Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result
Discussion
FiF said:
Completely agree with that, I think. The EU is becoming increasingly irrelevant or late to the party on regulation. Business is often ahead of the EU in implementing global regs, Pete North raises the example of container weighing regs, which aren't in place by EU and USA, but carriers refuse to indemnify if the new regulations aren't followed. It makes more sense to have those seats and have greater and earlier influence.
A lot of the EU's work on regs appears to be copying ISO stuff onto different headed paper these days.SilverSixer said:
Yes, yes of course, that's the way to approach a situation where as near as dammit half the people are unimpressed with the situation, a situation which has no easy path forward despite your simplistic ramblings. Those of us who are pro-EU have spent decades accepting part membership of the EU for Britain, in the form of the various vetos and opt outs and accession of new member questions, on the basis of accommodating as far as possible the views of those who didn't wish to be in it at all, and now the boot is on the other foot it has to be all one way, tough titty, everything you wish must inevitably come to pass.
Well I'm sorry, no. Your side are going to have to put up with dissent and demands from the other near-half of the population and you will have to "get over" the fact that some things you don't like may well have to remain as part of exit agreements, or that we may well be asked again in one form or another.
You know what? I think I'd be quite happy with a Norway-style situation now. Why? because that really would be a lip-service, name only exit form the EU. We'd still be contributing financially, we'd still be trading freely, we'd still be able to move freely. In both directions. We'd still have to live with EU regulations and protections which I find valuable. I think it would be the epitome of a pyrrhic victory for many Leavers. It would be pointless, but hey, if Leave means Leave then great, you've got your Leave. Then perhaps we truly will be able to get on with things pretty much as they are without the dire and dark consequences on so many levels of a hard exit. Would you be happy with that? After all, it'd mean we've left. That's the only thing that matters, right? How did Homer Simpson put it? Let the baby have its bottle.
Trouble is, I don't see it as a plausible outcome. Which is a shame in some ways. We're going hard or going home so far as I can tell.
Interesting option.Well I'm sorry, no. Your side are going to have to put up with dissent and demands from the other near-half of the population and you will have to "get over" the fact that some things you don't like may well have to remain as part of exit agreements, or that we may well be asked again in one form or another.
You know what? I think I'd be quite happy with a Norway-style situation now. Why? because that really would be a lip-service, name only exit form the EU. We'd still be contributing financially, we'd still be trading freely, we'd still be able to move freely. In both directions. We'd still have to live with EU regulations and protections which I find valuable. I think it would be the epitome of a pyrrhic victory for many Leavers. It would be pointless, but hey, if Leave means Leave then great, you've got your Leave. Then perhaps we truly will be able to get on with things pretty much as they are without the dire and dark consequences on so many levels of a hard exit. Would you be happy with that? After all, it'd mean we've left. That's the only thing that matters, right? How did Homer Simpson put it? Let the baby have its bottle.
Trouble is, I don't see it as a plausible outcome. Which is a shame in some ways. We're going hard or going home so far as I can tell.
The "go for norway to p
s off the rabid hardcore xenophobes" option.Its worse than staying in the EU, but seeing Farages face drop at the continuation of FMOL would be almost compensation
Its still "leave", thats all that was on the ballot paper.
SilverSixer said:
Why? because that really would be a lip-service, name only exit form the EU. We'd still be contributing financially, we'd still be trading freely, we'd still be able to move freely. In both directions. We'd still have to live with EU regulations and protections which I find valuable. I think it would be the epitome of a pyrrhic victory for many Leavers. It would be pointless, but hey, if Leave means Leave then great, you've got your Leave. Then perhaps we truly will be able to get on with things pretty much as they are without the dire and dark consequences on so many levels of a hard exit. Would you be happy with that? After all, it'd mean we've left. That's the only thing that matters, right? How did Homer Simpson put it? Let the baby have its bottle.
Sorry, but I can't agree with this. There is a massive difference between EU and EFTA membership. This argument of yours was put about during the campaign and debunked quite frequently (if you want to see something amusing on the subject see Andrew Neil tearing Matt Hancock apart who put forward an argument identical to yours).Non-EU membership means exiting the whole political EU project. It means staying involved with the trading block part which is what the UK always fundamentally wanted to be part of.
It allows the UK to reach trading arrangements with non-EU areas and allows significant influence on the single market which really doesn't amount to any less than we have now. It allows us to opt out of some parts of the single market, maybe fishing, as Norway does. Budget contributions are about 50% of what a like-for-like EU member pays.
Properly negotiated and adapted for aspects of the UK's position it could finally bring a settled relationship for the UK with Europe.
///ajd said:
Interesting option.
The "go for norway to ps off the rabid hardcore xenophobes" option.
Its worse than staying in the EU, but seeing Farages face drop at the continuation of FMOL would be almost compensation
Its still "leave", thats all that was on the ballot paper.
