2nd Referendum please - I don't like how that one panned out
Discussion
jonnyb said:
However, that intolerance and bigotry finding its voice, that has happened, and is happening again all over Europe. That leaves me worried for my future, and more importantly that of my children.
Intolerance and bigotry such as arguing that anyone over a certain age is a stupid racist and should be deprived of voting rights?I've seen far more intolerance from the Remainers than the Exiters.
AJS- said:
How exactly?
There was a bit more to national socialism than just not liking foreigners. There's the whole autocratic centralised state part, which is really much more important and much more comparable to the modern EU than to any significant faction of the Leave campaign.
Just because Hitler used nationalism and racism as levers to gain and abuse power it doesn't mean all future concerns about sovereignty and immigration are degrees of nazism.
but if you use any reference of the Nazi party people think it will give their post more gravitas. If people think todays UK resembles anything like post WW1 Germany then they need to go and look again.There was a bit more to national socialism than just not liking foreigners. There's the whole autocratic centralised state part, which is really much more important and much more comparable to the modern EU than to any significant faction of the Leave campaign.
Just because Hitler used nationalism and racism as levers to gain and abuse power it doesn't mean all future concerns about sovereignty and immigration are degrees of nazism.
We can deal with the idiots who don't even understand the filth they write or speak. Its up to us to shout down any of these idiots and if I see or here anyone behaving like this I will not shirk my responsibility to give them an appropriate response.
The Don of Croy said:
jonnyb said:
...So I went home and read. It starts small, intolerance, prejudice. Then that intolerance finds a voice, the argument that what has happened to you is not your fault it's there's gains traction. It snowballs. In Germany it lead to national socialism and the gas chambers.
Now I am no way saying that is what's going to happen here. However, that intolerance and bigotry finding its voice, that has happened, and is happening again all over Europe. That leaves me worried for my future, and more importantly that of my children...
Did you also read about the settlement after WW1 ?Now I am no way saying that is what's going to happen here. However, that intolerance and bigotry finding its voice, that has happened, and is happening again all over Europe. That leaves me worried for my future, and more importantly that of my children...
We were taught (albeit 40 odd years ago) that a large part of problem was the terms of the Versailles Treaty and it's seeming injustice to Germany, thus fostering a lingering feeling of being hard-done-by. Is there a parallel to the UK in 2016? Apart from our football team?
jonnyb said:
wc98 said:
jonnyb said:
Just a couple more thoughts in this then I will leave it.
The lurch to the right has left the ultra right wing, xenophobic morons of this country feeling empowered. They feel their anti-immigration, anti-foreigner argument is gaining traction.
Let me expand, why I feel this way.
A couple of years ago I flew a group of school children to Poland for a visit Aushwitz. Kindly they invited the crew along.
And standing there, surrounded by snow, on a bitterly cold afternoon. Looking at gas chambers, standing in the very spot where selection took place. Knowing that where I stood millions went to their deaths. Men, women, children. Their only crime was to be different.
To say it affected me greatly would be an understatement.
I asked myself how could this happen? How could a civilised country like Germany end up at the gates of Aushwitz?
So I went home and read. It starts small, intolerance, prejudice. Then that intolerance finds a voice, the argument that what has happened to you is not your fault it's there's gains traction. It snowballs. In Germany it lead to national socialism and the gas chambers.
Now I am no way saying that is what's going to happen here. However, that intolerance and bigotry finding its voice, that has happened, and is happening again all over Europe. That leaves me worried for my future, and more importantly that of my children.
you know how that happened ? because an autocratic dictatorship had all the power. the direction the eu is now headed might seem a good idea to some. what happens in the future when the commission is made up of different people, with different ideas , some of which we might find distasteful or downright dangerous ? who polices the dictatorship.The lurch to the right has left the ultra right wing, xenophobic morons of this country feeling empowered. They feel their anti-immigration, anti-foreigner argument is gaining traction.
Let me expand, why I feel this way.
A couple of years ago I flew a group of school children to Poland for a visit Aushwitz. Kindly they invited the crew along.
