Discussion
youngsyr said:
Does anyone care - politicians are like pet goldfish. They swim around producing s
t, they die, you flush 'em down the loo and get another.youngsyr said:
[X] Tories descend into bloody leadership election
It's what the tories do. Every 10 years or so. Don't you think it bodes well for us - in this time of uncertainty our natural reaction isn't to hide and cower, it's how can I turn this to my advantage. As a nation that's something we should be aspiring to. In fact, vote Gove, he's managed to stab both sides in the back.youngsyr said:
[X] Credit rating would be slashed
I can't argue with that. I mean, it's the same as France now.youngsyr said:
[X] Sturgeon would push for new Scottish independence referendum
And this is a surprise? In the end, if the people of Scotland want to go, what right do we have to stop them.youngsyr said:
[X] No plan for reducing immigration
Not really the job of the referendum.youngsyr said:
[X] Trump would declare joy at vote
So? He's a salesman. He thinks that response plays well to his followers.youngsyr said:
[ ] I would have chinese takeaway for dinner
To be fair I don't think the leave campaign had a published meal plan. On reflection I can't believe we voted out with that level of risk. I mean. It might be salad.don4l said:
Elroy Blue said:
The headlines scream 'Easyjet leaving'. When you look beyond the headlines, it's actually just their legal department that employs 'tend' of people. Basically, they might move an office
Well spotted.It is more or less the same with Vodaphone.
Dare we start yet another Brexit thread just for overblown doom mongering?
youngsyr said:
Tycho said:
ben5575 said:
Tycho said:
Like most of the remainers you are not looking further down the line. The path that the EU is taking will finish with no individual countries or their parliaments but only the EU high command. Do you think it is best to get away from that part now or later?
I think that Tesco's are doing a roaring trade in tin foil...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...
Anyone would think you were trying to mislead us.
AJS- said:
And by the way isn't it funny how all these bright and optimistic young geniuses have suddenly started seeing financial meltdown and misery at every turn, while us grumpy old thickos who were scared of our own shadow remain optimistic inspite of a bit of friction?
IMO the younger remain voters seem to be interested in short term and the leavers seem to be longer term. Obviously this isn't all of them but most of the people I know are like this.Tycho said:
AJS- said:
And by the way isn't it funny how all these bright and optimistic young geniuses have suddenly started seeing financial meltdown and misery at every turn, while us grumpy old thickos who were scared of our own shadow remain optimistic inspite of a bit of friction?
IMO the younger remain voters seem to be interested in short term and the leavers seem to be longer term. Obviously this isn't all of them but most of the people I know are like this.Tycho said:
IMO the younger remain voters seem to be interested in short term and the leavers seem to be longer term. Obviously this isn't all of them but most of the people I know are like this.
Sounds plausible. Though I found the whole "young people want to Remain" line didn't tally with my own experience anyway. The most vehement remainders I spoke to were babyboomers. I don't really know any properly young people but the people people I know in their early 30s were overwhelmingly Leave voters, and interestingly in most cases against their parents.
I also heard, but couldn't find anything to verify it that in absolute terms less 18-24 year olds voted Remain than any other group.
AJS- said:
I also heard, but couldn't find anything to verify it that in absolute terms less 18-24 year olds voted Remain than any other group.
Younger turnout was indeed lower than older, although I think that is usually the case for most elections.They're busy having fun no doubt, while us older folk have nothing better to do... or something!
youngsyr said:
What's your point - is it that because the Remain campaign couldn't predict the future with 100% accuracy, everyone should have voted leave?
Remind me which of the Leave campaign's promises/predictions have come true?
The issue there is that your original point was that if only people had understood the warnings regarding a Leave vote, they may not have voted Leave. Remind me which of the Leave campaign's promises/predictions have come true?
The issue is that as per the boy who cried Wolf, there was such patent b
ks included as key parts of the warnings, that the whole argument lost credibility. I'm on record as stating I didn't feel that Brexit was a land of milk and honey, and that I'd likely be economically effected. Yet in my opinion that was worth it. Hopefully you'd agree that as an individual I do have decent comprehension and logical skills, so mine wasn't an ill thought through vote, as many are in any public vote.
This warnings weren't for me, they were for the masses who only look at the issue superficially. That overblown doom and gloom (and it was seriously overblown) lost that argument.
Yes, the official Leave campaign is also guilty of spreading manure, but it was at least manure that resonated with voters.
Sam All said:
Tycho said:
AJS- said:
And by the way isn't it funny how all these bright and optimistic young geniuses have suddenly started seeing financial meltdown and misery at every turn, while us grumpy old thickos who were scared of our own shadow remain optimistic inspite of a bit of friction?
