Results

[don4l]

walm said:

don4l said:

I've explained my reasons for voting Leave many times. They are primarily economic, and based on the fact that I believe that EU Regulations account for 5% of business costs.

However, when I have tried to discuss these issues, I get told that I am an old, white, uneducated racist who wants to kick all the foreigners out. You have actually done it again just above.

Earlier today, I mentioned that I do not feel it is necessary to negotiate a trade deal with the EU. My point was dismissed as a "typical Kipper" viewpoint. Not even the faintest effort to consider the benefits or costs of any deal.

You are a grade A moron if you think there is no need to negotiate a trade deal with the EU.

You are also a grade A moron if you think that EU regulations account for 5% of business costs.
Citation needed.

Here's mine: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...

Your post proves my point very nicely. Thank you.

Are David Owen and Nigel Lawson also grade A morons?

Thanks for the BBC link. However, if you don't mind, I will use my own company's accounts to tell me how much EU regulation is costing me.

disastrous, do you now understand where I am coming from? I'm now an old, white, uneducated racist moron.

[don4l]

rscott said:

don4l said:

Disastrous said:

I've just seen and heard so many people who have made their decision on this based on actual lies from the Leave campaign (though let's not get that one going again!), fear of 'foreigners', protest at 'arrogant' Tories etc. that I fear that many have made this decision for the wrong reasons. That scares me a bit. Not to mention halfwits like don4l who seem to base their entire political personae on the notion of 'winding up lefties' which is a terrifyingly childish way to make big decisions and debate issues.

I've explained my reasons for voting Leave many times. They are primarily economic, and based on the fact that I believe that EU Regulations account for 5% of business costs.

However, when I have tried to discuss these issues, I get told that I am an old, white, uneducated racist who wants to kick all the foreigners out. You have actually done it again just above.

Earlier today, I mentioned that I do not feel it is necessary to negotiate a trade deal with the EU. My point was dismissed as a "typical Kipper" viewpoint. Not even the faintest effort to consider the benefits or costs of any deal.

It's odd - you claim that you believe EU Regulations account for 5% of business costs, yet when asked for specific examples of EU Regulations which have caused problems (over in the other thread), you've not been able to give a single example which affects your business.
The only one you've mentioned was RoHS, variants of which are being implemented in many non-EU countries anyway.

I don't know which thread you mean. There are so many that it is difficult to keep up.

However, one of the clearest examples are thee WEEE regulations. Essentially, I send £1000.00 a year so that I can dispose of equipment when it reaches end of life. To date, I have sent off £14,000, but no customer has ever sent any equipment back to us. I might as well have flushed the money down the toilet.

[andyps]

WCZ said:

chris watton said:

Oh look, according to this Ipsos MORI poll only 3% of Leavers regret their votes. And 4% of Remainers regret theirs! (From a Brendan O Neil post)

what? why would any remainer regret their vote, isn't that a pardox ?

Why would it be any different for a remainer to regret their vote to a leaver? People change their minds, sometimes just because they do, sometimes because they get more information. Both these apply to people who voted for either option.

[Ridgemont]

andyps said:

WCZ said:

chris watton said:

Oh look, according to this Ipsos MORI poll only 3% of Leavers regret their votes. And 4% of Remainers regret theirs! (From a Brendan O Neil post)

what? why would any remainer regret their vote, isn't that a pardox ?

Why would it be any different for a remainer to regret their vote to a leaver? People change their minds, sometimes just because they do, sometimes because they get more information. Both these apply to people who voted for either option.

My brother voted remain, but regretted it: decided on the side of caution but then felt as if he'd missed an opportunity to make a difference.

[walm]

don4l said:

Your post proves my point very nicely. Thank you.

Are David Owen and Nigel Lawson also grade A morons?

Thanks for the BBC link. However, if you don't mind, I will use my own company's accounts to tell me how much EU regulation is costing me.

disastrous, do you now understand where I am coming from? I'm now an old, white, uneducated racist moron.

Oh - I am sorry - YOUR accounts.
Obviously when you said, "I believe EU regulations account for 5% of business costs"... what you really meant is "I have no idea about anyone else but for my business it's 5% therefore my comment is relevant to precisely no one other than me."

