Lots of angry people today.

[crankedup]

JagLover said:

jjlynn27 said:

Jesus, cheer up. It's not that bad.

On that we agree

We have a chance to change things now.

Indeed we have a golden opportunity for a positive change. Personally I won' t have too much influence on change nor will I see much benifit, being an OAP now (just) the old git with the watch and sickle has his own ideas. Still I voted for change and trust my judgement will have a positive influence on our grandson. Meanwhile I shall keep ticking over on my part time self employment hobby job.

[MarshPhantom]

boxxob said:

WinstonWolf said:

Digga said:

WinstonWolf said:

Digga said:

Would love to see the splits in terms of what degrees were actually held. I can guess.

You're not telling me that people with media studies, dance or art degrees should be calling the shots now, are you?

As far as I'm able to discern, at least up until Brexit, they were.

Well they're certainly 'in the bubble'...

we can chuckle about at the pointless subjects, the soft subjects, and the made-up degree subjects, but there's also the degrees from dubious locations, and even outright faker'y. Besides, a vote in 2016 matched and correlated with census 2011 data, for somewhere like London, doesn't seem particularly rigorous (like the subjects listed above).

Edited by boxxob on Monday 4th July 16:46

[jjlynn27]

crankedup said:

Indeed we have a golden opportunity for a positive change. Personally I won' t have too much influence on change nor will I see much benifit, being an OAP now (just) the old git with the watch and sickle has his own ideas. Still I voted for change and trust my judgement will have a positive influence on our grandson. Meanwhile I shall keep ticking over on my part time self employment hobby job.

That question has been asked over and over again. Where is that golden opportunity right now? You do realise that saying things like that is just empty rhetoric?

[walm]

crankedup said:

Indeed we have a golden opportunity for a positive change.

What opportunities do we have now that we didn't have before?

[JagLover]

walm said:

Serious question, what does this mean?
What changes are you going to make?
How will you behave differently?

Given the upcoming 2.5yr hiatus I am just not sure what we should be doing!

Well first of all the very shock of the result means a realisation in some quarters that things have to change.

Historically we have done very well in delivering change without either foreign occupation or violent revolution. It has been a matter of making the establishment of the time realise the mood of the people. I think personally that the referendum result may be as influential as the Chartist movement in that regard. To add to that will be a mood of national crises following the short term economic downturn.

Accordingly certain things that would normally be inconceivable such as drastic planning reform or a (even small) re balancing of the tax system away from income toward wealth suddenly become within the range of possible policy outcomes.

If you add to that controlling our borders and only admitting skilled newcomers then we may be able to end the slow drift back to an Edwardian society and rebuild one where the average working man has hope that their living standards will improve generation upon generation.

[blueg33]

crankedup said:

Interesting, Cambridge being just down the road we read and hear about who is doing what in the scientific world, not that I am in anyway involved. I did listen to the commentary regarding the very real concerns regarding funding,post Brexit, and of course the fact that much funding comes from the EU.
Given the Global importance of the research of the various disciplines I would I,aging funding will be maintained through our own Government. Surely any Government will see this as a National priority.
Anyway, the very best of luck to your family in their studies and work.

Thanks.

I think the problem with funding research, is that for many years the UK Government hasn't treated it with the importance it deserves, they seem to rely on others doing the funding. I believe (although I have no data to hand) that many of our best research brains go overseas as funding is so much better.

My eldest was going to read Theoretical Astrophysics, but he looked at the opportunities to take it further as a career and was concerned about the lack of funding available in the UK (even including EU money) and decided that it is underpaid here as a result. He would have to go to Switzerland (CERN), France or the US to earn a salary the reflects the skillset and levels of work that are required.

[walm]

JagLover said:

Well first of all the very shock of the result means a realisation in some quarters that things have to change.

Historically we have done very well in delivering change without either foreign occupation or violent revolution. It has been a matter of making the establishment of the time realise the mood of the people. I think personally that the referendum result may be as influential as the Chartist movement in that regard. To add to that will be a mood of national crises following the short term economic downturn.

Accordingly certain things that would normally be inconceivable such as drastic planning reform or a (even small) re balancing of the tax system away from income toward wealth suddenly become within the range of possible policy outcomes.

If you add to that controlling our borders and only admitting skilled newcomers then we may be able to end the slow drift back to an Edwardian society and rebuild one where the average working man has hope that their living standards will improve generation upon generation.

Good answer.
Even as a Remainer I have to say that I fervently hope that at least some of these come to pass.

I guess I am very concerned about a "plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose" type problem...

[AJS-]

walm said:

I guess I am very concerned about a "plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose" type problem...

That is also my main worry, particularly with Theresa May. A fudged deal with some sort of associate status where we are still large contributors, still have unlimited freedom of movement and still have external EU trade policy isn't the answer in my view. Though I can see that it would ease the transition considerably.

I'm of the opinion that the best long term answer is complete separation, with a series of bilateral agreements on visas and trade.

[blueg33]

Rovinghawk said:

blueg33 said:

Rovinghawk said:

blueg33 said:

The majority of the people in the UK did not vote to leave, only the majority of people who actually voted.

Those who chose not to vote indicated that they would accept the view of the majority.

By definition, they didn't indicate anything and I doubt they would rationalise their decision they way you put it

They rather clearly indicated "I'm not bothered". Dispute that.