IMO the younger remain voters seem to be interested in short term and the leavers seem to be longer term. Obviously this isn't all of them but most of the people I know are like this.I suspect it's much more likely that those young people who are focused on the short term generally do not benefit from the security that elder people tend to have obtained (in terms of career, home, finances) and so are much more sensitive to short term shocks that the older generation can perhaps accept and attempt to ride out.
Sway said:
youngsyr said:
What's your point - is it that because the Remain campaign couldn't predict the future with 100% accuracy, everyone should have voted leave?
Remind me which of the Leave campaign's promises/predictions have come true?
The issue there is that your original point was that if only people had understood the warnings regarding a Leave vote, they may not have voted Leave. Remind me which of the Leave campaign's promises/predictions have come true?
The issue is that as per the boy who cried Wolf, there was such patent b
ks included as key parts of the warnings, that the whole argument lost credibility. I'm on record as stating I didn't feel that Brexit was a land of milk and honey, and that I'd likely be economically effected. Yet in my opinion that was worth it. Hopefully you'd agree that as an individual I do have decent comprehension and logical skills, so mine wasn't an ill thought through vote, as many are in any public vote.
This warnings weren't for me, they were for the masses who only look at the issue superficially. That overblown doom and gloom (and it was seriously overblown) lost that argument.
Yes, the official Leave campaign is also guilty of spreading manure, but it was at least manure that resonated with voters.
Secondly, are you really be excusing bulls
t campaign claims so long as they "resonate with voters" (whatever the hell that means)?!Sway said:
I'm on record as stating I didn't feel that Brexit was a land of milk and honey, and that I'd likely be economically effected. Yet in my opinion that was worth it. Hopefully you'd agree that as an individual I do have decent comprehension and logical skills, so mine wasn't an ill thought through vote, as many are in any public vote.
I think this is the nub of the matter. Some people will be more profoundly affected by Brexit than others. For example we will still need domestic plumbers in or out of the EU. However, if you work in industries with significant exposure to the EU markets or those that may be hit hardest by a UK recession you will suffer more. I think that office development in London, the residential housing market and financial services will all be hit to some extent.
So, some people will hardly notice the downside of Brexit, but others will have a difficult time and potentially even lose their jobs. I see the risk to my job and financial security as significant.
I think the upside is similarly mixed. I have no axe to grind with the EU and do not believe that we are at risk of being tricked into joining a European superstate. I also think that access to the single market is worth more than the amount we pay to the EU. I don't have an issue with freedom of movement and my life has not been affected by issues around immigration. I do consider that the EU is overly bureaucratic and would welcome some simplification of process and law. But I don't think a stand alone UK will be much better.
So for me, Brexit is almost exclusively downside risk. On that basis, I can't possibly agree with those who feel it is 'worth it'.
This is not just a selfish viewpoint as, so far as I can really see, the upsides that people are hoping for have no value. In summary, some people will suffer and none will significantly gain = not worth it!
youngsyr said:
Sway said:
youngsyr said:
What's your point - is it that because the Remain campaign couldn't predict the future with 100% accuracy, everyone should have voted leave?
Remind me which of the Leave campaign's promises/predictions have come true?
The issue there is that your original point was that if only people had understood the warnings regarding a Leave vote, they may not have voted Leave. Remind me which of the Leave campaign's promises/predictions have come true?
The issue is that as per the boy who cried Wolf, there was such patent b
ks included as key parts of the warnings, that the whole argument lost credibility. I'm on record as stating I didn't feel that Brexit was a land of milk and honey, and that I'd likely be economically effected. Yet in my opinion that was worth it. Hopefully you'd agree that as an individual I do have decent comprehension and logical skills, so mine wasn't an ill thought through vote, as many are in any public vote.
This warnings weren't for me, they were for the masses who only look at the issue superficially. That overblown doom and gloom (and it was seriously overblown) lost that argument.
Yes, the official Leave campaign is also guilty of spreading manure, but it was at least manure that resonated with voters.
Secondly, are you really be excusing bulls
t campaign claims so long as they "resonate with voters" (whatever the hell that means)?!War? The thought that a union was otherwise stable, but Brexit would cause the conditions for war in Europe is ridiculous.
Environmental catastrophe? Mass shredding of employment laws?
I think I'm safe in stating my confidence that these things are not going to happen directly as a consequence of Brexit.
I'm not saying any political campaign talking crap is acceptable in the slightest. Drives me bloody mental. However, they both talked hyperbolic rubbish in order to drive a simple message into those whose preparation to express their democratic choice comes down to sticking the nine o'clock news on a couple of days before, or asking Dave (cause he seems like a switched on bloke) for his one line opinion down the boozer.
Dave at the bar (you know, top bloke, always in here and is always talking about political stuff) didn't pass on the one liner of 'it's bloody terrifying, it'll cause WW3'. That's why Leave won. They got their message out there, clearly and succinctly.
