Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result

[rs1952]

alfie2244 said:

Hence why I voted OUT now........for their benefit not mine........if we stayed in there would not (IMO) been much of a UK left to take back control over.

I'm having my ashes sprinkled in the Rivor Avon so they can't jump on my grave if wrong.

The could always chuck rocks in the river

[don4l]

Ghibli said:

The petition for a second referendum was set up by a leave voter.

Yeah... right.

Your post just demonstrates how incredibly gullible you remainers are.

Unbelieveable.

[anonymous-user]

don4l said:

Ghibli said:

The petition for a second referendum was set up by a leave voter.

Yeah... right.

Your post just demonstrates how incredibly gullible you remainers are.

Unbelieveable.

Lol

I can see you haven't checked.

Unbelivable

[sidicks]

don4l said:

Yeah... right.

Your post just demonstrates how incredibly gullible you remainers are.

Unbelieveable

Unbelievable that you don't bother to check your facts before posting?

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/the-petition-for-a-s...

[Gary C]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-how-does-arti...

Interesting So it would make a great deal of sense to negotiate then have a second referendum to see if we agree with the deal.

Edited by Gary C on Thursday 25th August 21:20

Edited by Gary C on Thursday 25th August 21:21

[Gary C]

Ghibli said:

don4l said:

Ghibli said:

The petition for a second referendum was set up by a leave voter.

Yeah... right.

Your post just demonstrates how incredibly gullible you remainers are.

Unbelieveable.

Lol

I can see you haven't checked.

Unbelivable

You got him there

[CaptainSlow]

Ghibli said:

It wouldn't be the remainers, it would be 27 countries in the EU.

Had it been Germany, I'm guessing the UK would be willing to listen to their concerns.

You can guess again and be less naive. It wouldn't happen. Did the 27 listen to the concerns of the Dutch majority that said no to an EU constitution or did they rename it and implement anyway?

[Jockman]

Gary C said:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-how-does-arti...

Intersting. So it would make a great deal of sense to negotiate then have a second referendum to see if we agree with the deal.

That is what Owen Smith intends doing.

Once he beats Corbyn in the Leadership Election.

Then beats May in the 2020 General Election.

[Gary C]

Jockman said:

Gary C said:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-how-does-arti...

Intersting. So it would make a great deal of sense to negotiate then have a second referendum to see if we agree with the deal.

That is what Owen Smith intends doing.

Once he beats Corbyn in the Leadership Election.

Then beats May in the 2020 General Election.

But we could have left by 2020, and there are no guarantees that Owen could win given the state of the Labour Party.

I do wonder about a50 phrase

"the union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal"

the "and conclude" seems to indicate that once started, it shal finish, but is that only the negotiations to the process?

Can see the lawyers having a field day over the interpretation.

Still, he is talking some sense. I really would like a vote on the deal, and I could see it being a big vote winner in a general.

[Jockman]

Gary C said:

Jockman said:

Gary C said:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-how-does-arti...

Intersting. So it would make a great deal of sense to negotiate then have a second referendum to see if we agree with the deal.

That is what Owen Smith intends doing.

Once he beats Corbyn in the Leadership Election.

Then beats May in the 2020 General Election.

But we could have left by 2020, and there are no guarantees that Owen could win given the state of the Labour Party.

I do wonder about a50 phrase

"the union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal"

the "and conclude" seems to indicate that once started, it shal finish, but is that only the negotiations to the process?

Can see the lawyers having a field day over the interpretation.

The scenario above is unlikely to play out but remember 63% of Labour Voters voted to Remain - it will be an interesting Leadership election.

Nothing alarming in the a50 terminology. It may not even be served for another year and I would imagine the first point on the agenda would be to agree on an extension.

[CaptainSlow]

It's open to abuse. The Government intentionally negotiates a poor deal that would never win a second referendum despite telling the electorate it was the best they could do, so the will of the people is ignored.

[Jockman]

Gary C said:

Still, he is talking some sense. I really would like a vote on the deal, and I could see it being a big vote winner in a general.

42% of Tory Voters voted to Remain. I can't see them jumping ship to support a labour Govt elect.

[Gary C]

As I edited, I would like a vote on the acceptability of the agreement, but I also note the comment above how it could be manipulated.

[Gary C]

Jockman said:

Gary C said:

Still, he is talking some sense. I really would like a vote on the deal, and I could see it being a big vote winner in a general.

42% of Tory Voters voted to Remain. I can't see them jumping ship to support a labour Govt elect.

Enough did in the 90's, for far less.

Will be interesting.

BTW, I have not stated if I'm an in or an out as I'm on the fence but leaving worries me about as much as staying. Seeing the deal is important.

[paulrockliffe]

Gary C said:

paulrockliffe said:

///ajd said:

But a good proportion of 48% think the whole thing is a cringeworthy shambles anyway

I know loads of people that voted to remain that weren't bothered in the slightest that the vote was to leave as they were very soft remainers. They mostly voted remain because of the worry over economic armageddon, which they can now see hasn't happened.

I think its a bit early to judge the long term effect on the economy, given we haven't even left yet.

Interesting pitches by the labour leadership challenger, promising another vote after the deal to decide to stay or go, even though article 50 does not permit us to do that.

You miss the point. We were told exactly what would have happened by now and that hasn't happened. That we know that all that stuff was wrong will mean soft remainders switching to leave. That is simple logic.

