Lots of angry people today.

[kurt535]

bmw535i said:

kurt535 said:

no idea. i did my own financial research leading up to the vote. i concluded remain win meant id lose out on a 500 point rally, can handle that; double b*m f**k if leave vote won via devaluing currency and ftse 250 crapping out.

i concluded FTSE250 was more exposed than the 100 and took my pension money out of it a few months ago. currently in jap bonds and it will stay there.

I think you know full well that I am talking about post referendum scaremongering headlines. You know, ones going on about the FTSE 100 falling etc and saying the economy had crashed as a result.

Sorry sir, but i've avoided headlines to stay pragmatic in my decisions.

Im just looking at my trading platform for the £ VS various other currencies. I don't see politician speeches but traders, hedge funds, pension funds reducing their risk to our currency. FTSE 100 is great right now but would i buy it? naw. ill leave that to someone far more knowledgable who has a pair of titaniums.

[Mr Whippy]

mph1977 said:

Mr Whippy said:

crankedup said:

Mr Whippy said:

gooner1 said:

Whoozit said:

Sorry, I can't let that one slide. I spent chunks of the past 3 years raising capital for the Greek banks. The problems of Greece were caused by the Greeks economical with the truth on their national statistics in order to squeak over the bar for EU membership. Taxation didn't keep up with spending promises, especially in the state/pensions sectors let alone economic development, due to Greeks treating underreporting their income as a national sport. The moment a crisis hits and incomes naturally reduce, non-performing loans across the banks ramped up massively simultaneous with the govt having its cheque book taken away by Europe and no meaningful political will to increase taxes and reduce public spending.

Yes, it's a horrible scenario and yes, ordinary people are suffering. That's what happens in mismanaged economies.

In none of this were the bankers primarily to blame. Possibly too eager to extend loans for expensive property in a low interest rate environment. That was never a Greek-specific failing. And the moment banks try to be more credit conscious, the politicians scream and shout.

I knew that, you know that, so why the hell did the E.U auditors, who presumably ran a cursory eye over Greek accounts, not know that.

They probably did, but are complicit in the need to keep the Euro alive at all costs, including huge costs to the Greek people.

So now I have to ask, if Greece were really naughty, why are Italy and Spain in the same boat?

Don't tell me they were cooking their books too, but no one noticed? Especially not Italy which Draghi should know well?


However you cut it a line has to be drawn somewhere, where the few lose out for the benefit of the many. Where will that line be?

It's Italy's turn next so lets sit back and watch the fireworks... I think the EZ can is starting to get too heavy to keep on being kicked!

Dave

The EU hasn't signed off its own books for years, hardly confidence inspiring! Thankfully we are now out and at least we can be sure that our Chancellor can be replaced if our books go awry.

It doesn't give you much faith does it.

not that old chestnut

https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-b...

Still error prone though.

I also assume that Greece, Italy and Spain, and the PIIGS generally, are all in top financial order in the EU's opinion... and if they're not, it's because of shenanigans with the domestic banks/accountants being dodgy, no EU institution responsibility?

[gooner1]

Mr Whippy said:

Still error prone though.

I also assume that Greece, Italy and Spain, and the PIIGS generally, are all in top financial order in the EU's opinion... and if they're not, it's because of shenanigans with the domestic banks/accountants being dodgy, no EU institution responsibility?

Indeed. The link supplied raises as many questions as it answers, imo.

[grumbledoak]

Mr Whippy said:

Still error prone though.

I also assume that Greece, Italy and Spain, and the PIIGS generally, are all in top financial order in the EU's opinion... and if they're not, it's because of shenanigans with the domestic banks/accountants being dodgy, no EU institution responsibility?

I think a better assumption would be that Greece, Italy and Spain, and the PIIGS generally are all technically bankrupt, and that loans will not fix this, and that the EU is in denial.

[joscal]

grumbledoak said:

I think a better assumption would be that Greece, Italy and Spain, and the PIIGS generally are all technically bankrupt, and that loans will not fix this, and that the EU is in denial.

This

[Sam All]

grumbledoak said:

Mr Whippy said:

Still error prone though.

I also assume that Greece, Italy and Spain, and the PIIGS generally, are all in top financial order in the EU's opinion... and if they're not, it's because of shenanigans with the domestic banks/accountants being dodgy, no EU institution responsibility?