What slogan was on the BetterTogether battlebus? I have zero idea. I know every word of the Remain one, it was shoved in my face every time I switched the TV on.
youngsyr said:
Stickyfinger said:
youngsyr said:
What's your point - is it that because the Remain campaign couldn't predict the future with 100% accuracy, everyone should have voted leave?
Remind me which of the Leave campaign's promises/predictions have come true?
Leave is a long term action to protect your sovereignty and democratic rights.Remind me which of the Leave campaign's promises/predictions have come true?
"predict the future", remind me.....how many days ?
Some really interesting arguments being put forward by the pro Leave side on here.
The referendum has taken place remember and the whole country voted/had the right to vote.
A result was declared and that was to Leave the European UNION.
The UNITED Kingdom voted to reject the European UNION by majority vote. It really is that simple.....get on with life.
youngsyr said:
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote...
[X] Cameron would resign
[X] Tories descend into bloody leadership election
[X] Credit rating would be slashed
[X] Sturgeon would push for new Scottish independence referendum
[X] No plan for reducing immigration
[X] Trump would declare joy at vote
[ ] I would have chinese takeaway for dinner
Still, 6 out of 7 isn't too bad for Project Fear, is it?
Still time to order some chow mein... [X] Cameron would resign
[X] Tories descend into bloody leadership election
[X] Credit rating would be slashed
[X] Sturgeon would push for new Scottish independence referendum
[X] No plan for reducing immigration
[X] Trump would declare joy at vote
[ ] I would have chinese takeaway for dinner
Still, 6 out of 7 isn't too bad for Project Fear, is it?
AJS- said:
don4l said:
Elroy Blue said:
The headlines scream 'Easyjet leaving'. When you look beyond the headlines, it's actually just their legal department that employs 'tend' of people. Basically, they might move an office
Well spotted.It is more or less the same with Vodaphone.
Dare we start yet another Brexit thread just for overblown doom mongering?
I doubt that even 100 people are involved.
In 1987 I worked in a building with a corporate HQ on the floor above. There were 6 people controlling an £800M a year business.
We appear to be witnessing the biggest mass sulk in history.
Now, if only the Bedwetters Broadcasting Corporation would bugger off to Europe. Wouldn't that be good. People might begin to calm down if we were fed a bit less of Guardian fuelled leftie doom.
Elysium said:
I think this is the nub of the matter. Some people will be more profoundly affected by Brexit than others. For example we will still need domestic plumbers in or out of the EU.
However, if you work in industries with significant exposure to the EU markets or those that may be hit hardest by a UK recession you will suffer more. I think that office development in London, the residential housing market and financial services will all be hit to some extent.
So, some people will hardly notice the downside of Brexit, but others will have a difficult time and potentially even lose their jobs. I see the risk to my job and financial security as significant.
I think the upside is similarly mixed. I have no axe to grind with the EU and do not believe that we are at risk of being tricked into joining a European superstate. I also think that access to the single market is worth more than the amount we pay to the EU. I don't have an issue with freedom of movement and my life has not been affected by issues around immigration. I do consider that the EU is overly bureaucratic and would welcome some simplification of process and law. But I don't think a stand alone UK will be much better.
So for me, Brexit is almost exclusively downside risk. On that basis, I can't possibly agree with those who feel it is 'worth it'.
This is not just a selfish viewpoint as, so far as I can really see, the upsides that people are hoping for have no value. In summary, some people will suffer and none will significantly gain = not worth it!
Even those not directly affected will still be affected indirectly. Companies losing business or choosing to relocate to safeguard business will pay less tax, employees who lose their jobs will pay less tax and maybe move on to benefits, less money in redundant employee's pockets means less money spent in the shops, less taxes overall mean less money available to fund public services, so less money (not more) for the NHS. It doesn't take much of a drop in GDP for everyone to feel the effects.However, if you work in industries with significant exposure to the EU markets or those that may be hit hardest by a UK recession you will suffer more. I think that office development in London, the residential housing market and financial services will all be hit to some extent.
So, some people will hardly notice the downside of Brexit, but others will have a difficult time and potentially even lose their jobs. I see the risk to my job and financial security as significant.
I think the upside is similarly mixed. I have no axe to grind with the EU and do not believe that we are at risk of being tricked into joining a European superstate. I also think that access to the single market is worth more than the amount we pay to the EU. I don't have an issue with freedom of movement and my life has not been affected by issues around immigration. I do consider that the EU is overly bureaucratic and would welcome some simplification of process and law. But I don't think a stand alone UK will be much better.
So for me, Brexit is almost exclusively downside risk. On that basis, I can't possibly agree with those who feel it is 'worth it'.
This is not just a selfish viewpoint as, so far as I can really see, the upsides that people are hoping for have no value. In summary, some people will suffer and none will significantly gain = not worth it!
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