2nd Referendum please - I don't like how that one panned out

[Robertj21a]

VolvoT5 said:

I'm serious...... I believe there is no bar below which our current politicians will crawl in order to get their own way. They will delay article 50 as long as possible and somehow find a way to ask the public again....... hey presto problem solved. I can just see Theresa May or Nicky Morgan lubing up the UK public ready for the re-entry negotiations now.

Sorry, you're very deluded.

[Zigster]

I can't see another referendum happening, although it amuses me that the petition in question was started some time ago by a Brexiteer who thought we'd have a Remain vote and who is now trying to distance himself from the petition.

What I do think will happen is that we will leave the EU but in a Norway/Switzerland kind of way. So there will be no change in practice except that we will no longer have a place at the table in debating new rules and will simply accept whatever crap the EU comes up with. And that will still be a better outcome than a full-blown, toys out of the pram, exit from the EU which some Brexiteers might have envisaged.

[Diderot]

johnxjsc1985 said:

CrutyRammers said:

Ireland did it. The Netherlands have just done it. Greece did it. It's not exactly unusual in matters eu for a public vote to be overridden.

No chance Westminster will try to over turn the will of 17,000,000 people.

if the Tories elect May, she calls a GE and there you have a de facto 2nd ref before article 50 is invoked. Depends how likely she or an remainer is to be elected.

[zarjaz1991]

Diderot said:

if the Tories elect May, she calls a GE and there you have a de facto 2nd ref before article 50 is invoked. Depends how likely she or an remainer is to be elected.

That wouldn't work, since all the main parties will promote a Remain stance.
They couldn't claim a mandate for Remain if Remain was the only option you could vote for.

[Einion Yrth]

Diderot said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

CrutyRammers said:

Ireland did it. The Netherlands have just done it. Greece did it. It's not exactly unusual in matters eu for a public vote to be overridden.

No chance Westminster will try to over turn the will of 17,000,000 people.

if the Tories elect May, she calls a GE and there you have a de facto 2nd ref before article 50 is invoked. Depends how likely she or an remainer is to be elected.

With careful positioning UKIP could clean up in this scenario. UKIP and careful positioning is a bit of a non-sequitur and I don't really want a UKIP government, but I really wouldn't think that a government would be elected on a ticket of "vote for us and we'll completely ignore what you want."

[TonyToniTone]

Is there any evidence of this being a botnet?

[Einion Yrth]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The IP addies must be being spoofed too, though, I don't believe that either Vatican City or British Antarctic Territories will have enough computers to generate the apparent traffic.

[Einion Yrth]

TonyToniTone said:

Is there any evidence of this being a botnet?

60 odd thousand signatories from Vatican City ( which has a population of 842 )? Not conclusive I guess, but indicative.

[AreOut]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

nope, nothing to do with that

someone edited the file after people have worked out that most of the signatures aren't actually british

[MikeyC]

looks like someones taken care of the highly suspicious ones:

{"name":"North Korea","code":"KP","signature_count":26}
{"name":"Vatican City","code":"VA","signature_count":45}

[Einion Yrth]

MikeyC said:

looks like someones taken care of the highly suspicious ones:

{"name":"North Korea","code":"KP","signature_count":26}
{"name":"Vatican City","code":"VA","signature_count":45}

Are there 26 British nationals in North Korea?

[VolvoT5]

Robertj21a said:

Sorry, you're very deluded.

OK, so the Tory leadership contest is going to take 3-4 months. Now just imagine during that time a political vacuum occurs and Nicola Sturgeon is pushing for independence / union break up, the uncertainty continues to hammer the markets and business, the press continue their relentless daily doomsaying, the promises the leave campaign made start to unravel and many Brexit voters start to realise the implications of leaving and the euphoria of 'victory' fades. During this time there will be regular polling showing that the support for Brexit has dropped well under 45% and many many 'Bregret' stories will be on the news.

