2nd Referendum please - I don't like how that one panned out

[Mr_B]

JawKnee said:

wc98 said:

JawKnee said:

wc98 said:

JawKnee said:

Farage (and many on here I should add) said he'd push for a second referendum if leave lost by a narrow margin. Why can't the same apply the other way around. Hypocritical much?

he is just as much a clown for stating that as the sore assed losers such as your self . democracy at work chum, get over it, chin up , onwards and upwards etc.

I haven't "stated" that. All I'm highlighting is the ridiculous hypocrisy from the leave side who were already talking about pushing for another referendum before this one had even finished. And now they have the cheek to call other people undemocratic. Hahaha, give me strength.

no, you are highlighting something farage said. farage was not part of the official leave campaign . he was a clown for saying that .

Makes little difference whether he was part of the official leave campaign or not. He said it and many on here backed him up. Those same people are now getting rather tetchy that the other side want to take the same route as they wanted to. Embarrassing and massively hypocritical.

Could you just say when you would like this and if the implementation of Brexit should not take place first to then be voted on ? I'm of the opinion it was settled and that you would need to really give it years.

[anonymous-user]

gadgetmac said:

Yeah and the UK 'needs' the EU. Oh wait a minute.

They'll vote out regardless of all your "they can't afford to" stuff. Just like you've done in fact.

Exactly. If you were voting for Brexit based on economic reasons, you be hard put to find many business leaders ,economists or financial experts to support you, I doubt many people voted to leave based on whether the UK could afford it or not.

I was in favour of leaving but rarely could I find any financial experts that agreed with Brexit. I rationalised this with the fact that they all want stability and staying was the most stable option. In fact I frequently wondered about about my choice because everyone I respected and liked seemed to be in favour of remaining, the people who were in favour of leaving were all the ones who were a bit racist or bigoted, the religious nutters, the thickos and various other small minded people you wouldn't want on your side.

As I said, I was in favour of leaving but think something so important and fundamentally altering of the future of the U.K. should have required a higher percentage leave result to put into place. It's certainly not right that the people of Scotland should be made to leave the EU just because loads of English people wanted out. Governments can't just go with the majority vote on everything. If most of the government and financial institutions were against Brexit, they simply shouldn't have offered a referendum on it. We've now got a government and politicians and financial institutions having to negotiate Brexit when most of them didn't want it based on the wishes of a slim majority of the population.

[All that jazz]

desolate said:

basherX said:

Hub said:

Petition on the gov website up to 1.8m already.

Leave vote last week up to 17.4 million already.


These petulant people insist on being taken seriously when they're too thick (or, rather, self-entitled) to understand the rules of the game. It's no wonder most of our political class treat us all with contempt.

I reckon if they get about 18 million signatures they may have a case.

The official vote on the matter was on Thursday, which incidentally had been advertised for longer than I care to remember. Missed the official vote or couldn't be arsed? Tough titty. Deal with it.

[gadgetmac]

REALIST123 said:

gadgetmac said:

davey68 said:

Voting out of the UK to spite the English would be pretty stupid and I don't think it's realistic. UK leaving the EU isn't even close to being the same (5th largest economy etc)

They won't vote to leave out of spite it'll be because the weight of the arguments will be seen to have changed. 'Not being able to survive' outside of a larger entity is a matter of opinion and the Scots opinion on that will have fundamentally changed now.

On what basis do they think being part of the EU gives a better chance of survival than being part of the UK? And would the EU want another member whose deficit is running at 10% or so of its GDP?

I know the UK has subsidised Scotland but then, they are already part of the UK. Would they be invited to join if they weren't?

You're trying to argue a point that is subjective. Just like the argument for the UK to not leave the EU due to it not being able to survive was/is subjective. You cannot prove that Scotland won't survive - although I don't quite know what 'not surviving' would actually mean, perhaps you can explain. 2 months after voting to leave the UK will Scotland the country explode? Or perhaps sink into the North Sea?