And standing there, surrounded by snow, on a bitterly cold afternoon. Looking at gas chambers, standing in the very spot where selection took place. Knowing that where I stood millions went to their deaths. Men, women, children. Their only crime was to be different.
To say it affected me greatly would be an understatement.
I asked myself how could this happen? How could a civilised country like Germany end up at the gates of Aushwitz?
So I went home and read. It starts small, intolerance, prejudice. Then that intolerance finds a voice, the argument that what has happened to you is not your fault it's there's gains traction. It snowballs. In Germany it lead to national socialism and the gas chambers.
Now I am no way saying that is what's going to happen here. However, that intolerance and bigotry finding its voice, that has happened, and is happening again all over Europe. That leaves me worried for my future, and more importantly that of my children.
anyone reading the following that still wishes the uk to be a member of the uk is a complete fruitloop imo . i think this document shows just how important democracy really is.
Brussels, 28/06/2016
160628_02_en
FOREWORD
“Shared Vision, Common Action: A Stronger Europe”. A Global Strategy for the European Union’s Foreign and Security Policy
http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2016/160628_...
Like I said, were just starting down this road. But starting we are.
Did you really not see it? And, you want to us to reverse the referendum and get back on the path to extremism growing in Europe.
Merkel did more for the Out vote than any UK politician. The scenes from Cologne swayed a lot of folks as they didn't want their wives and girlfriends, sisters, daughters being gang-fingered in public. What's playing out in Sweden is being suppressed by the newspapers there - Socialism, huh? Gotta love that total control freakery!!!
jshell said:
jonnyb said:
wc98 said:
jonnyb said:
Just a couple more thoughts in this then I will leave it.
The lurch to the right has left the ultra right wing, xenophobic morons of this country feeling empowered. They feel their anti-immigration, anti-foreigner argument is gaining traction.
Let me expand, why I feel this way.
A couple of years ago I flew a group of school children to Poland for a visit Aushwitz. Kindly they invited the crew along.
And standing there, surrounded by snow, on a bitterly cold afternoon. Looking at gas chambers, standing in the very spot where selection took place. Knowing that where I stood millions went to their deaths. Men, women, children. Their only crime was to be different.
To say it affected me greatly would be an understatement.
I asked myself how could this happen? How could a civilised country like Germany end up at the gates of Aushwitz?
So I went home and read. It starts small, intolerance, prejudice. Then that intolerance finds a voice, the argument that what has happened to you is not your fault it's there's gains traction. It snowballs. In Germany it lead to national socialism and the gas chambers.
Now I am no way saying that is what's going to happen here. However, that intolerance and bigotry finding its voice, that has happened, and is happening again all over Europe. That leaves me worried for my future, and more importantly that of my children.
you know how that happened ? because an autocratic dictatorship had all the power. the direction the eu is now headed might seem a good idea to some. what happens in the future when the commission is made up of different people, with different ideas , some of which we might find distasteful or downright dangerous ? who polices the dictatorship.The lurch to the right has left the ultra right wing, xenophobic morons of this country feeling empowered. They feel their anti-immigration, anti-foreigner argument is gaining traction.
Let me expand, why I feel this way.
A couple of years ago I flew a group of school children to Poland for a visit Aushwitz. Kindly they invited the crew along.
And standing there, surrounded by snow, on a bitterly cold afternoon. Looking at gas chambers, standing in the very spot where selection took place. Knowing that where I stood millions went to their deaths. Men, women, children. Their only crime was to be different.
To say it affected me greatly would be an understatement.
I asked myself how could this happen? How could a civilised country like Germany end up at the gates of Aushwitz?
So I went home and read. It starts small, intolerance, prejudice. Then that intolerance finds a voice, the argument that what has happened to you is not your fault it's there's gains traction. It snowballs. In Germany it lead to national socialism and the gas chambers.
Now I am no way saying that is what's going to happen here. However, that intolerance and bigotry finding its voice, that has happened, and is happening again all over Europe. That leaves me worried for my future, and more importantly that of my children.
anyone reading the following that still wishes the uk to be a member of the uk is a complete fruitloop imo . i think this document shows just how important democracy really is.
