Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result

[FiF]

The problem is Purple Moonlight old bean, is that whilst you didn't specifically use the words public opinion in conjunction with the word polls, you were the first one to use the words public opinion in connection with influencing Government. I think you're being a bit disingenuous with the denial. But, moving on, if it's the case of public opinion determining action how is the Government to determine what the public opinion is? Polls? Focus groups? Letters to the newspapers? Forum postings? None of these are in any way fully representative to greater or lesser extent.

Actually the best way of gauging public opinion could have been by a referendum. The one that has just been held could have been the perfect opportunity to put the base question, stay or leave, to gauge true public opinion and sort the question once and for all.

The question that remains (pun) is whether it did or not. In my opinion things were tainted by the appalling way that Cameron ran things and tried to fix it by various issues and then told the most outrageous lies. This set the trend and tone of the debate which was mostly pretty abysmal on both sides.

This has resulted in dissatisfaction about the result obtained, some arguments valid, some not. Nevertheless the base decision has been decided, leave.

So the Govt is now between a rock and a hard place. I think I know the way they can resolve it, and it's not the way that certain of the Govt, eg Fox appear to be proposing. But hey it's not my position to resolve it, all can do is keep promoting the way I and others believe is the best path for the future of the UK given the result.

Others may differ in their approach, they still have a right to that opinion, whether they voted, or which way they voted. How they express that opinion is up to the individual and for readers to accept that input or not. Clearly there are some on this thread, no names no packdrill, where, speaking personally, due to what I have perceived as dubious input I will no longer take any notice of anything they say on any subject in the future. Possibly my loss but not going to lose any sleep over it.

[PurpleMoonlight]

FiF said:

Actually the best way of gauging public opinion could have been by a referendum. The one that has just been held could have been the perfect opportunity to put the base question, stay or leave, to gauge true public opinion and sort the question once and for all.

The trouble with the referendum was that the question was binary, in or out. I get why that was, but now implementing the leave result is far from binary and there are a myriad of possibilities that could result under the banner of 'leave'.

I would like to think that the Government will seek to gauge public opinion of what fight for. I accept your point about me possibly intimating a poll to do so though.

[don'tbesilly]

Elysium said:

jsf said:

Opinion piece on this from the LSE https://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/law/news/Craig-5...

There was a review of Royal prerogative in 2007, its worth reading the annex as that lists the prerogatives in place, I think most people are not aware of how many powers the government carries via prerogatives.

http://www.peerage.org/genealogy/royal-prerogative...

It's all basically a sideshow, as either way this case goes it wont alter the final outcome, its interesting to read more about our democracy though.

In other news, I have not seen any reference to proposed redundancies by Arup:

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/home/brexit-fa...

They are directly attributing this to Brexit and, given their exposure to London commercial property development, this seems a fair assessment. Clearly this has a big impact on individuals, but it might be argued that we are only talking about 90 jobs. That ignores the background to this action, which is essentially predicting a slowdown in commercial activity in the city.

Very unfortunate and a sad consequence of the vote if as suggested it was directly attributable to Brexit.

As someone who works in construction the vote was always going to have an impact, but it wouldn't have changed my decision, I've worked in construction all my life, both on site, off site, and now on the supply side, so have seen the good times and experienced the very, very bad side (job loss).

On the bright side, in the Job section of the AJ, there are quite a few opportunities, the highlights being:

216 vacancies for Architects
97 vacancies for Architectural Assistants
98 vacancies for Architectural Technicians

http://www.architectsjournaljobs.com/


One hopes that the unfortunate people who face losing their jobs find another quickly.

This scheme looks exciting, mixed use,so something for everyone

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/afk-submi...

The coffee mug is looking half full, I'll need a top up shortly

[dandarez]

So, the Bliar creature did want the EU President's job.
More's the pity he didn't go for it and get it, Brexit would have really wiped the floor.

Why on earth doesn't he and Campbell go away. A LONG, LONG WAY AWAY!

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tony-blair-co...

[anonymous-user]

dandarez said:

So, the Bliar creature did want the EU President's job.
More's the pity he didn't go for it and get it, Brexit would have really wiped the floor.

