Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result

[ttdan]

Elysium said:

PRTVR said:

The way they work is in little steps, so you hardly notice it, just look what the common market has become, did you vote for any of the changes? no of cause you didn't, the wording of the changes were such as to not reqire it, there is no reason the progress towards total integration will not continue if you look what has happened in the past its obvious it will.

No I didn't vote for any changes, but I was supposed to vote to send my elected representatives their to do so on my behalf. Like most of the UK I didn't bother.

As a nation we have not seriously engaged with European elections and we pay almost no attention to the antics of our 72 MEPs. It's interesting to look at the groups they sit in:

http://www.itsyourparliament.eu/countries/24.html

We aren't exactly trying to gain power and instead have sent a bunch of euro-sceptics, including UKIP and the BNP.

Indeed. Negligence on our part. If we had taken it serously we could have steered it massively in the right direction.

[Dr Jekyll]

Elysium said:

As a nation we have not seriously engaged with European elections and we pay almost no attention to the antics of our 72 MEPs. It's interesting to look at the groups they sit in:

But what's the point of engaging? They don't have any power and spend all their time in typical coalition horse trading or bizarre procedural manoeuvring.

At least with my Westminster MP I can find out what he's voted for or asked questions about. The last time I tried to check what my MEPs were doing the report said something like 'a coalition of Euro MPs has failed in their attempt to block a move aimed at preventing the commission from abandoning a plan to reject the proposal'.

[Elysium]

Dr Jekyll said:

But what's the point of engaging? They don't have any power and spend all their time in typical coalition horse trading or bizarre procedural manoeuvring.

At least with my Westminster MP I can find out what he's voted for or asked questions about. The last time I tried to check what my MEPs were doing the report said something like 'a coalition of Euro MPs has failed in their attempt to block a move aimed at preventing the commission from abandoning a plan to reject the proposal'.

I think we would have more power if we sent people that actually cared about and believed in the work they do. As it stands, half of our MEP's are essentially there to screw things up because they don't support the EU.

Farage has been an MEP for 17 years. I can't begin to contemplate the sort of person who would spend half of his career attempting to ruin his employer.

Edited by Elysium on Wednesday 29th June 23:04

[m3jappa]

Elysium said:

I think we would have more power if we sent people that actually cared about and believed in the work they do. As it stands, half of our MEP's are essentially there to screw things up because they don't support the EU.

Farage has been an MEP for 17 years. I can't begin to contemplate the sort of person who would spend half of his career attempting to ruin his employer.

Edited by Elysium on Wednesday 29th June 23:04

At the same time you have to question why our mep's don't support it, these are people (apart from Nigel) who are (supposed) to be there regularly so I'd hope they know a lot more about it all than the rest of us.

[Dr Jekyll]

Elysium said:

Farage has been an MEP for 17 years. I can't begin to contemplate the sort of person who would spend half of his career attempting to ruin his employer.

Think of it like an oncologist trying to find a cure for cancer.

[lostkiwi]

Dr Jekyll said:

Elysium said:

Farage has been an MEP for 17 years. I can't begin to contemplate the sort of person who would spend half of his career attempting to ruin his employer.

Think of it like an oncologist trying to find a cure for cancer.

Or given he's an MEP getting rid of the EU maybe a turkey voting for Christmas.

[mdavids]

Tycho said:

Nice attitude. Obviously you don't care about self determination and democracy.

I keep hearing people banging on about democracy in action. Can anyone tell me how to vote out Dacre and Murdoch? They seem to be the one's in control.

[Dr Jekyll]

mdavids said:

I keep hearing people banging on about democracy in action. Can anyone tell me how to vote out Dacre and Murdoch? They seem to be the one's in control.

Don't buy their papers.

Incidentally when it comes to current affairs most people rely on broadcast media particularly the BBC, not on the Sun or the Daily Mail. And the BBC scarcely even attempts balance on the subject of the EU.

[Derek Smith]

mdavids said:

I keep hearing people banging on about democracy in action. Can anyone tell me how to vote out Dacre and Murdoch? They seem to be the one's in control.

Indeed. The fourth estate seems to dictate policy. Blair is mates with the biggest media mogul in the country, even blessing his baby, and some suggested the mother as well. Cameron is buddies with one of Murdoch's minions, even spending Xmas with her, whilst she was in control of a business that was breaking the law. Although, of course, it should be emphasised that she was such a poor manager that she had no idea what was going on. None at all. I want to make that clear. When she was about to be tried for the crimes that she knew nothing about, Cameron came out in her defence. I wonder who told him to do that.

Little me, Jimmy Murdoch, gives a speech at the McTaggart lectures and everything he demanded comes to pass.

Gove, May, Osbourne and even Johnson have meals with the great man. He is the most frequent visitor to #10 after Cameron gets elected and there is no scandal.

The fourth estate used to keep the politicians in check. Now they don't there is no purpose for them.



The most dangerous man in the country, and he has undermined democracy more than the EU ever did.

[Elysium]

lostkiwi said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Elysium said:

Farage has been an MEP for 17 years. I can't begin to contemplate the sort of person who would spend half of his career attempting to ruin his employer.

Think of it like an oncologist trying to find a cure for cancer.

Or given he's an MEP getting rid of the EU maybe a turkey voting for Christmas.

That's what has happened in Sunderland and Wales where people did not seem to understand where the money for all the new shiny buildings had come from.

Farage is more akin to an oncologist who gets paid to sit around on his backside complaining that things were better in the old days whilst everyone else tries to fight cancer.

