Lots of angry people today.
Discussion
don'tbesilly said:
I haven't ignored your last response to the earlier posts,which I'll come back to, but I'm confused by your comments above.
Whilst the cars you've mentioned above may well be produced in large volumes, it doesn't necessarily follow that they are low margin.
Are you suggesting that because a car has a low MRP that it automatically follows that it has a low margin?
Can you explain what point you are trying to get across in your two edited posts above please.
The actual margins are not in the public domain but my mates in the business used to tell me making profits out of car manufacture is usually harder the cheaper the car. Development costs and production investment are considerable no matter the model and profits on various models can be marginal or even non-existent. Whilst the cars you've mentioned above may well be produced in large volumes, it doesn't necessarily follow that they are low margin.
Are you suggesting that because a car has a low MRP that it automatically follows that it has a low margin?
Can you explain what point you are trying to get across in your two edited posts above please.
When you are down at something cheap - like a CityRover, remember them? - its can be difficult to make much money and volume can be critical. You can see how far the accountants go to save pennies on each car to see how tight it can be. You can see penny pinching in the evolution of some BMW models that are clearly about saving money in production rather than making the product better. They don't so this for fun.
That said it is not unusual also for expensive models have so much development cost vs low volume that they are sold at a loss for their "halo" effect on the overall brand.
So there is no hard and fast rule, typically margins could be expected to be higher on an individual Bentley or Maclaren. Then again they have to spend a fortune on marketing to make them desirable, so its all swings and roundabouts.
The bottom line is that none of these are necessarily high margin production activities and are subject to the trading and employment conditions of their origin of manufacture.
Despite all the noise that a 10% tariff can be dwarfed by currency movement - it would nevertheless be a relevant factor to investment decisions by car makers facing a "shall we invest in/out of the EU" question. Enough to tip a decision? I wouldn't bet against it, and wouldn't recommend we take the risk.
///ajd said:
230TE you say I haven't answered your question. But you'll have to spell out which parts as it looks like I have directly responded to several of your claims. I misread your 'clever' reference to only selling a few chairs into the EU only because it was so lame as to be undetectable as a joke. You did try and say we're not in high volume low margin but that's not really the case is it? What would you call a Nissan Qashqai?
The original question was whether we would get a worse/same/better deal with the EU than we have now. Can you given your view on that?
I wasn't so much asking a question as engaging in an ongoing discussion about Britain's prospects (or lack thereof) outside the EU. You may well prefer to restrict that discussion to our trade with EU members, that being the Remain camp's strongest suit, but that is only half the story (actually only 44% of the story, but in a world where 52 is apparently less than 48 that probably isn't important). The original question was whether we would get a worse/same/better deal with the EU than we have now. Can you given your view on that?
Nissan Sunderland is an interesting case: what matters is why they chose to build a plant here in the UK rather than somewhere in mainland Europe where they wouldn't have had the hassle of having to ship stuff in and out by sea. And it's not as if we have the cheapest labour costs in Europe, then or now. So why Britain? Is there some other advantage to doing business here, and will that still apply if / when we are outside the EU (bearing in mind that Sunderland makes Qashqais for all Nissan's markets, not just the EU)? Factor in that almost a quarter of European Qashqai sales are in the UK market and the picture gets more complicated yet.
230TE said:
Nissan Sunderland is an interesting case: what matters is why they chose to build a plant here in the UK rather than somewhere in mainland Europe where they wouldn't have had the hassle of having to ship stuff in and out by sea.
Hassel? If you are exporting all round the worlds thats not a hassel, its the opposite. You want the site to be right next to a big port.s2art said:
230TE said:
Nissan Sunderland is an interesting case: what matters is why they chose to build a plant here in the UK rather than somewhere in mainland Europe where they wouldn't have had the hassle of having to ship stuff in and out by sea.