Why on earth doesn't he and Campbell go away. A LONG, LONG WAY AWAY!

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tony-blair-co...

No surprise is it? The gravy's much richer on the EU train and Tony was never one to miss a good slurp of free gravy, was he?

[craigjm]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/industry/could-ca...

Just read this and thought I would post it seeing as we are supposed to be a car site

[SilverSixer]

Article 50 legislation comment. Government bringing knife to gunfight:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/29/in-its-...

Interesting to see their poll is still running, now at 51% for Remain vs the three brexit 'options'. Has it been 'gamed' back down do we think?

Also interesting to see brexiteers are so worried that it might not go their way that they are protesting outside Parliament already as if they have lost. They seem to be appealing for the government to defend democracy against Parliamentary Sovereignty. Now, remind me, was it Leave or Remain who were most concerned to return Sovereignty to the UK Parliament? Evidently, it never went away............

Strange times.

[don'tbesilly]

SilverSixer said:

Article 50 legislation comment. Government bringing knife to gunfight:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/29/in-its-...

Interesting to see their poll is still running, now at 51% for Remain vs the three brexit 'options'. Has it been 'gamed' back down do we think?

Also interesting to see brexiteers are so worried that it might not go their way that they are protesting outside Parliament already as if they have lost. They seem to be appealing for the government to defend democracy against Parliamentary Sovereignty. Now, remind me, was it Leave or Remain who were most concerned to return Sovereignty to the UK Parliament? Evidently, it never went away............

Strange times.

I doubt the poll has been gamed down at all, of the 56,100 people who pressed the requisite button it works out at a difference of 1,112 in favour of remain, resounding victory based on such a large number of votes!

I'm not convinced your argument has legs, your average knuckle dragging, illiterate, racist and xenophobic leave voter has only ever seen a copy of the Telegraph when it's wrapped around a piece of cod

[craigjm]

don'tbesilly said:

Your average knuckle dragging, illiterate, racist and xenophobic leave voter has only ever seen a copy of the Telegraph when it's wrapped around a piece of cod

[SilverSixer]

don'tbesilly said:

SilverSixer said:

Article 50 legislation comment. Government bringing knife to gunfight:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/29/in-its-...

Interesting to see their poll is still running, now at 51% for Remain vs the three brexit 'options'. Has it been 'gamed' back down do we think?

Also interesting to see brexiteers are so worried that it might not go their way that they are protesting outside Parliament already as if they have lost. They seem to be appealing for the government to defend democracy against Parliamentary Sovereignty. Now, remind me, was it Leave or Remain who were most concerned to return Sovereignty to the UK Parliament? Evidently, it never went away............

Strange times.

I doubt the poll has been gamed down at all, of the 56,100 people who pressed the requisite button it works out at a difference of 1,112 in favour of remain, resounding victory based on such a large number of votes!

I'm not convinced your argument has legs, your average knuckle dragging, illiterate, racist and xenophobic leave voter has only ever seen a copy of the Telegraph when it's wrapped around a piece of cod

Any thoughts on the court case? That was kind of the main point of my post.

[alfie2244]

don'tbesilly said:

I'm not convinced your argument has legs, your average knuckle dragging, illiterate, racist and xenophobic leave voter has only ever seen a copy of the Telegraph when it's wrapped around a piece of cod

Don't think EU regs allow the use of "newspaper" for such purposes these days.I use the term newspaper loosely

Just think - take back control of our fishing and fishwrapping - can't be bad.

[don'tbesilly]

SilverSixer said:

don'tbesilly said:

SilverSixer said:

Article 50 legislation comment. Government bringing knife to gunfight:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/29/in-its-...

Interesting to see their poll is still running, now at 51% for Remain vs the three brexit 'options'. Has it been 'gamed' back down do we think?

Also interesting to see brexiteers are so worried that it might not go their way that they are protesting outside Parliament already as if they have lost. They seem to be appealing for the government to defend democracy against Parliamentary Sovereignty. Now, remind me, was it Leave or Remain who were most concerned to return Sovereignty to the UK Parliament? Evidently, it never went away............

