Lots of angry people today.

[Fittster]

Jockman said:

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

MarshPhantom said:

Standard Life suspend trading in UK property fund...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708844

Normal practice but still interesting to see the motivation of the investors.

Normal? When was the last time it occurred and how often does it happen?

The article states there was a large increase in requests to withdraw funds. It would be normal practice to suspend trading to protect all investors.

This happened regularly when people were leaving with profits funds and MVRs were applied.

So when was the last time there were a large number of investors bailing from this UK property fund? I don't see how you can class this action as normal.

You don't think it's normal for a fund to protect all of its investors?

I don't think it's normal for a fund to suspend withdrawals. Standard Life are saying their actions are due to 'exceptional market circumstances', not due to 'normal market circumstances'.

Do you think it's normal for this fund to prevent investors with drawing their funds?

[walm]

Fittster said:

So when was the last time there were a large number of investors bailing from this UK property fund? I don't see how you can class this action as normal.

It's standard practice to "gate" a fund like this. (i.e. under these circumstances.)
That's the normal bit.

Actually having to do it is far from normal. (i.e. these are not normal circumstances.)

[Jockman]

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

MarshPhantom said:

Standard Life suspend trading in UK property fund...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708844

Normal practice but still interesting to see the motivation of the investors.

Normal? When was the last time it occurred and how often does it happen?

The article states there was a large increase in requests to withdraw funds. It would be normal practice to suspend trading to protect all investors.

This happened regularly when people were leaving with profits funds and MVRs were applied.

So when was the last time there were a large number of investors bailing from this UK property fund? I don't see how you can class this action as normal.

You don't think it's normal for a fund to protect all of its investors?

I don't think it's normal for a fund to suspend withdrawals. Standard Life are saying their actions are due to 'exceptional market circumstances', not due to 'normal market circumstances'.

Do you think it's normal for this fund to prevent investors with drawing their funds?

See walm's post.

In these circumstances their reaction is completely normal.

They aren't preventing people withdrawing funds, they are simply placing conditions on it.

[maffski]

walm said:

Serious question, what does this mean?
What changes are you going to make?
How will you behave differently?

Given the upcoming 2.5yr hiatus I am just not sure what we should be doing!

The hiatus is a chance to get started - for example we could just make an open offer to every country in the world regarding trade - bilateral free trade in goods, services and capital (baring issues of national security). We can't enact agreements and we possibly can't even sign them, but we can talk and get them ready.

I'd put together a plan to phase out agricultural subsidies (not possible in the EU) - for example New Zealand used to have subsidies accounting for about a third of agricultural revenue - they phased them out and now their farms are profitable and they don't want them back (pdf)

Then I'd be looking at which laws and regulations and be simplified or removed - reducing the administrative burden and freeing room for innovation. Again, EU originated rules can't be removed before we exit but they can be discussed and actions planned.

I'd be looking at the way we handle green/energy issues, esp. with regards to competitiveness and our energy generation shortfall (CCGT plants are fast to build, cheap to operate and greener than the old coal plants).

Plus there's the issues of the financial services passport and common market - so far all I've seen is knee jerk reactions that we must keep them regardless of the cost. But a clear analysis has to be done, and the more agreements in principle we have we other countries the stronger our negotiating position is.

That should keep us busy for the first month.

The we can look at fishing policies and regulation harmonisation - for example just declare JDM cars are legal for the UK (in the same way as EU type approval) - that will make the GTR and NSX cheaper.

[walm]

Jockman said:

See walm's post.

In these circumstances their reaction is completely normal.

They aren't preventing people withdrawing funds, they are simply placing conditions on it.

They are pretty stringent conditions though, I think!

Mostly because of this, "The £2.9bn commercial property fund will need to sell real estate to raise cash before any money can be redeemed."

So they have done this:
"Investors in the fund will be unable to redeem their holding for at least 28 days. The asset manager said the suspension on the fund’s trading will end “as soon as practicable”, and will be reviewed every 28 days."

Ouch.
Glad I don't have to mark that one to market!

