2nd Referendum please - I don't like how that one panned out
Discussion
jonnyb said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
AJS- said:
How exactly?
There was a bit more to national socialism than just not liking foreigners. There's the whole autocratic centralised state part, which is really much more important and much more comparable to the modern EU than to any significant faction of the Leave campaign.
Just because Hitler used nationalism and racism as levers to gain and abuse power it doesn't mean all future concerns about sovereignty and immigration are degrees of nazism.
but if you use any reference of the Nazi party people think it will give their post more gravitas. If people think todays UK resembles anything like post WW1 Germany then they need to go and look again.There was a bit more to national socialism than just not liking foreigners. There's the whole autocratic centralised state part, which is really much more important and much more comparable to the modern EU than to any significant faction of the Leave campaign.
Just because Hitler used nationalism and racism as levers to gain and abuse power it doesn't mean all future concerns about sovereignty and immigration are degrees of nazism.
We can deal with the idiots who don't even understand the filth they write or speak. Its up to us to shout down any of these idiots and if I see or here anyone behaving like this I will not shirk my responsibility to give them an appropriate response.
Do I think the UK currently resembles post WW1 Germany? Of course not. Could it? That remains to be seen, but the near 60% rise in racial hate crimes since Friday is very worrying.
[quote=turbobloke]
Merkel dashes hopes of a second Brexit vote: “No time for wishful thinking”
/quote]
Firstly she can't have it both ways.
Either they wait for Articles 50 or they don't. We can have 50 referenda and it is f
k all to do with them apparently.
BUT
The result is the result, crack on chaps and make it happen.
Merkel dashes hopes of a second Brexit vote: “No time for wishful thinking”
/quote]
Firstly she can't have it both ways.
Either they wait for Articles 50 or they don't. We can have 50 referenda and it is f
k all to do with them apparently.BUT
The result is the result, crack on chaps and make it happen.
desolate said:
turbobloke said:
Merkel dashes hopes of a second Brexit vote: “No time for wishful thinking”
Firstly she can't have it both ways.Either they wait for Articles 50 or they don't. We can have 50 referenda and it is f
k all to do with them apparently.BUT
The result is the result, crack on chaps and make it happen.
jonnyb said:
I would agree that the EU is not perfect by any stretch. It needs major reform. However, with the U.K. Now out, the chances of that reform are very small.
It needs major reform. By voting Leave we have increased pressure on them. So, some reform is now possible.If we had voted Remain, then there wasn't a hope in Hell that we could have secured any reforms.
Tusk and Junker explained today that no deal is possible without the UK accepting free movement of people.
In that case, there is no point in having a negotiation at all. We should respond by giving 6 months notice under Article 50. I'd sooner give three months, but we will need to hire, and train some border staff, and some HMRC staff to collect the 10% that will be applied to German Car imports.
On Friday, we would see a press conference where Tusk, sporting a black eye, announces his immediate resignation.
Later, we would see a photo of Angela Merkel coming out of a restaurant with bruised knuckles. Junker's body would be found in a park, having apparently choked on his own vomit while taking a leak.
turbobloke said:
jonnyb said:
The Euro in its current form is a nonsense. It needs full political integration to make it work. This was pointed out to the Euro zone at the time.
The US did have different currencies, and we already have an EU president. We could get rid of the queen and spend the money saved on the NHS!
Brand Finance estimated the Royal Family's net contribution to the UK economy at £1.16bn in 2015.The US did have different currencies, and we already have an EU president. We could get rid of the queen and spend the money saved on the NHS!
Republic is a campaign group which calls for the abolition of the monarchy, their research shows the monarchy cost the UK £334m in 2015.
I've been able to see for years that the Queen does a fantastic job. She also makes a huge profit for us.
I was really sad when Britannia was sold off. Britannia was a floating sales emporium for Britain, but the lefties were not happy that it was luxuriously appointed.
Well, duh!
That is exactly why foreign leaders were happy to queue up to board her.
It would have only cost £10m to refit her. She would have paid for herself in a couple of weeks.
jonnyb said:
Given that I keep coming back to a right wing and positively Euro Sceptic forum to post totally the opposite views...
It's a good thing that you do so, and as PH is ultimately open to all views expressed within the posting rules, you can carry on and hopefully will do so.don4l said:
turbobloke said:
jonnyb said:
The Euro in its current form is a nonsense. It needs full political integration to make it work. This was pointed out to the Euro zone at the time.
The US did have different currencies, and we already have an EU president. We could get rid of the queen and spend the money saved on the NHS!
