Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result

[Mrr T]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Makes no difference if the leave campaign won by a single solitary vote, the overall result was that the UK voted to leave the EU. Or do you support the EU ploy, of making people vote again, and again, and again until they come up with answer `you' wanted?

You clearly also do not understand democracy. The referendum was advisory and binary. Many on the leave team now say FMOL was a fundermental part of the vote so any leave option which retains it is unacceptable. However, that was not the question on the ballot.
So are we likely to leave? Yes. Might there be a second vote on the terms of leave? Maybe. Are there circumstances in which we will not leave? Yes.

I do wonder what will happen if on a second vote the options are. Leave on WTO terms with no financial services passporting and no FMOL but taxes have to rise sharply to make up the costs. Or remain and no tax rises.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Mrr T said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Makes no difference if the leave campaign won by a single solitary vote, the overall result was that the UK voted to leave the EU. Or do you support the EU ploy, of making people vote again, and again, and again until they come up with answer `you' wanted?

You clearly also do not understand democracy. The referendum was advisory and binary. Many on the leave team now say FMOL was a fundermental part of the vote so any leave option which retains it is unacceptable. However, that was not the question on the ballot.
So are we likely to leave? Yes. Might there be a second vote on the terms of leave? Maybe. Are there circumstances in which we will not leave? Yes.

I do wonder what will happen if on a second vote the options are. Leave on WTO terms with no financial services passporting and no FMOL but taxes have to rise sharply to make up the costs. Or remain and no tax rises.

If the UK has a second referendum on Brexit, the voting majority in the UK will insist on a third, then the bitter sulking remainers will insist on a fourth, and so on.

[Timmy40]

Mrr T said:

I do wonder what will happen if on a second vote the options are. Leave on WTO terms with no financial services passporting and no FMOL but taxes have to rise sharply to make up the costs. Or remain and no tax rises.

There is no need to ask that question. It has already been asked. George Osborne was quite clear that a Leave vote would result in sharp tax rises, I believe 10% on income tax was the figure used. It was a central plank of the Remain campaign.

The public have already given their answer.

[Mrr T]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Mrr T said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Makes no difference if the leave campaign won by a single solitary vote, the overall result was that the UK voted to leave the EU. Or do you support the EU ploy, of making people vote again, and again, and again until they come up with answer `you' wanted?

You clearly also do not understand democracy. The referendum was advisory and binary. Many on the leave team now say FMOL was a fundermental part of the vote so any leave option which retains it is unacceptable. However, that was not the question on the ballot.
So are we likely to leave? Yes. Might there be a second vote on the terms of leave? Maybe. Are there circumstances in which we will not leave? Yes.

I do wonder what will happen if on a second vote the options are. Leave on WTO terms with no financial services passporting and no FMOL but taxes have to rise sharply to make up the costs. Or remain and no tax rises.

If the UK has a second referendum on Brexit, the voting majority in the UK will insist on a third, then the bitter sulking remainers will insist on a fourth, and so on.

That's democracy for you.

[Mrr T]

Timmy40 said:

Mrr T said:

I do wonder what will happen if on a second vote the options are. Leave on WTO terms with no financial services passporting and no FMOL but taxes have to rise sharply to make up the costs. Or remain and no tax rises.

There is no need to ask that question. It has already been asked. George Osborne was quite clear that a Leave vote would result in sharp tax rises, I believe 10% on income tax was the figure used. It was a central plank of the Remain campaign.

The public have already given their answer.

Amusing answer since all the leave team said the claim was rubbish. So no I do not think the question has been answered.

[FiF]

Mrr T said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Makes no difference if the leave campaign won by a single solitary vote, the overall result was that the UK voted to leave the EU. Or do you support the EU ploy, of making people vote again, and again, and again until they come up with answer `you' wanted?

You clearly also do not understand democracy. The referendum was advisory and binary. Many on the leave team now say FMOL was a fundermental part of the vote so any leave option which retains it is unacceptable. However, that was not the question on the ballot.
So are we likely to leave? Yes. Might there be a second vote on the terms of leave? Maybe. Are there circumstances in which we will not leave? Yes.

I do wonder what will happen if on a second vote the options are. Leave on WTO terms with no financial services passporting and no FMOL but taxes have to rise sharply to make up the costs. Or remain and no tax rises.

Bit in bold, do they?

Not according to that survey by Adam Smith Institute, and several others too.

Depends what you mean by many, certainly NOT a majority aiui.

It's clear that whatever exit method results it will need compromises on both sides. To have something that pleases every faction and everything that every single voter desired is impossible and unrealistic. It always was, and always will be. Doesn’t mean we, collectively as a nation, should not try to obtain the best deal for the nation, in line with the general direction indicated by the result, despite that deal not being everything we individually hoped for. It's what compromise entails.

[anonymous-user]

Elysium said:

jsf said:

So are you saying that unlike 2008 in southern Europe, the worst that will happen in London, in your opinion because of Brexit, is profits potentially wont be as high as they may have been?