[Fittster]

Jockman said:

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

MarshPhantom said:

Standard Life suspend trading in UK property fund...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708844

Normal practice but still interesting to see the motivation of the investors.

Normal? When was the last time it occurred and how often does it happen?

The article states there was a large increase in requests to withdraw funds. It would be normal practice to suspend trading to protect all investors.

This happened regularly when people were leaving with profits funds and MVRs were applied.

So when was the last time there were a large number of investors bailing from this UK property fund? I don't see how you can class this action as normal.

You don't think it's normal for a fund to protect all of its investors?

I don't think it's normal for a fund to suspend withdrawals. Standard Life are saying their actions are due to 'exceptional market circumstances', not due to 'normal market circumstances'.

Do you think it's normal for this fund to prevent investors with drawing their funds?

See walm's post.

In these circumstances their reaction is completely normal.

They aren't preventing people withdrawing funds, they are simply placing conditions on it.

An analogy would be to say it's normal for a fire alarm to make a loud noise. It's only normal if the house is on fire.

What conditions are these?

"Standard Life has been forced to stop retail investors selling out of one of the UK’s largest property funds after rapid cash outflows were sparked by fears over falling real estate values in the week after the Brexit vote."

If you can't sell out how do you get your money out?

[Jockman]

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

Fittster said:

Jockman said:

MarshPhantom said:

Standard Life suspend trading in UK property fund...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708844

Normal practice but still interesting to see the motivation of the investors.

Normal? When was the last time it occurred and how often does it happen?

The article states there was a large increase in requests to withdraw funds. It would be normal practice to suspend trading to protect all investors.

This happened regularly when people were leaving with profits funds and MVRs were applied.

So when was the last time there were a large number of investors bailing from this UK property fund? I don't see how you can class this action as normal.

You don't think it's normal for a fund to protect all of its investors?

I don't think it's normal for a fund to suspend withdrawals. Standard Life are saying their actions are due to 'exceptional market circumstances', not due to 'normal market circumstances'.

Do you think it's normal for this fund to prevent investors with drawing their funds?

See walm's post.

In these circumstances their reaction is completely normal.

They aren't preventing people withdrawing funds, they are simply placing conditions on it.

An analogy would be to say it's normal for a fire alarm to make a loud noise. It's only normal if the house is on fire.

What conditions are these?

"Standard Life has been forced to stop retail investors selling out of one of the UK’s largest property funds after rapid cash outflows were sparked by fears over falling real estate values in the week after the Brexit vote."

If you can't sell out how do you get your money out?

If you want to panic, be my guest.

[walm]

Fittster said:

An analogy would be to say it's normal for a fire alarm to make a loud noise. It's only normal if the house is on fire.

What conditions are these?

"Standard Life has been forced to stop retail investors selling out of one of the UK’s largest property funds after rapid cash outflows were sparked by fears over falling real estate values in the week after the Brexit vote."

If you can't sell out how do you get your money out?

Good analogy and you can't.
Arguably you might be able to find a total muppet off exchange to buy your holdings but not very likely and if you did it would be at a HUGE discount to the last printed price.

[230TE]

I'll buy. We'll still have property shortages a month from now. Oh wait, I don't actually have any money

[blueg33]

As I said earlier, we started to see real estate investors pull out or go on hold from Friday last week.

This could cause a major crisis in UK property development. Housebuilder shares took a hit, but the Standard Life type investor is looking more at quasi government income strip, so expect to see issues with funding infrastructure like health care, fire stations, local government building, affordable housing, libraries, schools. Possibly also roads, energy infrastructure. All those are usually paid for by real estate investment funds

[Rovinghawk]

boxxob said:

What most people understand is that 48 is less than 52

Many here don't understand that.

[rb5er]

jjlynn27 said:

How on earth did you read that from the graph? Where did you get 'intelligent and doing well in life' from?

If you read what I posted prior to Walm posting the graph in response, you may understand.

[blueg33]

Rovinghawk said:

boxxob said:

What most people understand is that 48 is less than 52

Many here don't understand that.