Brand Finance estimated the Royal Family's net contribution to the UK economy at £1.16bn in 2015.The US did have different currencies, and we already have an EU president. We could get rid of the queen and spend the money saved on the NHS!
Republic is a campaign group which calls for the abolition of the monarchy, their research shows the monarchy cost the UK £334m in 2015.
I've been able to see for years that the Queen does a fantastic job. She also makes a huge profit for us.
I was really sad when Britannia was sold off. Britannia was a floating sales emporium for Britain, but the lefties were not happy that it was luxuriously appointed.
Well, duh!
That is exactly why foreign leaders were happy to queue up to board her.
It would have only cost £10m to refit her. She would have paid for herself in a couple of weeks.
sidicks said:
jonnyb said:
I would agree that the EU is not perfect by any stretch. It needs major reform. However, with the U.K. Now out, the chances of that reform are very small.
Not sure where you've been for the last few months? Reform has categorically been ruled out - see result of Brexit vote....
jonnyb said:
Is the EU as autocratic as people make out, I don't think so. The parliament is democratically elected, most of its laws have to be ratified by majority voting by member states. It's just that most member states didn't agree with us.
Because different countries have vastly different issues and hence one approach for all was never going to work. See the € for more details...jonnyb said:
To paraphrase some one far more important than myself. The lights are going out across Europe, I just hope we can switch them back in again.
Or more accurately, the lights are going out across Europe due to the inevitable failure of the EU and the Euro which was never going to be viable.Fortunately we will soon be out of it and not dragged into the mess.
don4l said:
I was raised as a staunch republican. The only subject that my national school teacher spoke English in... was English. All other subjects were taught in Gaelic.
I've been able to see for years that the Queen does a fantastic job. She also makes a huge profit for us.
I was really sad when Britannia was sold off. Britannia was a floating sales emporium for Britain, but the lefties were not happy that it was luxuriously appointed.
Well, duh!
That is exactly why foreign leaders were happy to queue up to board her.
It would have only cost £10m to refit her. She would have paid for herself in a couple of weeks.
I remember seeing the Queen quite emotional when it went it was Blair's reminder he is a republican he should have been sent to the Tower ...time for that stillI've been able to see for years that the Queen does a fantastic job. She also makes a huge profit for us.
I was really sad when Britannia was sold off. Britannia was a floating sales emporium for Britain, but the lefties were not happy that it was luxuriously appointed.
Well, duh!
That is exactly why foreign leaders were happy to queue up to board her.
It would have only cost £10m to refit her. She would have paid for herself in a couple of weeks.
jonnyb said:
Really, not to give a reasoned and balanced argument to get your point across?
Do I think the UK currently resembles post WW1 Germany? Of course not. Could it? That remains to be seen, but the near 60% rise in racial hate crimes since Friday is very worrying.
. Do I think the UK currently resembles post WW1 Germany? Of course not. Could it? That remains to be seen, but the near 60% rise in racial hate crimes since Friday is very worrying.
Can I ask where you obtained the 60 % rise figure from.
Sorry guys the queen bit was a dig at the £350m a week claimed by the brexit camp. I'm not advocating getting rid of the Queen, yet.
On another note, I really do think that the good that the EU did has been lost in the general mood music of the right wing press and Tory party propaganda.
The EU could be the greatest nation state on earth, if we did it correctly. Think about our collective strengths, it could be incredible. Socially and economically, together, we're streets ahead of anywhere else in the world. Engineering that would make the Americans look like they were still playing with Lego. A combined health service that would offer the best treatment anywhere in the world. No longer would you have to go to court to get Proton beam therapy in Poland, it would be the norm, and people would be healthier for it. A welfare and work system that looked after the poorest in society while rewarding work. Non of this was pie in the sky stuff. justblook around this great continent of ours and see what we've got.
Sorry I have had a few, and got a bit emotional!
On another note, I really do think that the good that the EU did has been lost in the general mood music of the right wing press and Tory party propaganda.
The EU could be the greatest nation state on earth, if we did it correctly. Think about our collective strengths, it could be incredible. Socially and economically, together, we're streets ahead of anywhere else in the world. Engineering that would make the Americans look like they were still playing with Lego. A combined health service that would offer the best treatment anywhere in the world. No longer would you have to go to court to get Proton beam therapy in Poland, it would be the norm, and people would be healthier for it. A welfare and work system that looked after the poorest in society while rewarding work. Non of this was pie in the sky stuff. justblook around this great continent of ours and see what we've got.