Hassel? If you are exporting all round the worlds thats not a hassel, its the opposite. You want the site to be right next to a big port.powerstroke said:
s2art said:
230TE said:
Nissan Sunderland is an interesting case: what matters is why they chose to build a plant here in the UK rather than somewhere in mainland Europe where they wouldn't have had the hassle of having to ship stuff in and out by sea.
Hassel? If you are exporting all round the worlds thats not a hassel, its the opposite. You want the site to be right next to a big port.///ajd said:
sidicks said:
blueg33 said:
Except Brexit supporters said the EU wasn't important as a market! Can't have it both ways.
'They' did? When?Several here parroted him accordingly.
t now - I know he has demigod status on here but he makes my flesh crawl.Lucas CAV said:
///ajd said:
sidicks said:
blueg33 said:
Except Brexit supporters said the EU wasn't important as a market! Can't have it both ways.
'They' did? When?Several here parroted him accordingly.
t now - I know he has demigod status on here but he makes my flesh crawl.http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/an...
Anyone who cares to check the facts regarding the UK`s so called `trade' with the EU, rather than just how they think Brexit will affect their niche business, will of course know that the UK has run a trade deficit with the EU for almost the entire 40 years since the UK joined the EEC. This deficit has recently reached record levels.
So how does the EU selling more of its goods and services into the UK, than the UK sells into the EU which it has done for almost the entire UK membership of the EEC/EU help UK PLC?
It is the UK`s trade with countries outside the EU which has helped the UK cope with the losses made for almost 40 years, of being a member of the EU.
So how does the EU selling more of its goods and services into the UK, than the UK sells into the EU which it has done for almost the entire UK membership of the EEC/EU help UK PLC?
It is the UK`s trade with countries outside the EU which has helped the UK cope with the losses made for almost 40 years, of being a member of the EU.
230TE said:
powerstroke said:
s2art said:
230TE said:
Nissan Sunderland is an interesting case: what matters is why they chose to build a plant here in the UK rather than somewhere in mainland Europe where they wouldn't have had the hassle of having to ship stuff in and out by sea.
Hassel? If you are exporting all round the worlds thats not a hassel, its the opposite. You want the site to be right next to a big port.Edited by powerstroke on Monday 11th July 08:23
powerstroke said:
motivated workers...
Nissan are no longer the UK's largest car producer; they've been passed by JLR, but the Sunderland plant is huge - as others here have said, it produces more cares than Italy - and is regularly cited as being the most productive plant in the world (a quick google is all you need to see that).powerstroke said:
230TE said:
powerstroke said:
s2art said:
230TE said:
Nissan Sunderland is an interesting case: what matters is why they chose to build a plant here in the UK rather than somewhere in mainland Europe where they wouldn't have had the hassle of having to ship stuff in and out by sea.
Hassel? If you are exporting all round the worlds thats not a hassel, its the opposite. You want the site to be right next to a big port.Edited by powerstroke on Monday 11th July 08:23
Pan Pan Pan said:
When you are dealing with people who don't care if the UK is making an overall loss when trading with the EU, just as long as `their' bit is making an (overall) tiny profit, the facts that you have presented don't really matter to them.
The UK isn't making a loss trading with the EU, just a trade deficit. Just as I have a trade deficit with Amazon. In itself it isn't an issue.Digga said:
issan are no longer the UK's largest car producer; they've been passed by JLR, but the Sunderland plant is huge - as others here have said, it produces more cares than Italy - and is regularly cited as being the most productive plant in the world (a quick google is all you need to see that).
The Italian bit is not accurate.Pan Pan Pan said:
Anyone who cares to check the facts regarding the UK`s so called `trade' with the EU, rather than just how they think Brexit will affect their niche business, will of course know that the UK has run a trade deficit with the EU for almost the entire 40 years since the UK joined the EEC. This deficit has recently reached record levels.
So how does the EU selling more of its goods and services into the UK, than the UK sells into the EU which it has done for almost the entire UK membership of the EEC/EU help UK PLC?
It is the UK`s trade with countries outside the EU which has helped the UK cope with the losses made for almost 40 years, of being a member of the EU.