Strange times.

I doubt the poll has been gamed down at all, of the 56,100 people who pressed the requisite button it works out at a difference of 1,112 in favour of remain, resounding victory based on such a large number of votes!

I'm not convinced your argument has legs, your average knuckle dragging, illiterate, racist and xenophobic leave voter has only ever seen a copy of the Telegraph when it's wrapped around a piece of cod

Any thoughts on the court case? That was kind of the main point of my post.

Not really no, it won't change the end result, it might achieve some point scoring though.

If I had to make a point, I would say it's a waste of taxpayers money that could have been spent on a more worthwhile need/cause, we haven't got the 350m back yet from leaving the EU, the money now being wasted could have gone there (NHS) instead, to tide them over in the interim, a mini sub if you like

You obviously think the opposite and the court case will change things, so crack on.

[SilverSixer]

don'tbesilly said:

SilverSixer said:

don'tbesilly said:

SilverSixer said:

Article 50 legislation comment. Government bringing knife to gunfight:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/29/in-its-...

Interesting to see their poll is still running, now at 51% for Remain vs the three brexit 'options'. Has it been 'gamed' back down do we think?

Also interesting to see brexiteers are so worried that it might not go their way that they are protesting outside Parliament already as if they have lost. They seem to be appealing for the government to defend democracy against Parliamentary Sovereignty. Now, remind me, was it Leave or Remain who were most concerned to return Sovereignty to the UK Parliament? Evidently, it never went away............

Strange times.

I doubt the poll has been gamed down at all, of the 56,100 people who pressed the requisite button it works out at a difference of 1,112 in favour of remain, resounding victory based on such a large number of votes!

I'm not convinced your argument has legs, your average knuckle dragging, illiterate, racist and xenophobic leave voter has only ever seen a copy of the Telegraph when it's wrapped around a piece of cod

Any thoughts on the court case? That was kind of the main point of my post.

Not really no, it won't change the end result, it might achieve some point scoring though.

If I had to make a point, I would say it's a waste of taxpayers money that could have been spent on a more worthwhile need/cause, we haven't got the 350m back yet from leaving the EU, the money now being wasted could have gone there (NHS) instead, to tide them over in the interim, a mini sub if you like

You obviously think the opposite and the court case will change things, so crack on.

I don't think anything of the sort, I find it a fascinating case which could have major repercussions for our constitution and governance. I'm interested in other people's thoughts on it, hence bringing it up.

Just because I'm an obvious remainer, people on here keep persisting to put words in my mouth and thoughts in my head which don't exist, oh he must be trying to point score, all that rubbish.

I could quite easily extrapolate from your post that obviously you bought the £350m NHS cobblers, but that would be much the same thing.

[don'tbesilly]

alfie2244 said:

don'tbesilly said:

I'm not convinced your argument has legs, your average knuckle dragging, illiterate, racist and xenophobic leave voter has only ever seen a copy of the Telegraph when it's wrapped around a piece of cod

Don't think EU regs allow the use of "newspaper" for such purposes these days.I use the term newspaper loosely

Just think - take back control of our fishing and fishwrapping - can't be bad.

In the Royal Times no less,quite apt for the Royal Prerogative

[B'stard Child]

SilverSixer said:

Article 50 legislation comment. Government bringing knife to gunfight:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/29/in-its-...

I didn't really see the knife to a gun fight reference TBH - almost headline over substance

SilverSixer said:

Interesting to see their poll is still running, now at 51% for Remain vs the three brexit 'options'. Has it been 'gamed' back down do we think?

I always vote remain on online polls

It's the more fun option after the referendum

SilverSixer said:

Also interesting to see brexiteers are so worried that it might not go their way that they are protesting outside Parliament already as if they have lost. They seem to be appealing for the government to defend democracy against Parliamentary Sovereignty. Now, remind me, was it Leave or Remain who were most concerned to return Sovereignty to the UK Parliament? Evidently, it never went away............

Strange times.