I think a better assumption would be that Greece, Italy and Spain, and the PIIGS generally are all technically bankrupt, and that loans will not fix this, and that the EU is in denial.

slaves of the EU/EZ.

[227bhp]

blueg33 said:

blueg33 said:

wc98 said:

blueg33 said:

I like building homes...........

could you get your finger out and start building them a bit quicker then

Sadly because of the vote one provider has pulled out of a 25 year commitment, so that's 250 homes that won't get built over the next 2 years. That's alot of uk sourced products that wont get ordered, stuff like kitchens, lifts, etc

My main investor has pulled out today citing Brexit. That's £200m of funding lost to my business over the next couple of years. So circa 1600 homes for vulnerable people I can't build.

Going back to the thread title, yes I am angry, I fking livid, that investor represents 8 months work.

I'm hoping your anger is aimed at the investors who have pulled out, my thoughts are that it is people like that who are going to cause the problems.
If we all just carried on as normal there would be less of (or no) issues.

[jjlynn27]

227bhp said:

blueg33 said:

blueg33 said:

wc98 said:

blueg33 said:

I like building homes...........

could you get your finger out and start building them a bit quicker then

Sadly because of the vote one provider has pulled out of a 25 year commitment, so that's 250 homes that won't get built over the next 2 years. That's alot of uk sourced products that wont get ordered, stuff like kitchens, lifts, etc

My main investor has pulled out today citing Brexit. That's £200m of funding lost to my business over the next couple of years. So circa 1600 homes for vulnerable people I can't build.

Going back to the thread title, yes I am angry, I fking livid, that investor represents 8 months work.

I'm hoping your anger is aimed at the investors who have pulled out, my thoughts are that it is people like that who are going to cause the problems.
If we all just carried on as normal there would be less of (or no) issues.

Why would investor carry on as normal? What an odd thing to say. £200m is a lot of money, and, to me at least, it is quite prudent to wait for the dust to settle. Investors are not going to be appeased with 'Ah don't worry, everything will be all right, we just need to work a bit harder'.

[don4l]

jjlynn27 said:

Why would investor carry on as normal? What an odd thing to say. £200m is a lot of money, and, to me at least, it is quite prudent to wait for the dust to settle. Investors are not going to be appeased with 'Ah don't worry, everything will be all right, we just need to work a bit harder'.

On that basis nobody would ever invest in anything.

Savvy investors have made a killing over the last week, while the bedwetters have taken a hammering.

Last Friday morning, on here, I advised people to buy shares. The stock market has risen more than 10% since then. That is a cracking performance.

On top of that, most FTSE100 companies are paying a dividend of 4.5 - 5% at the moment. So, even if the market doesn't rise over the coming 12 months, people stand to get a 15% return over the year.

We have a housing shortage, and a growing population. Only a fool would pull out of a housing development at the moment.

House prices do not drop when demand is greater than supply.

[Tuna]

grumbledoak said:

I think a better assumption would be that Greece, Italy and Spain, and the PIIGS generally are all technically bankrupt, and that loans will not fix this, and that the EU is in denial.

Talking to a Portuguese guy, yes. But the interesting thing is that he believes most of the fraud hiding the depth of the problem is caused by Portuguese politicians. Though a lot of it is 'enabled' by the EU (massive grants going into black holes and dodgy projects), he looks to the EU powers to stop the corruption. The same with Italy - they don't trust their own politicians, so they'd rather the central government took over.

[Monkeylegend]

Tuna said:

Talking to a Portuguese guy, yes. But the interesting thing is that he believes most of the fraud hiding the depth of the problem is caused by Portuguese politicians. Though a lot of it is 'enabled' by the EU (massive grants going into black holes and dodgy projects), he looks to the EU powers to stop the corruption. The same with Italy - they don't trust their own politicians, so they'd rather the central government took over.

Strange really, why anybody would trust a central EU government more than their own is beyond me, neither are trustworthy.

[blueg33]

don4l said:

jjlynn27 said:

Why would investor carry on as normal? What an odd thing to say. £200m is a lot of money, and, to me at least, it is quite prudent to wait for the dust to settle. Investors are not going to be appeased with 'Ah don't worry, everything will be all right, we just need to work a bit harder'.

On that basis nobody would ever invest in anything.

Savvy investors have made a killing over the last week, while the bedwetters have taken a hammering.

Last Friday morning, on here, I advised people to buy shares. The stock market has risen more than 10% since then. That is a cracking performance.