Brussels, 28/06/2016
160628_02_en
FOREWORD
“Shared Vision, Common Action: A Stronger Europe”. A Global Strategy for the European Union’s Foreign and Security Policy
http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2016/160628_...
Like I said, were just starting down this road. But starting we are.
Did you really not see it? And, you want to us to reverse the referendum and get back on the path to extremism growing in Europe.
Merkel did more for the Out vote than any UK politician. The scenes from Cologne swayed a lot of folks as they didn't want their wives and girlfriends, sisters, daughters being gang-fingered in public. What's playing out in Sweden is being suppressed by the newspapers there - Socialism, huh? Gotta love that total control freakery!!!
johnxjsc1985 said:
AJS- said:
How exactly?
There was a bit more to national socialism than just not liking foreigners. There's the whole autocratic centralised state part, which is really much more important and much more comparable to the modern EU than to any significant faction of the Leave campaign.
Just because Hitler used nationalism and racism as levers to gain and abuse power it doesn't mean all future concerns about sovereignty and immigration are degrees of nazism.
but if you use any reference of the Nazi party people think it will give their post more gravitas. If people think todays UK resembles anything like post WW1 Germany then they need to go and look again.There was a bit more to national socialism than just not liking foreigners. There's the whole autocratic centralised state part, which is really much more important and much more comparable to the modern EU than to any significant faction of the Leave campaign.
Just because Hitler used nationalism and racism as levers to gain and abuse power it doesn't mean all future concerns about sovereignty and immigration are degrees of nazism.
We can deal with the idiots who don't even understand the filth they write or speak. Its up to us to shout down any of these idiots and if I see or here anyone behaving like this I will not shirk my responsibility to give them an appropriate response.
Do I think the UK currently resembles post WW1 Germany? Of course not. Could it? That remains to be seen, but the near 60% rise in racial hate crimes since Friday is very worrying.
jonnyb said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
AJS- said:
How exactly?
There was a bit more to national socialism than just not liking foreigners. There's the whole autocratic centralised state part, which is really much more important and much more comparable to the modern EU than to any significant faction of the Leave campaign.
Just because Hitler used nationalism and racism as levers to gain and abuse power it doesn't mean all future concerns about sovereignty and immigration are degrees of nazism.
but if you use any reference of the Nazi party people think it will give their post more gravitas. If people think todays UK resembles anything like post WW1 Germany then they need to go and look again.There was a bit more to national socialism than just not liking foreigners. There's the whole autocratic centralised state part, which is really much more important and much more comparable to the modern EU than to any significant faction of the Leave campaign.
Just because Hitler used nationalism and racism as levers to gain and abuse power it doesn't mean all future concerns about sovereignty and immigration are degrees of nazism.
We can deal with the idiots who don't even understand the filth they write or speak. Its up to us to shout down any of these idiots and if I see or here anyone behaving like this I will not shirk my responsibility to give them an appropriate response.
Do I think the UK currently resembles post WW1 Germany? Of course not. Could it? That remains to be seen, but the near 60% rise in racial hate crimes since Friday is very worrying.
Has there been a rise? Probably, but there's a potential difference between reports and events and arrests, however unpalatable that will be to some.
turbobloke said:
jshell said:
jonnyb said:
wc98 said:
jonnyb said:
Just a couple more thoughts in this then I will leave it.
The lurch to the right has left the ultra right wing, xenophobic morons of this country feeling empowered. They feel their anti-immigration, anti-foreigner argument is gaining traction.
Let me expand, why I feel this way.
A couple of years ago I flew a group of school children to Poland for a visit Aushwitz. Kindly they invited the crew along.
And standing there, surrounded by snow, on a bitterly cold afternoon. Looking at gas chambers, standing in the very spot where selection took place. Knowing that where I stood millions went to their deaths. Men, women, children. Their only crime was to be different.
To say it affected me greatly would be an understatement.
I asked myself how could this happen? How could a civilised country like Germany end up at the gates of Aushwitz?
So I went home and read. It starts small, intolerance, prejudice. Then that intolerance finds a voice, the argument that what has happened to you is not your fault it's there's gains traction. It snowballs. In Germany it lead to national socialism and the gas chambers.
