority.

That's it. I confess, it's not something that occurred to me would happen, to my shame, but why would it. Seems totally obvious in retrospect.

[RYH64E]

turbobloke said:

Short-term it could be worse. Then the agility could get going, where it exists.

Where agility exists is with the city folk and business people, who largely voted Remain. Where it doesn't exist is in the mass of Leave voters, the old, the disenfranchised and the stupid, who voted for this mess and now expect others to work hard to get them out of the st.

[walm]

sidicks said:

walm said:

The point is that this vote has given small minded racists legitimacy, in their own eyes.
Clearly they feel it is now far more acceptable to act on their thoughts.
Before the vote, it wasn't as acceptable, because they thought they were in the minority.

They are in the minority.

HTH

I know.
Sadly, I am not sure they think they are!!

[Tonsko]

sidicks said:

HTH

Not really.

Edited by Tonsko on Monday 27th June 10:18

[walm]

Murph7355 said:

sidicks said:

sidicks said:

walm said:

Not sure if serious... it will be spent in the EU!

Where did that money come from in the first place?

???

I think he's having to think about an answer to that one

I replied above!

[sidicks]

mattmurdock said:

And the drop in value of those overseas markets will likely have eliminated any of that advantage.

So negligible net change and entirely in line with how equities have moved in the past and will continue to do so in the future?

mattmurdock said:

Given the 'immediate' realistic predictions for doom and gloom seem to be playing out as predicted, and given the above points from Boris and others in Vote Leave showing even when the markets right themselves and all of the negotiations are done, the most likely scenario is still free movement of labour and being a net contributor to the EU, I'd say the remainers may have a point.

Short term volatility was to be expected and can be no surprise to anyone on either side. It is far too early to say how the negotiations will evolve.