Sorry I have had a few, and got a bit emotional!
gooner1 said:
jonnyb said:
Really, not to give a reasoned and balanced argument to get your point across?
Do I think the UK currently resembles post WW1 Germany? Of course not. Could it? That remains to be seen, but the near 60% rise in racial hate crimes since Friday is very worrying.
. Do I think the UK currently resembles post WW1 Germany? Of course not. Could it? That remains to be seen, but the near 60% rise in racial hate crimes since Friday is very worrying.
Can I ask where you obtained the 60 % rise figure from.
Can't get the damn URL thing to work, but google it. Like I said I have had a few.
Edited by jonnyb on Wednesday 29th June 21:00
Edited by jonnyb on Wednesday 29th June 21:16
jonnyb said:
[url]here|https://www.rt.com/uk/348911-immigrant-racism-hate-britain/[\url]
Can't get the damn URL thing to work, but google it. Like I said I have had a few.
Remove all the stuff between [url] and https and change the back stroke to a forward stroke at the end.Can't get the damn URL thing to work, but google it. Like I said I have had a few.
Edited by jonnyb on Wednesday 29th June 21:00
TB,
I hope so, it has its problems, but it's way too important to leave behind.
For those saying it had time to reform but didn't. Have a think about this. If Merkel said we need reform, would reform happen? Yes it would, yesterday.
So why didn't it happen when we said it? Probably because we have been denigrating the EU for so long that everyone had stopped listening. Would it have been different if we had been the in the heart of the EU project? Of course it would, we wouldn't have been the outsiders that we became, and that ultimately caused us to leave. We could have been running the show instead of sticking 2 fingers up to it. There would have been no question about controlling immigration and the free market because we would be writing the rules.
Instead were left with the scraps off the table, and maybe not even that.
I hope so, it has its problems, but it's way too important to leave behind.
For those saying it had time to reform but didn't. Have a think about this. If Merkel said we need reform, would reform happen? Yes it would, yesterday.
So why didn't it happen when we said it? Probably because we have been denigrating the EU for so long that everyone had stopped listening. Would it have been different if we had been the in the heart of the EU project? Of course it would, we wouldn't have been the outsiders that we became, and that ultimately caused us to leave. We could have been running the show instead of sticking 2 fingers up to it. There would have been no question about controlling immigration and the free market because we would be writing the rules.
Instead were left with the scraps off the table, and maybe not even that.
All that jazz said:
jonnyb said:
[url]here|https://www.rt.com/uk/348911-immigrant-racism-hate-britain/[\url]
Can't get the damn URL thing to work, but google it. Like I said I have had a few.
Remove all the stuff between [url] and https and change the back stroke to a forward stroke at the end.Can't get the damn URL thing to work, but google it. Like I said I have had a few.
Edited by jonnyb on Wednesday 29th June 21:00
jonnyb said:
Sorry guys the queen bit was a dig at the £350m a week claimed by the brexit camp. I'm not advocating getting rid of the Queen, yet.
On another note, I really do think that the good that the EU did has been lost in the general mood music of the right wing press and Tory party propaganda.
The EU could be the greatest nation state on earth, if we did it correctly. Think about our collective strengths, it could be incredible. Socially and economically, together, we're streets ahead of anywhere else in the world. Engineering that would make the Americans look like they were still playing with Lego. A combined health service that would offer the best treatment anywhere in the world. No longer would you have to go to court to get Proton beam therapy in Poland, it would be the norm, and people would be healthier for it. A welfare and work system that looked after the poorest in society while rewarding work. Non of this was pie in the sky stuff. justblook around this great continent of ours and see what we've got.
Sorry I have had a few, and got a bit emotional!
The continent is great. The idea is great if for the right reasons and if executed properly. Unfortunately we know why the organisation exists, what its true purpose is and what the people running it are like. On another note, I really do think that the good that the EU did has been lost in the general mood music of the right wing press and Tory party propaganda.
The EU could be the greatest nation state on earth, if we did it correctly. Think about our collective strengths, it could be incredible. Socially and economically, together, we're streets ahead of anywhere else in the world. Engineering that would make the Americans look like they were still playing with Lego. A combined health service that would offer the best treatment anywhere in the world. No longer would you have to go to court to get Proton beam therapy in Poland, it would be the norm, and people would be healthier for it. A welfare and work system that looked after the poorest in society while rewarding work. Non of this was pie in the sky stuff. justblook around this great continent of ours and see what we've got.
Sorry I have had a few, and got a bit emotional!
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