Now I am no way saying that is what's going to happen here. However, that intolerance and bigotry finding its voice, that has happened, and is happening again all over Europe. That leaves me worried for my future, and more importantly that of my children.
you know how that happened ? because an autocratic dictatorship had all the power. the direction the eu is now headed might seem a good idea to some. what happens in the future when the commission is made up of different people, with different ideas , some of which we might find distasteful or downright dangerous ? who polices the dictatorship.The lurch to the right has left the ultra right wing, xenophobic morons of this country feeling empowered. They feel their anti-immigration, anti-foreigner argument is gaining traction.
Let me expand, why I feel this way.
A couple of years ago I flew a group of school children to Poland for a visit Aushwitz. Kindly they invited the crew along.
And standing there, surrounded by snow, on a bitterly cold afternoon. Looking at gas chambers, standing in the very spot where selection took place. Knowing that where I stood millions went to their deaths. Men, women, children. Their only crime was to be different.
To say it affected me greatly would be an understatement.
I asked myself how could this happen? How could a civilised country like Germany end up at the gates of Aushwitz?
So I went home and read. It starts small, intolerance, prejudice. Then that intolerance finds a voice, the argument that what has happened to you is not your fault it's there's gains traction. It snowballs. In Germany it lead to national socialism and the gas chambers.
Now I am no way saying that is what's going to happen here. However, that intolerance and bigotry finding its voice, that has happened, and is happening again all over Europe. That leaves me worried for my future, and more importantly that of my children.
anyone reading the following that still wishes the uk to be a member of the uk is a complete fruitloop imo . i think this document shows just how important democracy really is.
Brussels, 28/06/2016
160628_02_en
FOREWORD
“Shared Vision, Common Action: A Stronger Europe”. A Global Strategy for the European Union’s Foreign and Security Policy
http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2016/160628_...
Like I said, were just starting down this road. But starting we are.
Did you really not see it? And, you want to us to reverse the referendum and get back on the path to extremism growing in Europe.
Merkel did more for the Out vote than any UK politician. The scenes from Cologne swayed a lot of folks as they didn't want their wives and girlfriends, sisters, daughters being gang-fingered in public. What's playing out in Sweden is being suppressed by the newspapers there - Socialism, huh? Gotta love that total control freakery!!!
turbobloke said:
lionelf said:
turbobloke said:
10 hours ago approx in the Independent:
Dismissing the petition, Prime Minister's spokesperson says another vote is 'not remotely on the cards'
That's THIS Prime Minister though. Another is incoming and may not hold such an absolute view.Dismissing the petition, Prime Minister's spokesperson says another vote is 'not remotely on the cards'
I'd struggle to see anyone from the Tory remain camp want to be responsible for pressing the A50 button and thus going down in history as the person who not only took us out but also possibly opened the door to the breakup of the UK.
Boris, Gove or Fox of course should have no such qualms.
A May or Hunt leadership may want to see if there's any wriggle room.
CMD has already pressed the Brexit button, the rest is project management software.
Merkel has pressed the button of no return on the EU side.
Merkel dashes hopes of a second Brexit vote: “No time for wishful thinking”
Reported in Global Investing ~2 hours ago:
https://www.biznews.com/global-investing/2016/06/2...
'Last fragile bubble popped'
(Outloud dreamers' hopes of a second vote) "were dashed yesterday by the 28 country organisation’s de facto leader, German Chancellor Angela Merkel. She is forthright: the UK must take the next logical step after citizens exercised their choice and is urging the 27 countries still in the union to move rapidly to avoid more departures."
"European Union leaders said there could be no turning back for the U.K. after Prime Minister David Cameron used his last EU summit to express disappointment at his failure to win the referendum he called on Britain’s membership."
"As of this evening, I see no way back from the Brexit vote,” German Chancellor Angela Merkel told reporters after the meeting in Brussels on Tuesday. “This is no time for wishful thinking, but rather to grasp reality.”
Wakey Wakey!
How very novel.
Must be nice in over there in Honourableshire.
lostkiwi said:
They can at the moment and will be able for two years after the A50 button is pushed (unless an agreement is reached before then).