There I was thinking you had made a statement that might actually be relevant to the debate for THE WHOLE COUNTRY.
Not just one blinkered individual.

Your heroes Owen and Lawson explicitly suggested yesterday that we "carry over all the EU law that currently applies to the UK into domestic law, so that at the outset, nothing changes at all."

What is that going to do to your accounts???

Here is what your heroes have to say on negotiating with the EU...
"we should not attempt to dictate the shape of any trade negotiations except to say WE ARE READY TO NEGOTIATE."

Honestly - can you even read?

[chris watton]

andyps said:

WCZ said:

chris watton said:

Oh look, according to this Ipsos MORI poll only 3% of Leavers regret their votes. And 4% of Remainers regret theirs! (From a Brendan O Neil post)

what? why would any remainer regret their vote, isn't that a pardox ?

Why would it be any different for a remainer to regret their vote to a leaver? People change their minds, sometimes just because they do, sometimes because they get more information. Both these apply to people who voted for either option.

I posted that because the media is trying to make it look as though there are tens of thousands who voted leave but now wished they'd voted remain. Clearly, this is not true.

[walm]

chris watton said:

Oh look, according to this Ipsos MORI poll only 3% of Leavers regret their votes.

chris watton said:

The media is trying to make it look as though there are tens of thousands who voted leave but now wished they'd voted remain. Clearly, this is not true.

WTF??
You gave the evidence that it is true yourself!!?

[chris watton]

walm said:

chris watton said:

Oh look, according to this Ipsos MORI poll only 3% of Leavers regret their votes.

chris watton said:

The media is trying to make it look as though there are tens of thousands who voted leave but now wished they'd voted remain. Clearly, this is not true.

WTF??
You gave the evidence that it is true yourself!!?

Sorry, I missed out the word 'more'. Let me correct my original sentence:

The media is trying to make it look as though there are tens of thousands more who voted leave but now wished they'd voted remain. Clearly, this is not true.

[walm]

chris watton said:

walm said:

chris watton said:

Oh look, according to this Ipsos MORI poll only 3% of Leavers regret their votes.

chris watton said:

The media is trying to make it look as though there are tens of thousands who voted leave but now wished they'd voted remain. Clearly, this is not true.

WTF??
You gave the evidence that it is true yourself!!?

Sorry, I missed out the word 'more'. Let me correct my original sentence:

The media is trying to make it look as though there are tens of thousands more who voted leave but now wished they'd voted remain. Clearly, this is not true.

Ah - sorry. I see. Absolutely. Regret on both sides, for sure.

[Ridgemont]

walm said:

chris watton said:

Oh look, according to this Ipsos MORI poll only 3% of Leavers regret their votes.

chris watton said:

The media is trying to make it look as though there are tens of thousands who voted leave but now wished they'd voted remain. Clearly, this is not true.

WTF??
You gave the evidence that it is true yourself!!?

I suspect he is indicating that there is a widespread allegation that Leave voters are more inclined to have regretted their decision:

pace http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...

1 million supposed leavers repentant for example. This is to demonstrate that the vote was flawed.

The ipsos MORI poll suggests that actually a greater % of remain voters regret their decision.

[CaptainSlow]

Disastrous said:

I've just seen and heard so many people who have made their decision on this based on actual lies from the Leave campaign

I've just seen and heard so many people who have made their decision on this based on actual lies from the Remain campaign

[Piersman2]

walm said:

don4l said:

Your post proves my point very nicely. Thank you.

Are David Owen and Nigel Lawson also grade A morons?

Thanks for the BBC link. However, if you don't mind, I will use my own company's accounts to tell me how much EU regulation is costing me.

disastrous, do you now understand where I am coming from? I'm now an old, white, uneducated racist moron.

Oh - I am sorry - YOUR accounts.
Obviously when you said, "I believe EU regulations account for 5% of business costs"... what you really meant is "I have no idea about anyone else but for my business it's 5% therefore my comment is relevant to precisely no one other than me."

There I was thinking you had made a statement that might actually be relevant to the debate for THE WHOLE COUNTRY.
Not just one blinkered individual.