Irrelevant though because they'll vote 'Out' this time regardless. They can and will take their lead from the Out lot in England. It was a close vote last time so when you throw in the sense of betrayal they'll feel over the exit from the EU it's a certainty this time.

You know they too will say that leaving the undemocratic UK (remember they voted to stay in the EU by a big margin) will present them with a golden age of prosperity and opportunity. The hypocrisy from the English over this will be something to behold as is starting to be shown here.

[MYOB]

Hub said:

Petition on the gov website up to 1.8m already.

I would imagine the majority of these signatories were not even eligible to vote in the referendum! So why should parliament give serious consideration to this?

[ThunderSpook]

The reality is the population in general are not qualified to make decisions like this. That's why we have politicians, they understand more about the realities of both arguments than we could ever know.

Out of the people I know who voted leave, one did it because he was upset at losing feet and inches, and the other did it because he was 'proud to be British'. As I said, not qualified.

[All that jazz]

Steve H said:

All that jazz said:

My predictions :

- Article 50 won't happen.
- Vote of no confidence in the government will happen.
- Election will be called with Labour and Con both supporting EU in.
- One or the other of them will predictably win so we'll be back in the EU.
- Much toy throwing and dummy spitting will happen.
- The EU Party Bus will continue with the "unification process" and ultimately nothing will have changed.

In these circumstance the UKIP vote would be absolutely huge.

Nah. UKIP is far too right-wing for most people, plus you still have the problem of the "my dad and grandfather have always voted Labour so of course I will always vote labour too" brigade. It would still either be Lab or Con that would win a GE, primarily because of the way the GE voting works with "safe seat" areas (I forget the official term for it).

[Einion Yrth]

MYOB said:

why should parliament give serious consideration to this?

Most of them didn't want a leave vote, either?

[All that jazz]

MYOB said:

Hub said:

Petition on the gov website up to 1.8m already.

I would imagine the majority of these signatories were not even eligible to vote in the referendum! So why should parliament give serious consideration to this?

Good point!

[sidicks]

gadgetmac said:

You're trying to argue a point that is subjective. Just like the argument for the UK to not leave the EU due to it not being able to survive was/is subjective. You cannot prove that Scotland won't survive - although I don't quite know what 'not surviving' would actually mean, perhaps you can explain. 2 months after voting to leave the UK will Scotland the country explode? Or perhaps sink into the North Sea?

Irrelevant though because they'll vote 'Out' this time regardless. They can and will take their lead from the Out lot in England. It was a close vote last time so when you throw in the sense of betrayal they'll feel over the exit from the EU it's a certainty this time.

Anyone thinks they were 'betrayed' is a moron.

gadgetmac said:

You know they too will say that leaving the undemocratic UK (remember they voted to stay in the EU by a big margin) will present them with a golden age of prosperity and opportunity. The hypocrisy from the English over this will be something to behold as is starting to be shown here.

It would appear they don't understand democracy either!

[anonymous-user]

MYOB said:

Hub said:

Petition on the gov website up to 1.8m already.

I would imagine the majority of these signatories were not even eligible to vote in the referendum! So why should parliament give serious consideration to this?

Because they're now faced with negotiating leaving the EU when most of them wanted to stay. Perhaps it will influence the kind of agreement the UK can get with the EU.

If 90% wanted Brexit then the UK would just get on with it. If it's a small % in favour and millions sign his petition, then perhaps we'll end up with some kind of Brexit lite?

[All that jazz]

ThunderSpook said:

The reality is the population in general are not qualified to make decisions like this. That's why we have politicians, they understand more about the realities of both arguments than we could ever know.

Out of the people I know who voted leave, one did it because he was upset at losing feet and inches, and the other did it because he was 'proud to be British'. As I said, not qualified.

