Discussion
thouse.
I have heard a few times on the TV, from various people of a left persuasion that they like the EU so much because of Angela Merkal - I have even heard one say that 'The EU is like a Big Lefty Organisation'. She shares the left's political ideology, and they openly say that they like to use her as a buffer to the 'Nasty Tories'. Essentially, they think they have someone to run and cry to if they do not like the elected government's policies.
What would their reaction to the vote be, I wonder, if it were a more centrist/right-leaning EU that didn't align so nicely with their own ideology/political stance. Would they still want to stay in?
What would their reaction to the vote be, I wonder, if it were a more centrist/right-leaning EU that didn't align so nicely with their own ideology/political stance. Would they still want to stay in?
chris watton said:
I have heard a few times on the TV, from various people of a left persuasion that they like the EU so much because of Angela Merkal - I have even heard one say that 'The EU is like a Big Lefty Organisation'. She shares the left's political ideology, and they openly say that they like to use her as a buffer to the 'Nasty Tories'. Essentially, they think they have someone to run and cry to if they do not like the elected government's policies.
What would their reaction to the vote be, I wonder, if it were a more centrist/right-leaning EU that didn't align so nicely with their own ideology/political stance. Would they still want to stay in?
A lot of people did say that if the EU reverted back to something like the original EEC, a free trade area, then they would vote to stay. Is that anything surprising?What would their reaction to the vote be, I wonder, if it were a more centrist/right-leaning EU that didn't align so nicely with their own ideology/political stance. Would they still want to stay in?
cloggy said:
Disastrous said:
Arrogance mainly, cloggers 
Does not surprise me Dis.I don't know if there is such a thing as a right and wrong decision in this. Only time will tell I suppose.
That said, I voted for the option that caused the least disruption and uncertainty/loss of income for me and my business.
AJS appears to have voluntarily voted for something to his own personal cost. Principles are admirable but to me that is a wrong decision.
As always, each to their own and I hope my flippancy is implicit.
chris watton said:
I have heard a few times on the TV, from various people of a left persuasion that they like the EU so much because of Angela Merkal - I have even heard one say that 'The EU is like a Big Lefty Organisation'. She shares the left's political ideology, and they openly say that they like to use her as a buffer to the 'Nasty Tories'. Essentially, they think they have someone to run and cry to if they do not like the elected government's policies.
What would their reaction to the vote be, I wonder, if it were a more centrist/right-leaning EU that didn't align so nicely with their own ideology/political stance. Would they still want to stay in?
This is the root of the original left wing opposition to the EU. It used to be seen as a nasty right wing capitalist organisation, now it is full left of centre leaders. Austria failed to go hard right by a gnat's chuff a few weeks ago, and the election is being re-run. I can't see Merkel surviving beyond the next domestic election, which could massively change the dynamic.What would their reaction to the vote be, I wonder, if it were a more centrist/right-leaning EU that didn't align so nicely with their own ideology/political stance. Would they still want to stay in?
Disastrous said:
I hope you realise I'm being flippant but in case you think I'm serious, a more honest answer would be:
I don't know if there is such a thing as a right and wrong decision in this. Only time will tell I suppose.
That said, I voted for the option that caused the least disruption and uncertainty/loss of income for me and my business.
AJS appears to have voluntarily voted for something to his own personal cost. Principles are admirable but to me that is a wrong decision.
As always, each to their own and I hope my flippancy is implicit.
Everyone makes compromises, to me the right and wrong was too clear to be swung by a fairly short term financial interest being possibly jeopardised.I don't know if there is such a thing as a right and wrong decision in this. Only time will tell I suppose.
That said, I voted for the option that caused the least disruption and uncertainty/loss of income for me and my business.
AJS appears to have voluntarily voted for something to his own personal cost. Principles are admirable but to me that is a wrong decision.
As always, each to their own and I hope my flippancy is implicit.
Risk rather than cost, for a reward that I wouldn't quantify in cash.
Of course if I really believed that I would be left in grinding poverty for the rest of my life by leaving then it might be different, but I don't that for one minute. And more importantly if that was the case then there would be something much better about the EU or much worse about Britain than I currently see.
