Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result

[Tycho]

fooby said:

Robertj21a said:

I guess there would never have been so much upset in the UK, let alone the need for a Referendum, had the EU shown any great enthusiasm for significant change over many years.

It's a bloody shame it came to this, but hopefully it'll trigger something. The breakup of the EU is the last thing the world needs right now.

And I'm sure there are Brexxiters with good reason for wanting to leave, but not one I've personally spoken to (poorer areas of Newcastle) has had any reason other than borderline racism or a protest vote. Not even going to touch the subject of "project fear". Both sides were equally guilty of that.

The EU was not willing to change when we said we would have a referendum so there is no way it would change if we stayed. How can you not see that? Camerons entire campaign was based on him promising change from within and this was explicitly shown to be a lie by the president of the EU when he said there will be no reform.

How can you still believe that this organisation is capable and fit to run huge parts of Europe and potentially the head of a unified Europe? It is the political version of FIFA.

If the EU changed it stance and went back to a purely trade based entity then I would be up for it but the way it has trampled Greece by saddling it with a debt it can never repay and the way it has treated the UK with contempt for wanting changes to the organisation makes me believe that it is beyond help.

The EU should have a 2 tier membership for those who want to give away their sovereignty and those who don't.

[coanda_2013]

Sorry but I haven't had the chance to read all of the stuff argued on PH. Just wondered if there's been any discussion about the experiences of the Swiss stand off with the EU and the results of the 2014 Swiss referendum on immigration controls and its significance for Brexit?

[Elysium]

fooby said:

don't have to accept it one bit, just as I wouldn't accept it if a political party I'd voted for (or hadn't) tells outright lies (let alone won with a 6% margin). I even voted tory, not because it would benefit me in the slightest, quite the opposite, but because i genuinely believed they would be better in the long run.

I do care about this country, but I also see myself as an EU citizen equally and care about the UK just as much as I do the bigger picture. Hopefully us leaving can kick the EU into action and get their act together before more countries follow.

Sorry if I've offended anyone, it just worries me how backwards thinking some brexiters are. "Being in the EU is a struggle sometimes, best turn our backs and go it alone".

The leave campaign would not have accepted a narrow win for remain. Farage would have continued to act as an MEP without any intention of fulfilling the requirements of that role.

Why should anyone have to accept a referendum result, which cannot be acted upon without severe financial hardship. Particularly as the majority of those voting were not aware of the implications of that decision, or that the campaign promises were fictional or that the campaign leaders had no plan.

As it stands, the lead campaign has not accepted a winning result, having already decided to back down and avoid any immediate action that would lead to us leaving the EU.

[jshell]

Elysium said:

fooby said:

don't have to accept it one bit, just as I wouldn't accept it if a political party I'd voted for (or hadn't) tells outright lies (let alone won with a 6% margin). I even voted tory, not because it would benefit me in the slightest, quite the opposite, but because i genuinely believed they would be better in the long run.

I do care about this country, but I also see myself as an EU citizen equally and care about the UK just as much as I do the bigger picture. Hopefully us leaving can kick the EU into action and get their act together before more countries follow.

Sorry if I've offended anyone, it just worries me how backwards thinking some brexiters are. "Being in the EU is a struggle sometimes, best turn our backs and go it alone".

The leave campaign would not have accepted a narrow win for remain. Farage would have continued to act as an MEP without any intention of fulfilling the requirements of that role.

Why should anyone have to accept a referendum result, which cannot be acted upon without severe financial hardship. Particularly as the majority of those voting were not aware of the implications of that decision, or that the campaign promises were fictional or that the campaign leaders had no plan.

As it stands, the lead campaign has not accepted a winning result, having already decided to back down and avoid any immediate action that would lead to us leaving the EU.

So, is THIS what you want: http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpans...

Just hit translate as this is popping up everywhere. There are threads here too.

Tell us this is what the remainers wanted, A European Superstate!

We made the right choice, thank fk we elected to get out of that masterplan.

[Tycho]

jshell said:

So, is THIS what you want: http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpans...

Just hit translate as this is popping up everywhere. There are threads here too.

Tell us this is what the remainers wanted, A European Superstate!

We made the right choice, thank fk we elected to get out of that masterplan.

Exactly what I voted out for.

If there was another referendum would they specify a minimum turnout? If so then all the out voters need to do is not turn up and it can't be binding surely.