What you say is correct, but misses the point.

[Gary C]

paulrockliffe said:

Gary C said:

paulrockliffe said:

///ajd said:

But a good proportion of 48% think the whole thing is a cringeworthy shambles anyway

I know loads of people that voted to remain that weren't bothered in the slightest that the vote was to leave as they were very soft remainers. They mostly voted remain because of the worry over economic armageddon, which they can now see hasn't happened.

I think its a bit early to judge the long term effect on the economy, given we haven't even left yet.

Interesting pitches by the labour leadership challenger, promising another vote after the deal to decide to stay or go, even though article 50 does not permit us to do that.

You miss the point. We were told exactly what would have happened by now and that hasn't happened. That we know that all that stuff was wrong will mean soft remainders switching to leave. That is simple logic.

What you say is correct, but misses the point.

Do I ?
Maybe I am

We were told lots of things during the campaign, some of it (most!) conflicting.

Do we really know that all the remains doomsaying was wrong ?

Either way, my point is, we have voted to go, but even now we don't really know what it means, why not give us the final say once we have a better idea. And the answer to that is, it could be easily manipulated.

Does anyone really know what's going to happen.

Maybe we should just get on with it

[///ajd]

Gary C said:

Jockman said:

Gary C said:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-how-does-arti...

Intersting. So it would make a great deal of sense to negotiate then have a second referendum to see if we agree with the deal.

That is what Owen Smith intends doing.

Once he beats Corbyn in the Leadership Election.

Then beats May in the 2020 General Election.

But we could have left by 2020, and there are no guarantees that Owen could win given the state of the Labour Party.

I do wonder about a50 phrase

"the union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal"

the "and conclude" seems to indicate that once started, it shal finish, but is that only the negotiations to the process?

Can see the lawyers having a field day over the interpretation.

Still, he is talking some sense. I really would like a vote on the deal, and I could see it being a big vote winner in a general.

There is a lot of sense in a vote on the actual deal.

We'll either have
A - brexit dream - a big chunk of £350m to spend, barrier free SM free access, inc protection of over our 10% GDP banking sector, control over immigration with EU, and all other things brexit promised.
B - brexit light, still spending good chunk of £350m for barrier free SM access, limited extra control of SM if any, no influence in direction of EU banking sector.
C - brexit nightmare, no clear SM access, poss tariffs, controo of immigration.

If put to a vote, A might get a bigger swing than 52/48 for leave.

C might well reverse the decision due to economic impact and B might well be the same swing to remain if many feel let down by the outcome.

Seems a perfectly democratic way to address the lack of a plan, the lies and whats best for the UK.

Interesting that Lord Sainsbury is hoping that May wlll act carefully to ensure we don't actually leave as he considers leaving the SM would be a disaster for the UK.

[Ridgemont]

///ajd said:

Gary C said:

Jockman said:

Gary C said:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-how-does-arti...

Intersting. So it would make a great deal of sense to negotiate then have a second referendum to see if we agree with the deal.

That is what Owen Smith intends doing.

Once he beats Corbyn in the Leadership Election.

Then beats May in the 2020 General Election.

But we could have left by 2020, and there are no guarantees that Owen could win given the state of the Labour Party.

I do wonder about a50 phrase

"the union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal"

the "and conclude" seems to indicate that once started, it shal finish, but is that only the negotiations to the process?

Can see the lawyers having a field day over the interpretation.

Still, he is talking some sense. I really would like a vote on the deal, and I could see it being a big vote winner in a general.

There is a lot of sense in a vote on the actual deal.

We'll either have
A - brexit dream - a big chunk of £350m to spend, barrier free SM free access, inc protection of over our 10% GDP banking sector, control over immigration with EU, and all other things brexit promised.
B - brexit light, still spending good chunk of £350m for barrier free SM access, limited extra control of SM if any, no influence in direction of EU banking sector.
C - brexit nightmare, no clear SM access, poss tariffs, controo of immigration.

If put to a vote, A might get a bigger swing than 52/48 for leave.

C might well reverse the decision due to economic impact and B might well be the same swing to remain if many feel let down by the outcome.

Seems a perfectly democratic way to address the lack of a plan, the lies and whats best for the UK.

Interesting that Lord Sainsbury is hoping that May wlll act carefully to ensure we don't actually leave as he considers leaving the SM would be a disaster for the UK.

Yes. It may make a lot of sense for a vote on the actual offer, if you had indeed lost the original ref. For the leavers? Notsomuch. Nothing there for the people who actually voted out apart from a whole load of agro and back pedalling to please a bunch of people who don't want to leave anyway.

No thanks. Next!

[///ajd]

Ridgemont said:

Yes. It may make a lot of sense for a vote on the actual offer, if you had indeed lost the original ref. For the leavers? Notsomuch. Nothing there for the people who actually voted out apart from a whole load of agro and back pedalling to please a bunch of people who don't want to leave anyway.

No thanks. Next!

I don't really understand the "leave at any cost" mindset - do you think all 52% voted this way?

If so you'd be right, but there seems a good chance the "leave vote" might dip under 50% if presented with B or C - which are of course poor outcomes for the UK.

[PurpleMoonlight]

There won't be another vote on the deal, and besides it is far from certain that we have the right to back out of A50 once invoked.