After that it becomes less certain as it's dependent on the deal struck.
If it's Norway style then no change. If it's Swiss style then no change. If it's WTO style then it's all different.
I can live and work in the UK indefinitely on my NZ passport through birth rights inherited from my parents.
I cannot live or work in mainland Europe.
I can stay for 3 months at a time but have no rights to healthcare, social services or employment through my NZ citizenship though my UK residency gives EHIC rights. If I want to stay longer than 3 months I need to apply for residency and register with the relevant authority with no guarantee of acceptance. That's the difference.
That sounds remarkably sensible though? People can still get in although subject to some scrutiny vs others wandering in "off the streets".After that it becomes less certain as it's dependent on the deal struck.
If it's Norway style then no change. If it's Swiss style then no change. If it's WTO style then it's all different.
I can live and work in the UK indefinitely on my NZ passport through birth rights inherited from my parents.
I cannot live or work in mainland Europe.
I can stay for 3 months at a time but have no rights to healthcare, social services or employment through my NZ citizenship though my UK residency gives EHIC rights. If I want to stay longer than 3 months I need to apply for residency and register with the relevant authority with no guarantee of acceptance. That's the difference.
TX.
turbobloke said:
jshell said:
jonnyb said:
wc98 said:
jonnyb said:
Just a couple more thoughts in this then I will leave it.
The lurch to the right has left the ultra right wing, xenophobic morons of this country feeling empowered. They feel their anti-immigration, anti-foreigner argument is gaining traction.
Let me expand, why I feel this way.
A couple of years ago I flew a group of school children to Poland for a visit Aushwitz. Kindly they invited the crew along.
And standing there, surrounded by snow, on a bitterly cold afternoon. Looking at gas chambers, standing in the very spot where selection took place. Knowing that where I stood millions went to their deaths. Men, women, children. Their only crime was to be different.
To say it affected me greatly would be an understatement.
I asked myself how could this happen? How could a civilised country like Germany end up at the gates of Aushwitz?
So I went home and read. It starts small, intolerance, prejudice. Then that intolerance finds a voice, the argument that what has happened to you is not your fault it's there's gains traction. It snowballs. In Germany it lead to national socialism and the gas chambers.
Now I am no way saying that is what's going to happen here. However, that intolerance and bigotry finding its voice, that has happened, and is happening again all over Europe. That leaves me worried for my future, and more importantly that of my children.
you know how that happened ? because an autocratic dictatorship had all the power. the direction the eu is now headed might seem a good idea to some. what happens in the future when the commission is made up of different people, with different ideas , some of which we might find distasteful or downright dangerous ? who polices the dictatorship.The lurch to the right has left the ultra right wing, xenophobic morons of this country feeling empowered. They feel their anti-immigration, anti-foreigner argument is gaining traction.
Let me expand, why I feel this way.
A couple of years ago I flew a group of school children to Poland for a visit Aushwitz. Kindly they invited the crew along.
And standing there, surrounded by snow, on a bitterly cold afternoon. Looking at gas chambers, standing in the very spot where selection took place. Knowing that where I stood millions went to their deaths. Men, women, children. Their only crime was to be different.
To say it affected me greatly would be an understatement.
I asked myself how could this happen? How could a civilised country like Germany end up at the gates of Aushwitz?
So I went home and read. It starts small, intolerance, prejudice. Then that intolerance finds a voice, the argument that what has happened to you is not your fault it's there's gains traction. It snowballs. In Germany it lead to national socialism and the gas chambers.
Now I am no way saying that is what's going to happen here. However, that intolerance and bigotry finding its voice, that has happened, and is happening again all over Europe. That leaves me worried for my future, and more importantly that of my children.
anyone reading the following that still wishes the uk to be a member of the uk is a complete fruitloop imo . i think this document shows just how important democracy really is.
Brussels, 28/06/2016
160628_02_en
FOREWORD
“Shared Vision, Common Action: A Stronger Europe”. A Global Strategy for the European Union’s Foreign and Security Policy
http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2016/160628_...
Like I said, were just starting down this road. But starting we are.
Did you really not see it? And, you want to us to reverse the referendum and get back on the path to extremism growing in Europe.