[fooby]

It's almost too mind boggling to imagine an EU superstate. Definitely can't see it ever happening, but I wonder if such an idea would lead to a more peaceful world. Sounds a bit too "Hunger Games" for me personally, but certainly sounds better than a divided Europe. Just look at parts of the world where the tiniest disagreement leads to war between neighbouring countries. Wasn't the point of the EU to prevent such things being so common?

At the same time, we need some nationalism and pride. It's human nature, we like to belong to our own smaller groups. Maybe we wouldn't have needed Brexit if we didn't feel so alienised by the EU.

Edited by fooby on Wednesday 29th June 14:34

[mattmurdock]

jshell said:

So, is THIS what you want: http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpans...

Just hit translate as this is popping up everywhere. There are threads here too.

Tell us this is what the remainers wanted, A European Superstate!

We made the right choice, thank fk we elected to get out of that masterplan.

We wouldn't have been party to any of that anyway, as we had opt-outs on pretty much all of the items covered by that strategy paper. Remaining in the EU would not have committed us to any of it.

[Tycho]

mattmurdock said:

jshell said:

So, is THIS what you want: http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpans...

Just hit translate as this is popping up everywhere. There are threads here too.

Tell us this is what the remainers wanted, A European Superstate!

We made the right choice, thank fk we elected to get out of that masterplan.

We wouldn't have been party to any of that anyway, as we had opt-outs on pretty much all of the items covered by that strategy paper. Remaining in the EU would not have committed us to any of it.

This may be the case but we wouldn't have been helping things by going constantly against those who were in the project 100%. You can't be in a relationship where everyone has a fundamentally different goal. At some point the pressure of going all in or going out would surface in order to let those who want total unity to go forward with it.

[marshalla]

Tycho said:

This may be the case but we wouldn't have been helping things by going constantly against those who were in the project 100%. You can't be in a relationship where everyone has a fundamentally different goal. At some point the pressure of going all in or going out would surface in order to let those who want total unity to go forward with it.

Resulting in us slowly, but gracefully, performing a "flexit" without any panic, hysteria, lies, propaganda or internal warfare...

[Jimbeaux]

Tycho said:

mattmurdock said:

jshell said:

So, is THIS what you want: http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpans...

Just hit translate as this is popping up everywhere. There are threads here too.

Tell us this is what the remainers wanted, A European Superstate!

We made the right choice, thank fk we elected to get out of that masterplan.

We wouldn't have been party to any of that anyway, as we had opt-outs on pretty much all of the items covered by that strategy paper. Remaining in the EU would not have committed us to any of it.

This may be the case but we wouldn't have been helping things by going constantly against those who were in the project 100%. You can't be in a relationship where everyone has a fundamentally different goal. At some point the pressure of going all in or going out would surface in order to let those who want total unity to go forward with it.

Good analysis sir.

[anonymous-user]

marshalla said:

Tycho said:

This may be the case but we wouldn't have been helping things by going constantly against those who were in the project 100%. You can't be in a relationship where everyone has a fundamentally different goal. At some point the pressure of going all in or going out would surface in order to let those who want total unity to go forward with it.

Resulting in us slowly, but gracefully, performing a "flexit" without any panic, hysteria, lies, propaganda or internal warfare...

Possibly, and that would be better than what we've got now. But, given the behaviour of everyone, here and in Europe, over the last weeks and months, I doubt they are capable of doing anything without any panic, hysteria, lies, propaganda or internal warfare. especially the last three.

[dandarez]

I'm sure many Remainians watched Farage being heckled in the EU and Farage's response. Did you see the guy with the stupid hairstyle parted in the middle throwing Nazi insults at Farage?

This nasty piece of work makes Farage look like a saint: Guy Verhofstadt is the former Belgian PM.

Flemish voters got pissed off with him and kicked him out. He then got a job in the EU and has not looked back since. Well, Gravy trains... would you get off one?

He is THE instigator of wanting a European Union Super State - it's been his dream since 2006, he even wrote a f. ste book on it - 76 crap pages and called 'THE UNITED STATES OF EUROPE'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNMi8wI-enM

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://t3.g...

Another reason I voted to LEAVE.
REMAIN... you support people like this, probably without even knowing!