I don't dispute that at all, its what I was driving at with my comment. The question is whether its not bothered about the EU or not bothered with politics and all the bks from both sides

[230TE]

JagLover said:

Well first of all the very shock of the result means a realisation in some quarters that things have to change.

Historically we have done very well in delivering change without either foreign occupation or violent revolution. It has been a matter of making the establishment of the time realise the mood of the people. I think personally that the referendum result may be as influential as the Chartist movement in that regard. To add to that will be a mood of national crises following the short term economic downturn.

Accordingly certain things that would normally be inconceivable such as drastic planning reform or a (even small) re balancing of the tax system away from income toward wealth suddenly become within the range of possible policy outcomes.

If you add to that controlling our borders and only admitting skilled newcomers then we may be able to end the slow drift back to an Edwardian society and rebuild one where the average working man has hope that their living standards will improve generation upon generation.

Far too measured and optimistic for the current climate. I feel a bit like an outside observer in this whole debate: even on Thursday morning, having considered the arguments on both sides, I had not decided which way to vote. I thought about abstaining, but that would have been a cop-out. So whichever way the vote went I was always going to see a positive side. (And no, I'm not saying how I voted. That's between me and the ballot box. It's nobody else's business.)

My own (probably worthless) opinion is that Remain lost this one through a combination of arrogance and complacency. The latter has gone but the former remains. Yes, the lower educated, lower paid section of the population were more inclined to vote Leave. That's what a couple of decades of being sneered at by the ruling elite (and especially the politicians you thought were on your side) tends to do to you. All those dreadful plebs with their smoking, drinking, procreating and those tacky England flags on their houses instead of the nice blue ones with the yellow stars - how dare they? This has been coming for a long time and we should be glad that so far it has manifested itself at the ballot box rather than via something more direct. As a starting point the Labour party needs to stop playing with its own genitals and start talking to the people it was set up to represent. Maybe they could relocate the party HQ in Barnsley.

[MarshPhantom]

Standard Life suspend trading in UK property fund...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708844

[JagLover]

230TE said:

This has been coming for a long time and we should be glad that so far it has manifested itself at the ballot box rather than via something more direct. As a starting point the Labour party needs to stop playing with its own genitals and start talking to the people it was set up to represent. Maybe they could relocate the party HQ in Barnsley.

It would be a start

[Rovinghawk]

blueg33 said:

The question is whether its not bothered about the EU or not bothered with politics and all the bks from both sides

They don't care (regardless of why) therefore can be disregarded from any counting. It's pointless trying to include them as being on either side.

Omitting those that CBA, the majority chose 'leave'. Simples. Democracy says we get on with leaving, regardless of ungracious comments from the losing side.

[Jockman]

MarshPhantom said:

Standard Life suspend trading in UK property fund...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708844

Normal practice but still interesting to see the motivation of the investors.

[Fittster]

Jockman said:

MarshPhantom said:

Standard Life suspend trading in UK property fund...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708844

Normal practice but still interesting to see the motivation of the investors.

Normal? When was the last time it occurred and how often does it happen?

[mph1977]

Sam All said:

Rovinghawk said:

el stovey said:

Which group would you rather was responsible for making decisions on the future of your country?

In a pure democracy, whichever group is larger.

In reality, I think some of your assumptions are unwarranted.

& amazing that the educated lot could not convince the uneducated ones. Not so smart. The Etonian Chief abused his office, sssumed & tried to scare - he failed. He gets it, now.

except of course the great difficulty in such circumstances is making people understand that they don;t know what they they don;t know on a topic vs the easy slogans of the nationalistic far right and their use of folk devils to explain why the uninformed , under educated and lazy native is reaping what they have sown.

[Jockman]

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

MarshPhantom said:

Standard Life suspend trading in UK property fund...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708844

Normal practice but still interesting to see the motivation of the investors.

Normal? When was the last time it occurred and how often does it happen?

The article states there was a large increase in requests to withdraw funds. It would be normal practice to suspend trading to protect all investors.

This happened regularly when people were leaving with profits funds and MVRs were applied.

[Fittster]

Jockman said:

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

MarshPhantom said:

Standard Life suspend trading in UK property fund...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708844

Normal practice but still interesting to see the motivation of the investors.

Normal? When was the last time it occurred and how often does it happen?

The article states there was a large increase in requests to withdraw funds. It would be normal practice to suspend trading to protect all investors.

This happened regularly when people were leaving with profits funds and MVRs were applied.

So when was the last time there were a large number of investors bailing from this UK property fund? I don't see how you can class this action as normal.

[Jockman]

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

MarshPhantom said:

Standard Life suspend trading in UK property fund...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708844

Normal practice but still interesting to see the motivation of the investors.

Normal? When was the last time it occurred and how often does it happen?

The article states there was a large increase in requests to withdraw funds. It would be normal practice to suspend trading to protect all investors.

This happened regularly when people were leaving with profits funds and MVRs were applied.

So when was the last time there were a large number of investors bailing from this UK property fund? I don't see how you can class this action as normal.

You don't think it's normal for a fund to protect all of its investors?

[230TE]

boxxob said:

A majority turned out to vote (much higher than recent GE trends and much higher than the 1975 EEC vote, which was itself lower than its contemporary GE turnouts). Neither side can claim the cast votes not cast.

Well, 34 million is a statistically valid sample. So probably the safest thing to do is split the non-voters 52/48. As you were, ladies and gentlemen.