Lots of angry people today.

[SpeckledJim]

jamoor said:

WinstonWolf said:

Things would not have remained the same if we'd voted for remain, we would have moved further towards European integration.

And we already know that don't we?

We literally have zero idea about "Out" and nor do any of the protagonists of this movement, that's why they're so silent.

That's because it suited the government and the EU very well to have no plan.

If there was a plan, then:

A) there was tacit admission that the plan might be needed

and

B) leavers and remainers would both know more about the situation, and could make a better-informed decision.


No Plan isn't an accident - it was designed to be that way by the incumbent powers.

[blueg33]

SpeckledJim said:

That's because investors would rather have £50 than an amount chosen at random between £0 and £100. The problem is not the problem. The uncertainty about the problem is the problem.

In time there will be less uncertainty. And so less problem.

Patience, Iago!

The problem with patience is that it doesn't pay the bills or get the investment into imminent projects.

Uncertainty is terrible for business (apart from bookies)

[wisbech]

German MP Michael Fuchs, a senior ally of Chancellor Angela Merkel, spoke to the Today programme a short time ago.

With a chuckle, he made it clear things were going to have to change.

"Either you are in a club or you are out of a club. If you are in a club you have to follow the rules. If you are out of the club, there will be different rules," he said.

Asked if it would be possible for the UK to retain access to the single market, he replied: "It will be possible, of course, but not for free.

"You have to see with Norway, with Switzerland, you have to pay a certain fee. And the per capita fee of Norway is exactly the same as what Britain is now paying into the EU. So there won't be any savings."

Well, at least he isn't angry and is chuckling...

[CaptainSlow]

How much are we going to charge Germany to access our markets?

[fido]

jamoor said:

Voting in - everyone knows exactly what is on offer and what happens.

Rubbish. My parents voted No in 1975 to the Common Market. It has now become a political union. How do you know how the EU will evolve, even over the next year? Nothing is certain, well except for death and taxes.

[ZesPak]

CaptainSlow said:

How much are we going to charge Germany to access our markets?

Just make sure it doesn't become uneconomical to them to make their cars RHD.

[lostkiwi]

pgh said:

wisbech said:

German MP Michael Fuchs, a senior ally of Chancellor Angela Merkel, spoke to the Today programme a short time ago.


"You have to see with Norway, with Switzerland, you have to pay a certain fee. And the per capita fee of Norway is exactly the same as what Britain is now paying into the EU. So there won't be any savings."

I take it he forgot to mention what the Canadians are paying per-capita for access to the EU market (without freedom of movement). Funny that

That agreement is unsigned and has not been approved by the EU member states.

[S. Gonzales Esq.]

Sump said:

So is this a good sumamry?

...

A worrying portion of brexiters regret their deciscion.

...

That depends how easily worried you are.

The Today Programme this morning quoted a survey indicating that 7% of Leave voters and 4% of Remain voters would change sides. A net 3% change would give Leave a 400k majority.

[Pan Pan Pan]

fido said:

jamoor said:

Voting in - everyone knows exactly what is on offer and what happens.

Rubbish. My parents voted No in 1975 to the Common Market. It has now become a political union. How do you know how the EU will evolve, even over the next year? Nothing is certain, well except for death and taxes.

Not to mention what will happen when the basket case economies, which even under its own rules the EU should not have admitted in the first place, start looking for multi billion pound bailouts. and with the UK being the second greatest net contributor of funds INTO EU coffers no longer being there, where will the EU get the money needed for this from?

[MarshPhantom]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Brits don't quit Cameron taunted us, so clearly he is no Brit - he certainly doesn't have their best interests at heart.

Indeed. What was the fool thinking when he agreed to the referendum?

[SpeckledJim]

blueg33 said:

SpeckledJim said:

That's because investors would rather have £50 than an amount chosen at random between £0 and £100. The problem is not the problem. The uncertainty about the problem is the problem.

In time there will be less uncertainty. And so less problem.

Patience, Iago!

The problem with patience is that it doesn't pay the bills or get the investment into imminent projects.

Uncertainty is terrible for business (apart from bookies)

Quite agree, but there's the potential for a terrific omelette from all these broken eggs.