[anonymous-user]

Elysium said:

jshell said:

So, is THIS what you want: http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpans...

Just hit translate as this is popping up everywhere. There are threads here too.

Tell us this is what the remainers wanted, A European Superstate!

We made the right choice, thank fk we elected to get out of that masterplan.

Zero chance in hell of that happening. No political leader is going to be able to commit their country to being subsumed within a European Superstate.

It would spark civil war.

Then why is so much effort being made to plan it?

[anonymous-user]

fooby said:

It's almost too mind boggling to imagine an EU superstate. Definitely can't see it ever happening, but I wonder if such an idea would lead to a more peaceful world. Sounds a bit too "Hunger Games" for me personally, but certainly sounds better than a divided Europe. Just look at parts of the world where the tiniest disagreement leads to war between neighbouring countries. Wasn't the point of the EU to prevent such things being so common?

At the same time, we need some nationalism and pride. It's human nature, we like to belong to our own smaller groups. Maybe we wouldn't have needed Brexit if we didn't feel so alienised by the EU.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 29th June 14:34

How do you rationalise "we need some nationalism and pride" with your wish to see the UK come "crashing down" before October?

[jshell]

lostkiwi said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Elysium said:

Farage has been an MEP for 17 years. I can't begin to contemplate the sort of person who would spend half of his career attempting to ruin his employer.

Think of it like an oncologist trying to find a cure for cancer.

Or given he's an MEP getting rid of the EU maybe a turkey voting for Christmas.

Eh? He once said in a speech that he is trying to work himself out of a job! He's open about it and looks forward to it. A forward thinking turkey, who knows or plans his own demise. Can't fault him for that.

[Derek Smith]

Some legal bod from Trinity College in Dublin reckons there are a number of methods for exit:

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/article-5...

Can't see it myself, but legally there is no problem.

[Mrr T]

REALIST123 said:

Elysium said:

jshell said:

So, is THIS what you want: http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpans...

Just hit translate as this is popping up everywhere. There are threads here too.

Tell us this is what the remainers wanted, A European Superstate!

We made the right choice, thank fk we elected to get out of that masterplan.

Zero chance in hell of that happening. No political leader is going to be able to commit their country to being subsumed within a European Superstate.

It would spark civil war.

Then why is so much effort being made to plan it?

What time and effort?

I assume you, like the poster, did not read the document he linked to.

If you do you will find little you could disagree with.

[don4l]

Derek Smith said:

Some legal bod from Trinity College in Dublin reckons there are a number of methods for exit:

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/article-5...

Can't see it myself, but legally there is no problem.

I read the second sentence of that article and realised that it was written by a deluded idiot.

He seems to think that the Court of Justice of the EU has a role in the current situation.

Unbelievable!

Technically, the CJE still has some authority. It wouldn't dare try to exercise it at this point.

It will be fascinating to see how the British courts behave over the coming months. Judges interpret the technicalities of the law, and so they will continue to act subservient to Europe. However, Europe will not feel strong enough to exercise the power that she still has.

[Mario149]

don4l said:

I read the second sentence of that article and realised that it was written by a deluded idiot.

"Eoin O’Dell is a Fellow and Associate Professor at the School of Law, Trinity College"

I'm not saying you're wrong, but he seems to speak with some authority. Are you in the law profession? Not asking to be confrontational, just genuinely curious as to whether you're commenting as a layman or as someone with more experience.

[Efbe]

jshell said:

lostkiwi said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Elysium said:

Farage has been an MEP for 17 years. I can't begin to contemplate the sort of person who would spend half of his career attempting to ruin his employer.

Think of it like an oncologist trying to find a cure for cancer.

Or given he's an MEP getting rid of the EU maybe a turkey voting for Christmas.

Eh? He once said in a speech that he is trying to work himself out of a job! He's open about it and looks forward to it. A forward thinking turkey, who knows or plans his own demise. Can't fault him for that.

Farage has spent his career trying to get us out of the EU.

The only change we have now of getting out of the EU is if we can find a way to remain in the common market, but restrict the freedom of movement.

Because of Farage's awesome work of making the rest of the EU hate us, we now have a situation in which we are hated and have no chance of making a deal in our favour.

Farage has fked this up royally for us. Ironic, and st also.

[Zod]

don4l said:

I read the second sentence of that article and realised that it was written by a deluded idiot.

He seems to think that the Court of Justice of the EU has a role in the current situation.

Unbelievable!

Technically, the CJE still has some authority. It wouldn't dare try to exercise it at this point.

It will be fascinating to see how the British courts behave over the coming months. Judges interpret the technicalities of the law, and so they will continue to act subservient to Europe. However, Europe will not feel strong enough to exercise the power that she still has.

English law still includes EU law, so the English courts will apply it on the same basis as they have since 1973. In many areas, whichever exit route is chosen, the current EU laws and regulations are likely to be adopted wholly or after adaptation into English law, either because they make sense or because there is simply too much work to do in too little time to replace them.

[sidicks]

Efbe said:

Farage has spent his career trying to get us out of the EU.

The only change we have now of getting out of the EU is if we can find a way to remain in the common market, but restrict the freedom of movement.

Because of Farage's awesome work of making the rest of the EU hate us, we now have a situation in which we are hated and have no chance of making a deal in our favour.

Farage has fked this up royally for us. Ironic, and st also.

We already had a poor deal within the EU, following Brexit we should be able to negotiate a deal which will be mutually advantageous to both sides.