Results

[irocfan]

///ajd said:

Mmmm. France can't wait to stitch us up and welcome financial services to Paris.

Can't say I'm surprised or blame them - in their shoes I'd do the same if such a gift arose. Still I'm sure those billions in taxes and well paid jobs are worth giving up for the thousands of pounds worth of extra trade with can now do with NZ.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/01/brex...

Hardly news really is it? The bds were trying it on before Brexit was even mooted (as were the Germans)... so much for a happy Euro family

[AJS-]

Amateurish said:

ONS says French workers are 30% more productive on a GDP / hour worked basis.


http://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandpro...

Which neatly highlights the problem with the Remainders reliance on statistics and experts, without apparently having the ability to probe the statistics or question the experts.

That basis for analysing productivity is so broad as to be meaningless. Compare like with like. Is a given French worker actually 30% more productive than his English counterpart? Could a factory in Kent become 30% more efficient by moving to Calais? Do French workers earn 30% more for the same work?

No to all of them.

Or why does France have double our unemployment rate? Why are French salaries in many cases lower? Why are many consumer goods more expensive in France than they are in the UK?

It is much more complicated than GDP/houra worked, which are themselves only hugely broad numbers. The bald statistic masks a web of complexity including high labour costs, over automation, different welfare systems and much more besides.

[Amateurish]

Worker output per hour is the standard measure of productivity. You asked for the source for my claim that French workers are more productive and I gave it - the ONS. Would you prefer the FT or any of the plethora of other sources you can find with a simple Google?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c413ca76-ce3c-11e4-86fc-...

You sound like Gove - you've had enough of experts now.

[jjlynn27]

irocfan said:

Hardly news really is it? The bds were trying it on before Brexit was even mooted (as were the Germans)... so much for a happy Euro family

I'm not sure what business are you in, but we regularly poach businesses from Dutch and Germans. 'Happy family'? The fact that City and Lord Hill managed to keep things in London, despite Euro, is credit to both.

[AJS-]

No. I have had enough of taking headline pronouncements at face value chosen to suit a particular agenda.

As I explained the raw statistic does not show that French workers are more productive at all. It provides a very high level starting point to look further into the difference.

[///ajd]

jjlynn27 said:

irocfan said:

Hardly news really is it? The bds were trying it on before Brexit was even mooted (as were the Germans)... so much for a happy Euro family

I'm not sure what business are you in, but we regularly poach businesses from Dutch and Germans. 'Happy family'? The fact that City and Lord Hill managed to keep things in London, despite Euro, is credit to both.

Yes it was remarkable how well we maintained our position in the EU are used our long standing and influence to keep all the good bits and avoid the bits we didn't want. No one enjoyed the exemptions we did.

To say this has been under appreciated would be a gross understatement.

Cameron gambled that no one in their right mind would toss it away.

[-Pete-]

My french colleagues are lazy as f*** and get 9-10 weeks holiday a year. With zero risk of being laid off.

[PRTVR]

Amateurish said:

Worker output per hour is the standard measure of productivity. You asked for the source for my claim that French workers are more productive and I gave it - the ONS. Would you prefer the FT or any of the plethora of other sources you can find with a simple Google?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c413ca76-ce3c-11e4-86fc-...

You sound like Gove - you've had enough of experts now.

As AJS said it is not as simple as a number, I remember watching a business program, a firm had a factory in France and one in the UK, the MD said that they had had to mechanize the factory in France due to the restrictive employment laws in France compared to the UK, given the choice the would have ran the Factory in France with more workers and less machinery.

[youngsyr]

confused_buyer said:

Stickyfinger said:

Yeh.....The banks will love a 35 hour week and French employment "rights"

If they go it will not be to Paris 100%

"They" cannot force a date either whatever they say

Edited by Stickyfinger on Saturday 2nd July 19:21

If they go to Paris it will be 2047 by the time they get all the forms filled in to take on two extra staff. That is always assuming the Form Filling Union aren't on strike for 65% of the next 30 years of course.

They might go to Frankfurt, possibly Dublin but not Paris I reckon.

Edinburgh is a shoe in if Sotland goes independent and rejoin the EU.