Such a shame that the referendum gave each individual the opportunity to have 1 vote to indicate their personal view on the question posed based on their own experiences and opinions. Would have been much more palatable if people hadn't had the right to vote at all.

[Northern Munkee]

Interesting view of Leave in Scotland. Not mentioned....

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/04/sc...

"Across Scotland, it is estimated that about 30% of SNP voters supported the leave campaign – the largest anti-EU group in the country."

[Disastrous]

CaptainSlow said:

Disastrous said:

I've just seen and heard so many people who have made their decision on this based on actual lies from the Leave campaign

I've just seen and heard so many people who have made their decision on this based on actual lies from the Remain campaign

Ok.

[rscott]

don4l said:

rscott said:

don4l said:

Disastrous said:

I've just seen and heard so many people who have made their decision on this based on actual lies from the Leave campaign (though let's not get that one going again!), fear of 'foreigners', protest at 'arrogant' Tories etc. that I fear that many have made this decision for the wrong reasons. That scares me a bit. Not to mention halfwits like don4l who seem to base their entire political personae on the notion of 'winding up lefties' which is a terrifyingly childish way to make big decisions and debate issues.

I've explained my reasons for voting Leave many times. They are primarily economic, and based on the fact that I believe that EU Regulations account for 5% of business costs.

However, when I have tried to discuss these issues, I get told that I am an old, white, uneducated racist who wants to kick all the foreigners out. You have actually done it again just above.

Earlier today, I mentioned that I do not feel it is necessary to negotiate a trade deal with the EU. My point was dismissed as a "typical Kipper" viewpoint. Not even the faintest effort to consider the benefits or costs of any deal.

It's odd - you claim that you believe EU Regulations account for 5% of business costs, yet when asked for specific examples of EU Regulations which have caused problems (over in the other thread), you've not been able to give a single example which affects your business.
The only one you've mentioned was RoHS, variants of which are being implemented in many non-EU countries anyway.

I don't know which thread you mean. There are so many that it is difficult to keep up.

However, one of the clearest examples are thee WEEE regulations. Essentially, I send £1000.00 a year so that I can dispose of equipment when it reaches end of life. To date, I have sent off £14,000, but no customer has ever sent any equipment back to us. I might as well have flushed the money down the toilet.

This thread - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... .

So you send £1000 off a year and that's the biggest expense you have due to EU regulations?

Doesn't that fund contribute toward recycling costs of all electrical equipment , whether returned to you or elsewhere?

[walm]

Piersman2 said:

Such a shame that the referendum gave each individual the opportunity to have 1 vote to indicate their personal view on the question posed based on their own experiences and opinions. Would have been much more palatable if people hadn't had the right to vote at all.

Believe it or not, I am a big fan of democracy. Remain lost and as a nation we are having to deal with that (GBP making 30 year lows as we speak, for example).
But people making incredibly misleading comments like "EU regulations account for 5% of business costs" should be called to account.

If don said, "I voted exit because it will save me 5% of my costs" then that is absolutely fair enough and honest.
Selfish obviously, but honest.

Putting it the way he did makes it look like he was doing us all a favour!!

[WCZ]

andyps said:

Why would it be any different for a remainer to regret their vote to a leaver? People change their minds, sometimes just because they do, sometimes because they get more information. Both these apply to people who voted for either option.

It makes no sense to regret their vote because the outcome was to leave, if they could go back in time and switch their vote to leave it wouldn't have made any difference.

[Jinx]

walm said:

GBP making 30 year lows as we speak, for example

Rather good news for our export traders.

[andyps]

WCZ said:

andyps said:

Why would it be any different for a remainer to regret their vote to a leaver? People change their minds, sometimes just because they do, sometimes because they get more information. Both these apply to people who voted for either option.

It makes no sense to regret their vote because the outcome was to leave, if they could go back in time and switch their vote to leave it wouldn't have made any difference.

They can regret not making it a larger majority can't they? It probably comes down to semantics of the word regret. Maybe they regret voting the same way as those who are trying to reject the democratic outcome which was explained pretty clearly to all eligible to vote.

[Welshbeef]

Jinx said:

walm said:

GBP making 30 year lows as we speak, for example

Rather good news for our export traders.

Where will this go next?

Cameron shouldn't have stepped down