The same argument can equally be applied to the 'remain' lot as well. Most of them were kids with no real world life experience and don't understand what exactly they're voting for. All their mates voted the same because, well, peer pressure and that's the cool thing to do, right?

[davey68]

But you need to satisfy the criteria to join the EU! Scotland standing alone does not. I think you are getting emotional about Scottish independance and I understand that. But when the cold facts come to light (no central bank, financial deficit) people will think twice about Scotland going it alone and hoping to be allowed into the EU and eurozone. If I'm wrong then fair play, I support democracy and although I'd hate Scotland to leave it is their decision at the ballot box.

[sidicks]

el stovey said:

Because they're now faced with negotiating leaving the EU when most of them wanted to stay. Perhaps it will influence the kind of agreement the UK can get with the EU.

If 90% wanted Brexit then the UK would just get on with it. If it's a small % in favour and millions sign his petition, then perhaps we'll end up with some kind of Brexit lite?

(When it has suited them) the EU have been adamant that membership is 'all or nothing'...

[CrutyRammers]

ThunderSpook said:

The reality is the population in general are not qualified to make decisions like this. That's why we have politicians, they understand more about the realities of both arguments than we could ever know.

Out of the people I know who voted leave, one did it because he was upset at losing feet and inches, and the other did it because he was 'proud to be British'. As I said, not qualified.

And I know a remainer who voted in "because I'm not bigot". I also know that politicians offer votes and access for cash and fiddle their expenses. Nobody's qualified as you put it.

Eta and "more then we could ever know"?. Don't make me laugh.

Edited by CrutyRammers on Saturday 25th June 17:33

[longtimeracer]

What's your evidence that people signing the petition weren't eligible - you "imagine" ? - really !!

[JawKnee]

Mr_B said:

JawKnee said:

wc98 said:

JawKnee said:

wc98 said:

JawKnee said:

Farage (and many on here I should add) said he'd push for a second referendum if leave lost by a narrow margin. Why can't the same apply the other way around. Hypocritical much?

he is just as much a clown for stating that as the sore assed losers such as your self . democracy at work chum, get over it, chin up , onwards and upwards etc.

I haven't "stated" that. All I'm highlighting is the ridiculous hypocrisy from the leave side who were already talking about pushing for another referendum before this one had even finished. And now they have the cheek to call other people undemocratic. Hahaha, give me strength.

no, you are highlighting something farage said. farage was not part of the official leave campaign . he was a clown for saying that .

Makes little difference whether he was part of the official leave campaign or not. He said it and many on here backed him up. Those same people are now getting rather tetchy that the other side want to take the same route as they wanted to. Embarrassing and massively hypocritical.

Could you just say when you would like this and if the implementation of Brexit should not take place first to then be voted on ? I'm of the opinion it was settled and that you would need to really give it years.

I'm not saying anything. I'm just pointing out the rank hypocrisy of many on here.

[grumbledoak]

ThunderSpook said:

The reality is the population in general are not qualified to make decisions like this. That's why we have politicians, they understand more about the realities of both arguments than we could ever know.

Well, certainly your own failure to comprehend is manifest. I presume you did the decent thing and abstained?

[CrutyRammers]

davey68 said:

But you need to satisfy the criteria to join the EU! Scotland standing alone does not. I think you are getting emotional about Scottish independance and I understand that. But when the cold facts come to light (no central bank, financial deficit) people will think twice about Scotland going it alone and hoping to be allowed into the EU and eurozone. If I'm wrong then fair play, I support democracy and although I'd hate Scotland to leave it is their decision at the ballot box.

I imagine that sturgeon is going to get told to get back in her box by the eu.she has nothing to offer them, and does not represent an independent state, much as shed like to.

[Puggit]

ThunderSpook said:

The reality is the population in general are not qualified to make decisions like this. That's why we have politicians, they understand more about the realities of both arguments than we could ever know.

Is that why they surrendered sovereignty at Maastricht and Lisbon without asking?

Totally unacceptable.