AJS- said:
Voted Leave because it's a once in my lifetime chance to assert the most valuable thing that most of us have, namely the privilege of living in a democratic country where the people elect and kick out those who run the country.
I don't get this.As many of you will know I'm a Scottish nationalist with no real affection for the UK, so I'm very aware of what powers ore exercised by which "foreign power" and it's very, very rarely the EU.
Despite all the "blame Europe" lies spouted by governments of all colours, the EU can only do what its members have specifically authorised it to do.
There is nothing as anti-democratic and un-sackable as the House of Lords in any of the organs of the EU.
Sitting where I am the EU looks like a members' club with excellent facilities for a very reasonable cost, whereas the UK looks like an exceedingly expensive affront to democracy with an unrepresentative and un-sackable government!
Oh, I'm self employed, I'll likely be fine, especially if I get myself an EU passport.
AJS- said:
If it doesn't happen we don't live in a democracy.
We don't.The current "majority" government has the support of less than a quarter of the electorate, and the "Leave" campaign seemed to be based around direct lies - £350m/week savings, Turkish membership imminent, no veto, etc... - and the franchise was unreasonably restricted.
Disastrous said:
AJS- said:
paul789 said:
Ok, out of interest - 2 questions (Would normally start a new thread) Which way did you
Vote? If employed, how long could you survive if you lost your job tomorrow?
Me, remain (agonised over it), 2 years.
Self employed. Could last until about Thursday lunchtime. Vote? If employed, how long could you survive if you lost your job tomorrow?
Me, remain (agonised over it), 2 years.
Voted Leave because it's a once in my lifetime chance to assert the most valuable thing that most of us have, namely the privilege of living in a democratic country where the people elect and kick out those who run the country.
And money where my mouth is, I checked the shares I have on the day of the results and all were down hugely. The contract I am on will probably keep me around Europe for the next couple of years, so could potentially be difficult. Didn't waver for a second.
I only ask because that indicates to me that (despite agonising over it for 2 years which indicates that you considered for a long time before voting remain) you are very dismissive of any reply that isn't aligned with your own viewpoint and that's hardly going to make even a remotely interesting debate and consequently a piss poor thread....
But I'll give you another chance
I voted leave
Firstly because I don't see a future in the EU - it's flawed and I believe corrupt and we already have a layer of government in the UK we don't need another layer. My hope is that a leave vote either gets us out or begins a process or reversal for the European Superstate.
Secondly because whilst I agree that immigration can be a good thing I have first hand experience of what uncontrolled immigration can do to a small market town in rural Norfolk and it's not pleasant. I am not xenophobic or racist I work with people from Spain, Portugal, Poland and all and have a good working relationship with them all but whilst they were not entitled to vote many have said to me that they would have voted leave
I have no doubt that I will probably have some short term personal pain but I've been through a recession where interest rates were 17% and I had to work two jobs to keep my house - I don't anticipate that it will be anything like as bad as it was in the 80's but if I need to make sacrifices I will.
AJS- said:
paul789 said:
Ok, out of interest - 2 questions (Would normally start a new thread) Which way did you
Vote? If employed, how long could you survive if you lost your job tomorrow?
Me, remain (agonised over it), 2 years.
Self employed. Could last until about Thursday lunchtime. Vote? If employed, how long could you survive if you lost your job tomorrow?
Me, remain (agonised over it), 2 years.
Voted Leave because it's a once in my lifetime chance to assert the most valuable thing that most of us have, namely the privilege of living in a democratic country where the people elect and kick out those who run the country.
And money where my mouth is, I checked the shares I have on the day of the results and all were down hugely. The contract I am on will probably keep me around Europe for the next couple of years, so could potentially be difficult. Didn't waver for a second.
Agree about the principle and did the same, voted leave.
No shares so nothing lost there, but I do have a house a Brittany which is now worth slightly more in sterling, but no Brits would be likely to buy it and the French aren't interested. I'm not wanting to sell so not an issue. Maybe leaving the EU will make ownership of it slightly more complex, but a price well worth paying.
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