Or maybe there isn't, but we won't know for a while, and this current upheaval was a 'known known' (sorry Donald) before the referendum took place.

Grin-and-bear-it time.

One thing I do agree with the EU on is that 3-4 months wait for the new PM is not a good idea. Surely a new PM could be in place within a month?

[Jinx]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

That depends how easily worried you are.

The Today Programme this morning quoted a survey indicating that 7% of Leave voters and 4% of Remain voters would change sides. A net 3% change would give Leave a 400k majority.

Because surveys and polls have been so reliable.......

[Pan Pan Pan]

MarshPhantom said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

Brits don't quit Cameron taunted us, so clearly he is no Brit - he certainly doesn't have their best interests at heart.

Indeed. What was the fool thinking when he agreed to the referendum?

If being in the EU had actually been any good for the UK, we would not even have needed a referendum. Everyone would have wanted to stay being in the EU.
But it just never turned out that way.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Jinx said:

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

That depends how easily worried you are.

The Today Programme this morning quoted a survey indicating that 7% of Leave voters and 4% of Remain voters would change sides. A net 3% change would give Leave a 400k majority.

Because surveys and polls have been so reliable.......

Wonder what the remainers would have done if we did have a 2nd referendum, and it came out even more strongly in favour of leave? Best of 3? best of 5?

[ZesPak]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

That depends how easily worried you are.

The Today Programme this morning quoted a survey indicating that 7% of Leave voters and 4% of Remain voters would change sides. A net 3% change would give Leave a 400k majority.

Your maths are off I think.

You've got 4% of the remain, which is less than half of the voters, and 7% of leave voters, which is little more than half.
So it would net on a 1,5% total shift.

[lostkiwi]

pgh said:

lostkiwi said:

That agreement is unsigned and has not been approved by the EU member states.

So it's a fresh example of what is possible in negotiating with the current day EU - perfect.

Not until its all signed. At the moment its still a possibility. Until the European parliament ratify it is worth nothing.
It also took the Canadians 7 years to get to this point. We don't have 7 years before article 50 kicks in.

[Gandahar]

Amazingly with this referendum we will be making Conservatives, Labour and the EU look at reform

From the EU itself

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubR...

"Stresses that the current challenges require reflection on the future of the EU: there is a
need to reform the Union and make it better and more democratic"

You don't say ! Shame it took a political tsunami for it to dawn....

[SeeFive]

Gandahar said:

Amazingly with this referendum we will be making Conservatives, Labour and the look at reform

From the EU itself

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubR...

Stresses that the current challenges require reflection on the future of the EU: there is a
need to reform the Union and make it better and more democratic

You don't say ! Shame it took a political tsunami for it to dawn....

No no no, you're not listening. The EU would be saying all of that and more if we had voted to remain. They are big cuddly benefactors just looking to help everyone, honest - ask any remainer.

[Strocky]

don4l said:

Fantastic news for British exporters.

And as the UK is a net importer, how does that work?

[sealtt]

ZesPak said:

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

That depends how easily worried you are.

The Today Programme this morning quoted a survey indicating that 7% of Leave voters and 4% of Remain voters would change sides. A net 3% change would give Leave a 400k majority.

Your maths are off I think.

You've got 4% of the remain, which is less than half of the voters, and 7% of leave voters, which is little more than half.
So it would net on a 1,5% total shift.

16,141,241 remain
17,410,742 leave

4% of remain = 645,650
7% of leave = 1,218,752

remain + 7% of leave - 4% of remain = 16,714,343
leave + 4% of remain - 7% of leave = 16,837,640

remain now 16,714,343 from 16,141,241 = +573,102 = +3.55% change
leave now 16,837,640 from 17,410,742 = -573,102 = -3.29% change

In terms of totals.

Total voters = 33,551,983
Total voters changing opinions according to poll = 1,864,402 = 5.6%
Total net shift to remain = 1.7%

According to the poll, Leave would still win with a majority of 123,296 people = 0.37% of voters, i.e. a 50.18% to 49.82% win for Leave.

Edited by sealtt on Monday 27th June 15:45