On top of that, most FTSE100 companies are paying a dividend of 4.5 - 5% at the moment. So, even if the market doesn't rise over the coming 12 months, people stand to get a 15% return over the year.

We have a housing shortage, and a growing population. Only a fool would pull out of a housing development at the moment.

House prices do not drop when demand is greater than supply.

Pension funds are cautious as they need a stable return. I can find other investors buy yields are so much higher. This makes the deals unaffordable

[mph1977]

Mr Whippy said:

Still error prone though.

I also assume that Greece, Italy and Spain, and the PIIGS generally, are all in top financial order in the EU's opinion... and if they're not, it's because of shenanigans with the domestic banks/accountants being dodgy, no EU institution responsibility?

and the errors in terms of misallocation - usually down to national governments it seems ... also it;s stuff like the vanity projects that then don't deliver ... ( and the UK is not immune to that e.g. Sheffield Airport ...and ongoing debate over Doncaster Sheffield Sherwood Forest Robin Hood Little John RAF Finningley airport )

[crankedup]

Driving through Spain is a real pleasure, mile after mile of almost completely deserted beautiful new roads. At one stage I did wander if I had somehow managed to drive onto one of these roads before it has been official opened to traffic,. New roads cut through hillsides and some dual carriageways. What is the cost per mile for new roads? No doubt this is all EU funded, whilst dear loll Blighty makes do with roads unfit for cart horses.

[jjlynn27]

crankedup said:

Driving through Spain is a real pleasure, mile after mile of almost completely deserted beautiful new roads. At one stage I did wander if I had somehow managed to drive onto one of these roads before it has been official opened to traffic,. New roads cut through hillsides and some dual carriageways. What is the cost per mile for new roads? No doubt this is all EU funded, whilst dear loll Blighty makes do with roads unfit for cart horses.

Genuine question. Why do you think that is? How come that Spanish can get these new roads and we can't? Do you have any explanation for that at all?

[TTwiggy]

crankedup said:

Driving through Spain is a real pleasure, mile after mile of almost completely deserted beautiful new roads. At one stage I did wander if I had somehow managed to drive onto one of these roads before it has been official opened to traffic,. New roads cut through hillsides and some dual carriageways. What is the cost per mile for new roads? No doubt this is all EU funded, whilst dear loll Blighty makes do with roads unfit for cart horses.

I've no doubt they were EU funded, but ask yourself how those roads might look after a few British winters, with British-levels of traffic and road hauliage using them. And then ask yourself how many 'nimby' petitions would have been rallied behind to stop them being built in the first place.

[London424]

jjlynn27 said:

crankedup said:

Driving through Spain is a real pleasure, mile after mile of almost completely deserted beautiful new roads. At one stage I did wander if I had somehow managed to drive onto one of these roads before it has been official opened to traffic,. New roads cut through hillsides and some dual carriageways. What is the cost per mile for new roads? No doubt this is all EU funded, whilst dear loll Blighty makes do with roads unfit for cart horses.

Genuine question. Why do you think that is? How come that Spanish can get these new roads and we can't? Do you have any explanation for that at all?

The cycnic in me thinks that as Spain is a dedicated 'inner' for the EU and a EURO denominated country they get nice shiny stuff bought for them.

The UK as a 'sort of inner' doesn't get the nice shiny stuff that is obvious to all.

[mph1977]

TTwiggy said:

crankedup said:

Driving through Spain is a real pleasure, mile after mile of almost completely deserted beautiful new roads. At one stage I did wander if I had somehow managed to drive onto one of these roads before it has been official opened to traffic,. New roads cut through hillsides and some dual carriageways. What is the cost per mile for new roads? No doubt this is all EU funded, whilst dear loll Blighty makes do with roads unfit for cart horses.

I've no doubt they were EU funded, but ask yourself how those roads might look after a few British winters, with British-levels of traffic and road hauliage using them. And then ask yourself how many 'nimby' petitions would have been rallied behind to stop them being built in the first place.

exactly ... but never let facts get in the way of an euro-whinge

[anonymous-user]

I see George Osbourne doesn't seem angry. In fact I'd say he was pretty happy. He's announced that he's abandoning the budget surplus by 2020 idea as a result of the referendum result.

Saved by the bell I'd say - at least it's sort of an excuse that means he can quietly slide away without having to admit failure in a few years.

[mph1977]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

i'm guessing you have missed the EU funding for intrastructure in rehabilitating parts of the UK ...