[davepoth]

PRTVR said:

Amateurish said:

Worker output per hour is the standard measure of productivity. You asked for the source for my claim that French workers are more productive and I gave it - the ONS. Would you prefer the FT or any of the plethora of other sources you can find with a simple Google?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c413ca76-ce3c-11e4-86fc-...

You sound like Gove - you've had enough of experts now.

As AJS said it is not as simple as a number, I remember watching a business program, a firm had a factory in France and one in the UK, the MD said that they had had to mechanize the factory in France due to the restrictive employment laws in France compared to the UK, given the choice the would have ran the Factory in France with more workers and less machinery.

Quite. Productivity is GDP per hour worked - if your workforce is substantially engaged in minimum wage service roles where it's not really possible to mechanise and reduce the number of workers to do the work (coffee shop, for example) your productivity will be low.

[Axionknight]

youngsyr said:

Edinburgh is a shoe in if Sotland goes independent and rejoin the EU.

So it isn't really a shoe in at all, then?

[youngsyr]

Axionknight said:

youngsyr said:

Edinburgh is a shoe in if Sotland goes independent and rejoin the EU.

So it isn't really a shoe in at all, then?

Is my use of the word "if" confusing?

[Abbott]

https://www.facebook.com/peteacousticshaw/videos/1...
This was quite a good attack on Farage and then i found his fianal comments exactly where I do not think the EU should go

[paul789]

Ok, out of interest - 2 questions (Would normally start a new thread) Which way did you
Vote? If employed, how long could you survive if you lost your job tomorrow?

Me, remain (agonised over it), 2 years.

[AJS-]

paul789 said:

Ok, out of interest - 2 questions (Would normally start a new thread) Which way did you
Vote? If employed, how long could you survive if you lost your job tomorrow?

Me, remain (agonised over it), 2 years.

Self employed. Could last until about Thursday lunchtime.

Voted Leave because it's a once in my lifetime chance to assert the most valuable thing that most of us have, namely the privilege of living in a democratic country where the people elect and kick out those who run the country.

And money where my mouth is, I checked the shares I have on the day of the results and all were down hugely. The contract I am on will probably keep me around Europe for the next couple of years, so could potentially be difficult. Didn't waver for a second.

[Disastrous]

AJS- said:

paul789 said:

Ok, out of interest - 2 questions (Would normally start a new thread) Which way did you
Vote? If employed, how long could you survive if you lost your job tomorrow?

Me, remain (agonised over it), 2 years.

Self employed. Could last until about Thursday lunchtime.

Voted Leave because it's a once in my lifetime chance to assert the most valuable thing that most of us have, namely the privilege of living in a democratic country where the people elect and kick out those who run the country.

And money where my mouth is, I checked the shares I have on the day of the results and all were down hugely. The contract I am on will probably keep me around Europe for the next couple of years, so could potentially be difficult. Didn't waver for a second.

See also: Turkeys voting for Christmas

[AJS-]

Disastrous said:

See also: Turkeys voting for Christmas

It's called having principles.

[Disastrous]

AJS- said:

Disastrous said:

See also: Turkeys voting for Christmas

It's called having principles.

Yes, I too would much rather pay my mortgage with 'sovereignty' than actual money. Does the illusion of control and democracy make you feel that much better?

Also, do you think that having voted for it, Brexit will actually happen? And if it doesn't, will that not upset your belief in democracy??

[walm]

Disastrous said:

Yes, I too would much rather pay my mortgage with 'sovereignty' than actual money.

Harsh.
But fair.
In fact, quite funny if it weren't painfully on point.

[AJS-]

Disastrous said:

Yes, I too would much rather pay my mortgage with 'sovereignty' than actual money. Does the illusion of control and democracy make you feel that much better?

Also, do you think that having voted for it, Brexit will actually happen? And if it doesn't, will that not upset your belief in democracy??

Yes I feel great about the result, thanks. I am confident enough in myself and the country to believe I will be able to feed and house myself outside the EU.

I think it will happen. There may be an attempt to fudge it, but the foul tempered recriminations of the witless cowards who initially sought to ignore the result altogether seem to be drying up.

If it doesn't happen we don't live in a democracy.