Discussion
fatboy18 said:
Pulled up outside a business today to do some repairs in their office, company owner met me and said you will have to remove those flags off your van as England are out of the football now, I then explained to him they were not there for the football 
That's one for the 'a bit council' thread!Sway said:
Elysium said:
Sway said:
I'm on record as stating I didn't feel that Brexit was a land of milk and honey, and that I'd likely be economically effected. Yet in my opinion that was worth it. Hopefully you'd agree that as an individual I do have decent comprehension and logical skills, so mine wasn't an ill thought through vote, as many are in any public vote.
I think this is the nub of the matter. Some people will be more profoundly affected by Brexit than others. For example we will still need domestic plumbers in or out of the EU. However, if you work in industries with significant exposure to the EU markets or those that may be hit hardest by a UK recession you will suffer more. I think that office development in London, the residential housing market and financial services will all be hit to some extent.
So, some people will hardly notice the downside of Brexit, but others will have a difficult time and potentially even lose their jobs. I see the risk to my job and financial security as significant.
I think the upside is similarly mixed. I have no axe to grind with the EU and do not believe that we are at risk of being tricked into joining a European superstate. I also think that access to the single market is worth more than the amount we pay to the EU. I don't have an issue with freedom of movement and my life has not been affected by issues around immigration. I do consider that the EU is overly bureaucratic and would welcome some simplification of process and law. But I don't think a stand alone UK will be much better.
So for me, Brexit is almost exclusively downside risk. On that basis, I can't possibly agree with those who feel it is 'worth it'.
This is not just a selfish viewpoint as, so far as I can really see, the upsides that people are hoping for have no value. In summary, some people will suffer and none will significantly gain = not worth it!
I'm also (with no intention of an impression of piety) thinking long term - not a decade or two, but several decades. When we joined, the world was dominated by big clubs who hated each other. Strength was decided by size.
That's changed. If anything, the rise of personal technology and communication has led to a far bigger upside to being small, flexible and agile. Ability to adapt is king.
I feel that we're far better able to recognise challenges, adapt and thrive with them as the UK. A nation of inventors, that culture still holds strong.
I also look at the history of the EU. At no point, not one, has there been any contraction in it's reach and scope. Incremental or large, the direction of travel has been one way. In my opinion, any image of democracy is veneer thin at best, and I cannot support that.
Regardless of vote, it's done. We can look backwards and fight for rerun, or loophole, or whatever - all that does is prolong the agony, if that's what you believe is occurring currently. The game has shifted, and we as the electorate need to adapt to suit (leave or remain) - worrying about the referendum or the last week's activity in the markets won't improve the situation - engaging with the new paradigm and helping to shape it to the best for all in the circumstances is the key to the country getting back to thriving.
We are leaving the EU. We're more than capable of thriving long term in any environment, but if we keep fannying about moaning (not directed at anyone specific) then we're risking missing the opportunities (and there are lots) that are on the table...
Trabi601 said:
fatboy18 said:
Pulled up outside a business today to do some repairs in their office, company owner met me and said you will have to remove those flags off your van as England are out of the football now, I then explained to him they were not there for the football
That's one for the 'a bit council' thread!She's an opinionated, snobbish b1tch too.
k this thread....GO WALES !!!!!!!!!!!
Einion Yrth said:
Trabi601 said:
fatboy18 said:
Pulled up outside a business today to do some repairs in their office, company owner met me and said you will have to remove those flags off your van as England are out of the football now, I then explained to him they were not there for the football
That's one for the 'a bit council' thread!She's an opinionated, snobbish b1tch too.
Trabi601 said:
fatboy18 said:
Pulled up outside a business today to do some repairs in their office, company owner met me and said you will have to remove those flags off your van as England are out of the football now, I then explained to him they were not there for the football
That's one for the 'a bit council' thread!Let me ask you a question.
Do you own your own house?
Do you think that you own your own house, but have a mortgage?
Or do you live in a council house?
Please tell us. Snobbery is not very nice.
don4l said:
Trabi601 said:
fatboy18 said:
Pulled up outside a business today to do some repairs in their office, company owner met me and said you will have to remove those flags off your van as England are out of the football now, I then explained to him they were not there for the football
That's one for the 'a bit council' thread!Let me ask you a question.
Do you own your own house?
Do you think that you own your own house, but have a mortgage?
Or do you live in a council house?
Please tell us. Snobbery is not very nice.
s2art said:
Trabi601 said:
Much the same could be said of the UK. You don't think the civil servants will let the MPs do anything too radical, do you?
Tell that to the civil service during the Thatcher era.The point is, civil servants can advise, object, obfuscate, vacillate and delay. They cannot refuse or disregard a direct order.
The European Commission can take a piece of legislation amended by the European Parliament, remove any or all amendments, and re-present it for approval. The EP does not have the power permanently to amend legislation, nor, even more importantly, to introduce or repeal it.
handpaper said:
...The point is, civil servants can advise, object, obfuscate, vacillate and delay. They cannot refuse or disregard a direct order.
The European Commission can take a piece of legislation amended by the European Parliament, remove any or all amendments, and re-present it for approval. The EP does not have the power permanently to amend legislation, nor, even more importantly, to introduce or repeal it.
It's surprising that many "Remainers" do not seem to realise that the way legislation is proposed and approved in the EU is fundamentally different from the UK's parliamentary system. The European Commission can take a piece of legislation amended by the European Parliament, remove any or all amendments, and re-present it for approval. The EP does not have the power permanently to amend legislation, nor, even more importantly, to introduce or repeal it.
I suspect that they would not be keen on introducing the EU system to UK law-making.
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