Merkel did more for the Out vote than any UK politician. The scenes from Cologne swayed a lot of folks as they didn't want their wives and girlfriends, sisters, daughters being gang-fingered in public. What's playing out in Sweden is being suppressed by the newspapers there - Socialism, huh? Gotta love that total control freakery!!!
Is the EU as autocratic as people make out, I don't think so. The parliament is democratically elected, most of its laws have to be ratified by majority voting by member states. It's just that most member states didn't agree with us.
To paraphrase some one far more important than myself. The lights are going out across Europe, I just hope we can switch them back in again.
(Maybe 100W light bulbs!
)jonnyb said:
I would agree that the EU is not perfect by any stretch. It needs major reform. However, with the U.K. Now out, the chances of that reform are very small.
Not sure where you've been for the last few months? Reform has categorically been ruled out - see result of Brexit vote....
jonnyb said:
Is the EU as autocratic as people make out, I don't think so. The parliament is democratically elected, most of its laws have to be ratified by majority voting by member states. It's just that most member states didn't agree with us.
Because different countries have vastly different issues and hence one approach for all was never going to work. See the € for more details...jonnyb said:
To paraphrase some one far more important than myself. The lights are going out across Europe, I just hope we can switch them back in again.
Or more accurately, the lights are going out across Europe due to the inevitable failure of the EU and the Euro which was never going to be viable.Fortunately we will soon be out of it and not dragged into the mess.
jonnyb said:
turbobloke said:
jshell said:
jonnyb said:
wc98 said:
jonnyb said:
Just a couple more thoughts in this then I will leave it.
The lurch to the right has left the ultra right wing, xenophobic morons of this country feeling empowered. They feel their anti-immigration, anti-foreigner argument is gaining traction.
Let me expand, why I feel this way.
A couple of years ago I flew a group of school children to Poland for a visit Aushwitz. Kindly they invited the crew along.
And standing there, surrounded by snow, on a bitterly cold afternoon. Looking at gas chambers, standing in the very spot where selection took place. Knowing that where I stood millions went to their deaths. Men, women, children. Their only crime was to be different.
To say it affected me greatly would be an understatement.
I asked myself how could this happen? How could a civilised country like Germany end up at the gates of Aushwitz?
So I went home and read. It starts small, intolerance, prejudice. Then that intolerance finds a voice, the argument that what has happened to you is not your fault it's there's gains traction. It snowballs. In Germany it lead to national socialism and the gas chambers.
Now I am no way saying that is what's going to happen here. However, that intolerance and bigotry finding its voice, that has happened, and is happening again all over Europe. That leaves me worried for my future, and more importantly that of my children.
you know how that happened ? because an autocratic dictatorship had all the power. the direction the eu is now headed might seem a good idea to some. what happens in the future when the commission is made up of different people, with different ideas , some of which we might find distasteful or downright dangerous ? who polices the dictatorship.The lurch to the right has left the ultra right wing, xenophobic morons of this country feeling empowered. They feel their anti-immigration, anti-foreigner argument is gaining traction.
Let me expand, why I feel this way.
A couple of years ago I flew a group of school children to Poland for a visit Aushwitz. Kindly they invited the crew along.
And standing there, surrounded by snow, on a bitterly cold afternoon. Looking at gas chambers, standing in the very spot where selection took place. Knowing that where I stood millions went to their deaths. Men, women, children. Their only crime was to be different.
To say it affected me greatly would be an understatement.
I asked myself how could this happen? How could a civilised country like Germany end up at the gates of Aushwitz?
So I went home and read. It starts small, intolerance, prejudice. Then that intolerance finds a voice, the argument that what has happened to you is not your fault it's there's gains traction. It snowballs. In Germany it lead to national socialism and the gas chambers.
Now I am no way saying that is what's going to happen here. However, that intolerance and bigotry finding its voice, that has happened, and is happening again all over Europe. That leaves me worried for my future, and more importantly that of my children.
anyone reading the following that still wishes the uk to be a member of the uk is a complete fruitloop imo . i think this document shows just how important democracy really is.