No, as it currently stands developers may make heavy losses on projects if they do not have a a pre-sale. Values are reducing and this could easily get to a point where there is no profit left. At that point businesses may fold. But it depends on their exposure.

In most cases large London projects will have agreed funding and developers / contractors will have legal obligations to complete. Landlords / property funds will lose money as these will not lease up quickly enough.

The big problem is future schemes, which will be delayed until the market outlook improves. This means that builders are competing over a reduced pool of projects. If anything material prices are increasing, so they will take a cut in margin and try to push the pain down the supply chain. That will then impact specialist subcontractors.

Ultimately, a loss of profit and value at the top of the food chain will lead to tradesmen / labour earning less at the bottom. Less prepared contractors will fold and people will potentially be laid off.

Edited by Elysium on Tuesday 26th July 07:41

OK, thanks. I thought I saw a glimmer of light in your usual doom, sadly not. Carry on.

[Timmy40]

Mrr T said:

Timmy40 said:

Mrr T said:

I do wonder what will happen if on a second vote the options are. Leave on WTO terms with no financial services passporting and no FMOL but taxes have to rise sharply to make up the costs. Or remain and no tax rises.

There is no need to ask that question. It has already been asked. George Osborne was quite clear that a Leave vote would result in sharp tax rises, I believe 10% on income tax was the figure used. It was a central plank of the Remain campaign.

The public have already given their answer.

Amusing answer since all the leave team said the claim was rubbish. So no I do not think the question has been answered.

Regardless of what the Leave campaign said about George Osborne/ Treasury reports on the impact of BREXIT, the fact is that the scenario of large tax rises was put to the public and they accepted that and the majority who cast a vote voted leave.

You could just as well say if the question was asked again people wouldn't believe that taxes would really rise, if they didn't last time, why would they now?

Either way the question has already been asked and answered. Sorry you don't like the answer, but that doesn't change it.

[Mrr T]

FiF said:

Mrr T said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Makes no difference if the leave campaign won by a single solitary vote, the overall result was that the UK voted to leave the EU. Or do you support the EU ploy, of making people vote again, and again, and again until they come up with answer `you' wanted?

You clearly also do not understand democracy. The referendum was advisory and binary. Many on the leave team now say FMOL was a fundermental part of the vote so any leave option which retains it is unacceptable. However, that was not the question on the ballot.
So are we likely to leave? Yes. Might there be a second vote on the terms of leave? Maybe. Are there circumstances in which we will not leave? Yes.

I do wonder what will happen if on a second vote the options are. Leave on WTO terms with no financial services passporting and no FMOL but taxes have to rise sharply to make up the costs. Or remain and no tax rises.

Bit in bold, do they?

Not according to that survey by Adam Smith Institute, and several others too.

Depends what you mean by many, certainly NOT a majority aiui.

It's clear that whatever exit method results it will need compromises on both sides. To have something that pleases every faction and everything that every single voter desired is impossible and unrealistic. It always was, and always will be. Doesn’t mean we, collectively as a nation, should not try to obtain the best deal for the nation, in line with the general direction indicated by the result, despite that deal not being everything we individually hoped for. It's what compromise entails.

When I say many I mean many on here and many on the right of the conservative party. Not sure of the percentages. If the ASI have any survey data I could not see it.

I see they do support a flexor style exit. Which as I have often posted I support.

[Jockman]

Mrr T said:

FiF said:

Mrr T said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Makes no difference if the leave campaign won by a single solitary vote, the overall result was that the UK voted to leave the EU. Or do you support the EU ploy, of making people vote again, and again, and again until they come up with answer `you' wanted?

You clearly also do not understand democracy. The referendum was advisory and binary. Many on the leave team now say FMOL was a fundermental part of the vote so any leave option which retains it is unacceptable. However, that was not the question on the ballot.
So are we likely to leave? Yes. Might there be a second vote on the terms of leave? Maybe. Are there circumstances in which we will not leave? Yes.

I do wonder what will happen if on a second vote the options are. Leave on WTO terms with no financial services passporting and no FMOL but taxes have to rise sharply to make up the costs. Or remain and no tax rises.

Bit in bold, do they?

Not according to that survey by Adam Smith Institute, and several others too.

Depends what you mean by many, certainly NOT a majority aiui.

It's clear that whatever exit method results it will need compromises on both sides. To have something that pleases every faction and everything that every single voter desired is impossible and unrealistic. It always was, and always will be. Doesn’t mean we, collectively as a nation, should not try to obtain the best deal for the nation, in line with the general direction indicated by the result, despite that deal not being everything we individually hoped for. It's what compromise entails.

When I say many I mean many on here and many on the right of the conservative party. Not sure of the percentages. If the ASI have any survey data I could not see it.

I see they do support a flexor style exit. Which as I have often posted I support.

I know there were figures of 33% on Immigration as the main determinant - is this what you mean?

[jjlynn27]

Timmy40 said:

There is no need to ask that question. It has already been asked. George Osborne was quite clear that a Leave vote would result in sharp tax rises, I believe 10% on income tax was the figure used. It was a central plank of the Remain campaign.