It's actually funny how little you understand about things that you post about. Quick hint; trade deficit is not loss. So how does the EU selling more of its goods and services into the UK, than the UK sells into the EU which it has done for almost the entire UK membership of the EEC/EU help UK PLC?
It is the UK`s trade with countries outside the EU which has helped the UK cope with the losses made for almost 40 years, of being a member of the EU.
jjlynn27 said:
Quick hint; trade deficit is not loss.
True. But having a multi billion pound trade deficit with the person you are negotiating with means that he has rather more to lose than you do. Think of it like a dentists chair - - ok, so the dentist has you on your back, your mouth is locked open, and he has pneumatically powered rotational tools poised. You on the other hand can reach out and grab him gently, but firmly by the balls, look him in the eye and give a clear indication that neither of you are going to hurt each other.....
andymadmak said:
jjlynn27 said:
Quick hint; trade deficit is not loss.
True. But having a multi billion pound trade deficit with the person you are negotiating with means that he has rather more to lose than you do. Think of it like a dentists chair - - ok, so the dentist has you on your back, your mouth is locked open, and he has pneumatically powered rotational tools poised. You on the other hand can reach out and grab him gently, but firmly by the balls, look him in the eye and give a clear indication that neither of you are going to hurt each other.....
You are, of course, free to use whatever helps in order to get your head around very simple concepts.
jjlynn27 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Anyone who cares to check the facts regarding the UK`s so called `trade' with the EU, rather than just how they think Brexit will affect their niche business, will of course know that the UK has run a trade deficit with the EU for almost the entire 40 years since the UK joined the EEC. This deficit has recently reached record levels.
So how does the EU selling more of its goods and services into the UK, than the UK sells into the EU which it has done for almost the entire UK membership of the EEC/EU help UK PLC?
It is the UK`s trade with countries outside the EU which has helped the UK cope with the losses made for almost 40 years, of being a member of the EU.
It's actually funny how little you understand about things that you post about. Quick hint; trade deficit is not loss. So how does the EU selling more of its goods and services into the UK, than the UK sells into the EU which it has done for almost the entire UK membership of the EEC/EU help UK PLC?
It is the UK`s trade with countries outside the EU which has helped the UK cope with the losses made for almost 40 years, of being a member of the EU.
If we imported everything we'd have no domestic jobs.
jjlynn27 said:
andymadmak said:
jjlynn27 said:
Quick hint; trade deficit is not loss.
True. But having a multi billion pound trade deficit with the person you are negotiating with means that he has rather more to lose than you do. Think of it like a dentists chair - - ok, so the dentist has you on your back, your mouth is locked open, and he has pneumatically powered rotational tools poised. You on the other hand can reach out and grab him gently, but firmly by the balls, look him in the eye and give a clear indication that neither of you are going to hurt each other.....
You are, of course, free to use whatever helps in order to get your head around very simple concepts.
The 16% is a much larger number and affects real jobs. A better comparison is what the 16% equates to £ shilling pence but that does not suit your defeatist agenda, Last word to you.
jjlynn27 said:
idiotic
Getting bored with the "I" word now, and the closely related "S" word. It can properly be applied to Jeremy Corbyn, but is otherwise unhelpful. Sneering, patronising, condescending... I was firmly on the fence for the referendum and genuinely unable to decide which way to vote right up to the point where I entered the voting booth, but if it were re-run now I'd vote Leave gladly, just to avoid being in the same camp as the Remainers on here.230TE said:
jjlynn27 said:
idiotic
Getting bored with the "I" word now, and the closely related "S" word. It can properly be applied to Jeremy Corbyn, but is otherwise unhelpful. Sneering, patronising, condescending... I was firmly on the fence for the referendum and genuinely unable to decide which way to vote right up to the point where I entered the voting booth, but if it were re-run now I'd vote Leave gladly, just to avoid being in the same camp as the Remainers on here.
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