Funny old world, the petition to have a new referendum was started before the referendum by an exit supporter who didn't think that 52 was more than 48

[jjlynn27]

walm said:

crankedup said:

Indeed we have a golden opportunity for a positive change.

What opportunities do we have now that we didn't have before?

Don't be so negative you remanian loser, ha ha.
Nigel said that commonwealth countries are staging 'bidding war' to be first to sign new trade agreements with UK.
Must be true.

[Rovinghawk]

blueg33 said:

Funny old world, the petition to have a new referendum was started before the referendum by an exit supporter who didn't think that 52 was more than 48

Let's cut to the chase: leave won, remain lost. Let's move on based on the result.

[crankedup]

jjlynn27 said:

crankedup said:

Indeed we have a golden opportunity for a positive change. Personally I won' t have too much influence on change nor will I see much benifit, being an OAP now (just) the old git with the watch and sickle has his own ideas. Still I voted for change and trust my judgement will have a positive influence on our grandson. Meanwhile I shall keep ticking over on my part time self employment hobby job.

That question has been asked over and over again. Where is that golden opportunity right now? You do realise that saying things like that is just empty rhetoric?

Empty rhetoric, that's one interpretation, Others may hear a positive attitude to an uncertain future, and that's me. Seeking new deals outside of the EU, trusting that we will achieve a half decent trading deal within the EU. Nobody knows and it's all to easy to pose unanswerable questions at this stage of the proceedings.

[crankedup]

walm said:

crankedup said:

Indeed we have a golden opportunity for a positive change.

What opportunities do we have now that we didn't have before?

We are to be unshackled, that in itself will offer alternative opportunities.

[230TE]

jjlynn27 said:

Don't be so negative you remanian loser, ha ha.
Nigel said that commonwealth countries are staging 'bidding war' to be first to sign new trade agreements with UK.
Must be true.

Economic fundamentals are starting to reassert themselves and I'm shorting schadenfreude. It's not as if Lichtenstein just voted to leave. You don't get G8 status just for turning up to assembly.

[Sam All]

crankedup said:

jjlynn27 said:

crankedup said:

Indeed we have a golden opportunity for a positive change. Personally I won' t have too much influence on change nor will I see much benifit, being an OAP now (just) the old git with the watch and sickle has his own ideas. Still I voted for change and trust my judgement will have a positive influence on our grandson. Meanwhile I shall keep ticking over on my part time self employment hobby job.

That question has been asked over and over again. Where is that golden opportunity right now? You do realise that saying things like that is just empty rhetoric?

Empty rhetoric, that's one interpretation, Others may hear a positive attitude to an uncertain future, and that's me. Seeking new deals outside of the EU, trusting that we will achieve a half decent trading deal within the EU. Nobody knows and it's all to easy to pose unanswerable questions at this stage of the proceedings.

So much negativity around simply because the answer was different to what had been assumed. Move on guys.

[jjlynn27]

crankedup said:

jjlynn27 said:

crankedup said:

Indeed we have a golden opportunity for a positive change. Personally I won' t have too much influence on change nor will I see much benifit, being an OAP now (just) the old git with the watch and sickle has his own ideas. Still I voted for change and trust my judgement will have a positive influence on our grandson. Meanwhile I shall keep ticking over on my part time self employment hobby job.

That question has been asked over and over again. Where is that golden opportunity right now? You do realise that saying things like that is just empty rhetoric?

Empty rhetoric, that's one interpretation, Others may hear a positive attitude to an uncertain future, and that's me. Seeking new deals outside of the EU, trusting that we will achieve a half decent trading deal within the EU. Nobody knows and it's all to easy to pose unanswerable questions at this stage of the proceedings.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend, but positive attitude is all well and good when you have a plan of what you want to achieve. Seeking new deals is, imo, another meaningless phrase, we can already trade with everyone, the only thing that can change is under which agreement we'll trade. If you think that individually we can negotiate such better deals that they'll more than offset change from 0 tariff to half-decent trade deal with single market, all the power to you.