Brussels, 28/06/2016
160628_02_en
FOREWORD
“Shared Vision, Common Action: A Stronger Europe”. A Global Strategy for the European Union’s Foreign and Security Policy
http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2016/160628_...
Like I said, were just starting down this road. But starting we are.
Did you really not see it? And, you want to us to reverse the referendum and get back on the path to extremism growing in Europe.
Merkel did more for the Out vote than any UK politician. The scenes from Cologne swayed a lot of folks as they didn't want their wives and girlfriends, sisters, daughters being gang-fingered in public. What's playing out in Sweden is being suppressed by the newspapers there - Socialism, huh? Gotta love that total control freakery!!!
In the wake of brexit, your right, reform will be nonexistent. That's what I said, before brexit is a lost opportunity.
As for the Euro, it was a very good idea, let down by its execution. Had the UK been involved from the outset I believe the outcome for it would have been very different. To see monetary union correctly implemented and working we only have to look across the Atlantic. The United States of America seems to be doing ok. It's a real shame we will not be seeing a United States of Europe. It's the way forward.
As for the Euro, it was a very good idea, let down by its execution. Had the UK been involved from the outset I believe the outcome for it would have been very different. To see monetary union correctly implemented and working we only have to look across the Atlantic. The United States of America seems to be doing ok. It's a real shame we will not be seeing a United States of Europe. It's the way forward.
jonnyb said:
In the wake of brexit, your right, reform will be nonexistent. That's what I said, before brexit is a lost opportunity.
see above - reform was already non-existent, as evidenced numerous times over previous years.jonnyb said:
As for the Euro, it was a very good idea, let down by its execution. Had the UK been involved from the outset I believe the outcome for it would have been very different. To see monetary union correctly implemented and working we only have to look across the Atlantic.
It's a nonsense - one currency and interest rate policy for numerous different countries with very different economics and demographics. It was destined to fail and has done so - see the economies of Southern European countries for more details.jonnyb said:
The United States of America seems to be doing ok. It's a real shame we will not be seeing a United States of Europe. It's the way forward.
You do realise that all the states in the US didn't previously have their own currency and all have the same President etc?sidicks said:
jonnyb said:
In the wake of brexit, your right, reform will be nonexistent. That's what I said, before brexit is a lost opportunity.
see above - reform was already non-existent, as evidenced numerous times over previous years.jonnyb said:
As for the Euro, it was a very good idea, let down by its execution. Had the UK been involved from the outset I believe the outcome for it would have been very different. To see monetary union correctly implemented and working we only have to look across the Atlantic.
It's a nonsense - one currency and interest rate policy for numerous different countries with very different economics and demographics. It was destined to fail and has done so - see the economies of Southern European countries for more details.jonnyb said:
The United States of America seems to be doing ok. It's a real shame we will not be seeing a United States of Europe. It's the way forward.
You do realise that all the states in the US didn't previously have their own currency and all have the same President etc?The US did have different currencies, and we already have an EU president. We could get rid of the queen and spend the money saved on the NHS!
jonnyb said:
The Euro in its current form is a nonsense. It needs full political integration to make it work. This was pointed out to the Euro zone at the time.
The US did have different currencies, and we already have an EU president. We could get rid of the queen and spend the money saved on the NHS!
Brand Finance estimated the Royal Family's net contribution to the UK economy at £1.16bn in 2015.The US did have different currencies, and we already have an EU president. We could get rid of the queen and spend the money saved on the NHS!
Republic is a campaign group which calls for the abolition of the monarchy, their research shows the monarchy cost the UK £334m in 2015.
turbobloke said:
jonnyb said:
The Euro in its current form is a nonsense. It needs full political integration to make it work. This was pointed out to the Euro zone at the time.
The US did have different currencies, and we already have an EU president. We could get rid of the queen and spend the money saved on the NHS!
Brand Finance estimated the Royal Family's net contribution to the UK economy at £1.16bn in 2015.The US did have different currencies, and we already have an EU president. We could get rid of the queen and spend the money saved on the NHS!
Republic is a campaign group which calls for the abolition of the monarchy, their research shows the monarchy cost the UK £334m in 2015.
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