By the time the new conservative leader has been crowned it would not be beyond possibility for them to decide the *must* hold a vote in parliament because of all the above changes. Alternatively they might say they will need to have another election before doing anything to get a mandate. After the election (now into 2017) they could invoke article 50, negotiate terms but then decide we *must* have a referendum on the exit terms. Remain problem solved.

Is it really that deluded to think events could unfold like this? When politicians and the media conspire it is possible for them to make almost anything seem reasonable and fair.

[adam quantrill]

The signatory also has to receive an email and click on a link. Presumably the bot would have to receive these instructions too and read from the link URL so that the IP addresses match up (as one might expect 90% or genuine responders to use the same computer.)

So - either quite a sophisticated bot or the stats will be quite skewed.

[Gogoplata]

Diderot said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

CrutyRammers said:

Ireland did it. The Netherlands have just done it. Greece did it. It's not exactly unusual in matters eu for a public vote to be overridden.

No chance Westminster will try to over turn the will of 17,000,000 people.

if the Tories elect May, she calls a GE and there you have a de facto 2nd ref before article 50 is invoked. Depends how likely she or an remainer is to be elected.

And that would put the Tories back to square one where they & Labour would lose even more votes to UKIP, as UKIP would invoke article 50 whereas the other major political parties will have a manifesto to not invoke it.

Besides a Major Party manifesto mightn't have quite a strong mandate given that Scotland & Northern Ireland voters would be out of the equation.

[gnc]

just as a matter of interest, has any e petition changed anything. or is it has i believe another scam / con job on us thick plebs, make us think we have a say after all the bull of an election is over.

[Robertj21a]

VolvoT5 said:

OK, so the Tory leadership contest is going to take 3-4 months. Now just imagine during that time a political vacuum occurs and Nicola Sturgeon is pushing for independence / union break up, the uncertainty continues to hammer the markets and business, the press continue their relentless daily doomsaying, the promises the leave campaign made start to unravel and many Brexit voters start to realise the implications of leaving and the euphoria of 'victory' fades. During this time there will be regular polling showing that the support for Brexit has dropped well under 45% and many many 'Bregret' stories will be on the news.

By the time the new conservative leader has been crowned it would not be beyond possibility for them to decide the *must* hold a vote in parliament because of all the above changes. Alternatively they might say they will need to have another election before doing anything to get a mandate. After the election (now into 2017) they could invoke article 50, negotiate terms but then decide we *must* have a referendum on the exit terms. Remain problem solved.

Is it really that deluded to think events could unfold like this? When politicians and the media conspire it is possible for them to make almost anything seem reasonable and fair.

Have you been on the bottle this afternoon ?

[4x4Tyke]

The petition doesn't need any fake names to achieve its goal it has already blown well past the 100k necessary.

These fake names are clearly an attempt at sabotage, the fact that they are in places like North Korea and the Vatican pretty much proves they are intended to stand out as fake. If Remain supporters were behind these addresses they would be plausible, since they are not we can be pretty sure who is behind this and their motives.

The count goes up when the link in the email confirmation is clicked so these fakes are unlikely to have been counted anyway.

[AreOut]

4x4Tyke said:

The petition doesn't need any fake names to achieve its goal it has already blown well past the 100k necessary.

These fake names are clearly an attempt at sabotage, the fact that they are in places like North Korea and the Vatican pretty much proves they are intended to stand out as fake. If Remain supporters were behind these addresses they would be plausible, since they are not we can be pretty sure who is behind this and their motives.

The count goes up when the link in the email confirmation is clicked so these fakes are unlikely to have been counted anyway.

huh how would you know if there is more than 100K genuine signatures? Also don't you find ridiculous that 100K of Internet clicksters overturn decision of 17 million people who actually got out to vote?

[VolvoT5]

Robertj21a said:

Have you been on the bottle this afternoon ?

If you are just going to throw cheap insults rather than engage with the points made, why bother posting at all?

[4x4Tyke]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You don't need a botnet, it is trivial exercise to complete that form with a wide range of web site testing software. The json data is the submitted form content. The signature needs a UK address, post code and the clicking of an email confirmation to actually be counted. Bots generally cannot handle email confirmation which is why it is used.