Edited by dandarez on Wednesday 29th June 15:09

[sidicks]

Elysium said:

The leave campaign would not have accepted a narrow win for remain. Farage would have continued to act as an MEP without any intention of fulfilling the requirements of that role.

Why should anyone have to accept a referendum result, which cannot be acted upon without severe financial hardship.

It's called democracy, I'm surprised you've never heard of it.

Elysium said:

Particularly as the majority of those voting were not aware of the implications of that decision, or that the campaign promises were fictional or that the campaign leaders had no plan.

Ignorant nonsense.

Elysium said:

As it stands, the lead campaign has not accepted a winning result, having already decided to back down and avoid any immediate action that would lead to us leaving the EU.

More nonsense, they are just taking a rational approach to the situation and not rushing in.

Edited by sidicks on Wednesday 29th June 15:15

[peterz3]

I might be one of the old fats on here but I can remember things before the EU for me life was good food and goods from all the old commonwealth countries jobs you could walk into some immigration from old countries(bus conductors) the start of the EU was just barrier free trading and that was it, quite good but the it went down hill when things got more and more integrated, I know we can't go back to the good old days, but as there has been a vote and according to our rules first past the post wins and that's it no amount of whining and shouting should change that ,if it does them our entire political system is at risk
peterz3

[Elysium]

jshell said:

So, is THIS what you want: http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpans...

Just hit translate as this is popping up everywhere. There are threads here too.

Tell us this is what the remainers wanted, A European Superstate!

We made the right choice, thank fk we elected to get out of that masterplan.

Zero chance in hell of that happening. No political leader is going to be able to commit their country to being subsumed within a European Superstate.

It would spark civil war.

[PRTVR]

Elysium said:

jshell said:

So, is THIS what you want: http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpans...

Just hit translate as this is popping up everywhere. There are threads here too.

Tell us this is what the remainers wanted, A European Superstate!

We made the right choice, thank fk we elected to get out of that masterplan.

Zero chance in hell of that happening. No political leader is going to be able to commit their country to being subsumed within a European Superstate.

It would spark civil war.

The way they work is in little steps, so you hardly notice it, just look what the common market has become, did you vote for any of the changes? no of cause you didn't, the wording of the changes were such as to not reqire it, there is no reason the progress towards total integration will not continue if you look what has happened in the past its obvious it will.

[jjlynn27]

Discussed on another thread. Read Reuters article and there is a link to the original document. It wasn't leaked, document was never a secret. But if you put 'conspiracy, exclusive, latest leak' you'll get more coverage. It's 309k document with good parts on Reuters, even Bloomberg, if you want slightly more sensationalist text.

It's actually funny to watch collective cognitive bias in action, on both sides. (don't exclude myself from this either).

[wc98]

SPS said:

Jimbeaux said:

Tycho said:

fooby said:

Tycho said:

Nice attitude. Obviously you don't care about self determination and democracy.

51.9% majority and pretty much every promise broken within the day? Yeah okay then. If there was another referendum today, we would remain. No doubt about it.

fooby said:

I really hope the UK comes royally crashing down between now and October.

Even if I voted remain, I care about this country more than my own interests and would never throw the toys out of the pram like you have. Sometimes you have to just accept what you think to be a st state of affairs and get on with it.

Well said sir!

Well fooby - with individuals like you around we really don't need the Farages of this world now do we.
What a totally inane thing to say

indeed. beyond my comprehension ,probably not surprising to fooby as i am a thick bigoted leave voter.

[Robertj21a]

Elysium said:

Zero chance in hell of that happening. No political leader is going to be able to commit their country to being subsumed within a European Superstate.

It would spark civil war.

Which is, of course, just your own personal view. Others may differ - just like a referendum.

[Elysium]

PRTVR said:

The way they work is in little steps, so you hardly notice it, just look what the common market has become, did you vote for any of the changes? no of cause you didn't, the wording of the changes were such as to not reqire it, there is no reason the progress towards total integration will not continue if you look what has happened in the past its obvious it will.

No I didn't vote for any changes, but I was supposed to vote to send my elected representatives their to do so on my behalf. Like most of the UK I didn't bother.

As a nation we have not seriously engaged with European elections and we pay almost no attention to the antics of our 72 MEPs. It's interesting to look at the groups they sit in:

http://www.itsyourparliament.eu/countries/24.html

We aren't exactly trying to gain power and instead have sent a bunch of euro-sceptics, including UKIP and the BNP.