The public have already given their answer.

Do you have link for 10% income tax rise?

No comment on China dumping steel from previous page?

[///ajd]

Jockman said:

I know there were figures of 33% on Immigration as the main determinant - is this what you mean?

33% said immigration was their main driver for leave? Where is this stat from?

[jjlynn27]

FiF said:

Bit in bold, do they?

Not according to that survey by Adam Smith Institute, and several others too.

Depends what you mean by many, certainly NOT a majority aiui.

It's clear that whatever exit method results it will need compromises on both sides. To have something that pleases every faction and everything that every single voter desired is impossible and unrealistic. It always was, and always will be. Doesn’t mean we, collectively as a nation, should not try to obtain the best deal for the nation, in line with the general direction indicated by the result, despite that deal not being everything we individually hoped for. It's what compromise entails.

You are right it will require compromise all over the place. I think that significant majority on both sides will be unhappy with whatever course is taken.

[Jockman]

///ajd said:

Jockman said:

I know there were figures of 33% on Immigration as the main determinant - is this what you mean?

33% said immigration was their main driver for leave? Where is this stat from?

JJ

[Timmy40]

jjlynn27 said:

Timmy40 said:

There is no need to ask that question. It has already been asked. George Osborne was quite clear that a Leave vote would result in sharp tax rises, I believe 10% on income tax was the figure used. It was a central plank of the Remain campaign.

The public have already given their answer.

Do you have link for 10% income tax rise?

No comment on China dumping steel from previous page?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-george-osborne-warns-of-massive-tax-hikes-if-britain-leaves-the-eu-a3271981.html

[jjlynn27]

Timmy40 said:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-geo...

Thanks. Talk about over-egging. He did have to go.

[Timmy40]

jjlynn27 said:

Timmy40 said:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-geo...

Thanks. Talk about over-egging. He did have to go.

They completely over egged it, and the problem is because they took every Treasury/ OECD/ BoE Forecast and opted for the very worst scenario for each, in the event of a BREXIT even the worst outcome has already been predicted by Remain, so they've left themselves with no leeway to argue that things are worse than people who voted Leave expected or had been warned.

[FiF]

Jockman said:

Mrr T said:

FiF said:

Mrr T said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Makes no difference if the leave campaign won by a single solitary vote, the overall result was that the UK voted to leave the EU. Or do you support the EU ploy, of making people vote again, and again, and again until they come up with answer `you' wanted?

You clearly also do not understand democracy. The referendum was advisory and binary. Many on the leave team now say FMOL was a fundermental part of the vote so any leave option which retains it is unacceptable. However, that was not the question on the ballot.
So are we likely to leave? Yes. Might there be a second vote on the terms of leave? Maybe. Are there circumstances in which we will not leave? Yes.

I do wonder what will happen if on a second vote the options are. Leave on WTO terms with no financial services passporting and no FMOL but taxes have to rise sharply to make up the costs. Or remain and no tax rises.

Bit in bold, do they?

Not according to that survey by Adam Smith Institute, and several others too.

Depends what you mean by many, certainly NOT a majority aiui.

It's clear that whatever exit method results it will need compromises on both sides. To have something that pleases every faction and everything that every single voter desired is impossible and unrealistic. It always was, and always will be. Doesn’t mean we, collectively as a nation, should not try to obtain the best deal for the nation, in line with the general direction indicated by the result, despite that deal not being everything we individually hoped for. It's what compromise entails.

When I say many I mean many on here and many on the right of the conservative party. Not sure of the percentages. If the ASI have any survey data I could not see it.

I see they do support a flexor style exit. Which as I have often posted I support.

I know there were figures of 33% on Immigration as the main determinant - is this what you mean?

This was written prior to the vote link

Still applicable? Good question, but it's an indicator at minimum.

One snapshot from the survey.



And consider that almost 80% of previous Remainers support this option it's the one option that can really bring this nation together, AND supply a solution in line with the referendum result wishes,.

[///ajd]

FiF said:

This was written prior to the vote link

Still applicable? Good question, but it's an indicator at minimum.

One snapshot from the survey.



And consider that almost 80% of previous Remainers support this option it's the one option that can really bring this nation together, AND supply a solution in line with the referendum result wishes,.

Really? I'm not so sure many remainers will be happy with a EFTA norway option.

The trouble with it is that it is just like being in the EU, paying slightly less but with a lot less influence.

Many remainers, if presented with Norway will quite rightly say "the remainers didn't want it 48%, and alot of shouty brexiters didn't want it either (33% pushing for immigration). This is the perfect recipe for questioning the outcome.

Skidding just across the line on the back of some slimey "breaking point" rhetoric, then saying "oh we didn't mean all that, shall we leave and do a norway anyway?" is far enough from being democratic to render the whole thing a poor joke.

[turbobloke]

///ajd said:

I'm not so sure many remainers will be happy with a EFTA norway option.

Happiness of remainers and leavers is neither here nor there, happily.

Negotiators looking for the best deal won't be holding happiness parties to monitor attendance.