It's like the petition to re-do the referendum that got 8 mill signatures (well 4 million ish eventually

The shouts of it needs to be a "quantified" percentage

It's all just background noise

I hope they are going to try and negotiate for a deal that comes as close as possible to access to the free market without FMOL (or with control over FMOL)

It's going to be very interesting

[don'tbesilly]

SilverSixer said:

don'tbesilly said:

SilverSixer said:

don'tbesilly said:

SilverSixer said:

Article 50 legislation comment. Government bringing knife to gunfight:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/29/in-its-...

Interesting to see their poll is still running, now at 51% for Remain vs the three brexit 'options'. Has it been 'gamed' back down do we think?

Also interesting to see brexiteers are so worried that it might not go their way that they are protesting outside Parliament already as if they have lost. They seem to be appealing for the government to defend democracy against Parliamentary Sovereignty. Now, remind me, was it Leave or Remain who were most concerned to return Sovereignty to the UK Parliament? Evidently, it never went away............

Strange times.

I doubt the poll has been gamed down at all, of the 56,100 people who pressed the requisite button it works out at a difference of 1,112 in favour of remain, resounding victory based on such a large number of votes!

I'm not convinced your argument has legs, your average knuckle dragging, illiterate, racist and xenophobic leave voter has only ever seen a copy of the Telegraph when it's wrapped around a piece of cod

Any thoughts on the court case? That was kind of the main point of my post.

Not really no, it won't change the end result, it might achieve some point scoring though.

If I had to make a point, I would say it's a waste of taxpayers money that could have been spent on a more worthwhile need/cause, we haven't got the 350m back yet from leaving the EU, the money now being wasted could have gone there (NHS) instead, to tide them over in the interim, a mini sub if you like

You obviously think the opposite and the court case will change things, so crack on.

I don't think anything of the sort, I find it a fascinating case which could have major repercussions for our constitution and governance. I'm interested in other people's thoughts on it, hence bringing it up.

Just because I'm an obvious remainer, people on here keep persisting to put words in my mouth and thoughts in my head which don't exist, oh he must be trying to point score, all that rubbish.

I could quite easily extrapolate from your post that obviously you bought the £350m NHS cobblers, but that would be much the same thing.

Fair enough, by the way I wasn't suggesting it was YOU that was point scoring at all, just to make that clear.
I was referring to the elite and monied in society, I guess that could be you though

[SilverSixer]

B'stard Child said:

I hope.........

Good job. Hope's just about all anyone has at the moment.

Anyway, it's Friday, so

[anonymous-user]

SilverSixer said:

Article 50 legislation comment. Government bringing knife to gunfight:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/29/in-its-...

Interesting to see their poll is still running, now at 51% for Remain vs the three brexit 'options'. Has it been 'gamed' back down do we think?

Also interesting to see brexiteers are so worried that it might not go their way that they are protesting outside Parliament already as if they have lost. They seem to be appealing for the government to defend democracy against Parliamentary Sovereignty. Now, remind me, was it Leave or Remain who were most concerned to return Sovereignty to the UK Parliament? Evidently, it never went away............

Strange times.

That article is very funny. And on the knife to a gunfight point, bang on. More like butter knife, in fact. Wright's only saving grace may be that the SC will likely make its own mind up based on the written filings and largely irrespective of what the advocates say on the day.


ETA: if one were to be particularly mischievous, one might speculate that bringing such an relatively inexperienced AG to lead the Govt's team against one of the best barristers of his generation betrays a contentedness on the Govt's side to lose this case, and have the whole A50 question put to the HoC, notwithstanding the strong public pronouncements to the contrary...

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 30th September 16:30

[B'stard Child]

SilverSixer said:

B'stard Child said:

I hope.........

Good job. Hope's just about all anyone has at the moment.

Well I've always been a glass half full guy so best to be positive in these interesting times

SilverSixer said:

Anyway, it's Friday, so

It is indeed

Can't have too many tonight I'm back to fixing the garage roof again this weekend - hangover and heights aren't a good combination

[SilverSixer]

B'stard Child said:

It is indeed

Can't have too many tonight I'm back to fixing the garage roof again this weekend - hangover and heights aren't a good combination

I shall mostly be avoiding oil filters this weekend. Perhaps a gig tonight. Nice.