Brexit means Brexit The "go for norway to p
s off the rabid hardcore xenophobes" option.Its worse than staying in the EU, but seeing Farages face drop at the continuation of FMOL would be almost compensation
Its still "leave", thats all that was on the ballot paper.
bmw535i said:
///ajd said:
Interesting option.
The "go for norway to ps off the rabid hardcore xenophobes" option.
Its worse than staying in the EU, but seeing Farages face drop at the continuation of FMOL would be almost compensation
Its still "leave", thats all that was on the ballot paper.
Brexit means Brexit The "go for norway to p
s off the rabid hardcore xenophobes" option.Its worse than staying in the EU, but seeing Farages face drop at the continuation of FMOL would be almost compensation
Its still "leave", thats all that was on the ballot paper.
confused_buyer said:
SilverSixer said:
Why? because that really would be a lip-service, name only exit form the EU. We'd still be contributing financially, we'd still be trading freely, we'd still be able to move freely. In both directions. We'd still have to live with EU regulations and protections which I find valuable. I think it would be the epitome of a pyrrhic victory for many Leavers. It would be pointless, but hey, if Leave means Leave then great, you've got your Leave. Then perhaps we truly will be able to get on with things pretty much as they are without the dire and dark consequences on so many levels of a hard exit. Would you be happy with that? After all, it'd mean we've left. That's the only thing that matters, right? How did Homer Simpson put it? Let the baby have its bottle.
Sorry, but I can't agree with this. There is a massive difference between EU and EFTA membership. This argument of yours was put about during the campaign and debunked quite frequently (if you want to see something amusing on the subject see Andrew Neil tearing Matt Hancock apart who put forward an argument identical to yours).Non-EU membership means exiting the whole political EU project. It means staying involved with the trading block part which is what the UK always fundamentally wanted to be part of.
It allows the UK to reach trading arrangements with non-EU areas and allows significant influence on the single market which really doesn't amount to any less than we have now. It allows us to opt out of some parts of the single market, maybe fishing, as Norway does. Budget contributions are about 50% of what a like-for-like EU member pays.
Properly negotiated and adapted for aspects of the UK's position it could finally bring a settled relationship for the UK with Europe.
Of course there will be some Leavers who are disappointed, but the point is that there will be stability, business likes stability. It gets us out and in control of many things which matter and allows time for things to continue without disruption while we gradually work out so many complicated things to disentangle ourselves from 40 years of entanglement with the EU to a point with which we are happy. Of course it's a sub optimal position but one many on all sides will find acceptable. The extremes on both sides won't. Tough.
AC43 said:
bmw535i said:
///ajd said:
Interesting option.
The "go for norway to ps off the rabid hardcore xenophobes" option.
Its worse than staying in the EU, but seeing Farages face drop at the continuation of FMOL would be almost compensation
Its still "leave", thats all that was on the ballot paper.
Brexit means Brexit The "go for norway to p
s off the rabid hardcore xenophobes" option.Its worse than staying in the EU, but seeing Farages face drop at the continuation of FMOL would be almost compensation
Its still "leave", thats all that was on the ballot paper.
Funkycoldribena said:
AC43 said:
bmw535i said:
///ajd said:
Interesting option.
The "go for norway to ps off the rabid hardcore xenophobes" option.
Its worse than staying in the EU, but seeing Farages face drop at the continuation of FMOL would be almost compensation
Its still "leave", thats all that was on the ballot paper.
Brexit means Brexit The "go for norway to p
s off the rabid hardcore xenophobes" option.Its worse than staying in the EU, but seeing Farages face drop at the continuation of FMOL would be almost compensation
Its still "leave", thats all that was on the ballot paper.
I think by just repeating his stupid views on the racism angle every couple of pages will achieve something other than attract scorn. It won't of course, but as a staunch remainer he's so arrogant and full of self confidence that others views just aren't important and can be dismissed. As we know this character trait already lost them the referendum. It has also resulted in a thread which is highly entertaining and amusing. The thread could continue for a couple of years yet. Even when A50 is triggered, they (remainers) will still be saying: "well we can still u-turn if we want to and all other member states let us". We (leavers) will laugh, show them evidence that won't happen, we'll be called racist thickos etc. Rinse and repeat.
It's all irrelevant. Brexit means Brexit and we're out.
bmw535i said:
Indeed. Ajd has already said he's going to keep campaigning. He refused to say say for what, but he's going to campaign anyway. I think by just repeating his stupid views on the racism angle every couple of pages will achieve something other than attract scorn. It won't of course, but as a staunch remainer he's so arrogant and full of self confidence that others views just aren't important and can be dismissed. As we know this character trait already lost them the referendum. It has also resulted in a thread which is highly entertaining and amusing.
The thread could continue for a couple of years yet. Even when A50 is triggered, they (remainers) will still be saying: "well we can still u-turn if we want to and all other member states let us". We (leavers) will laugh, show them evidence that won't happen, we'll be called racist thickos etc. Rinse and repeat.
It's all irrelevant. Brexit means Brexit and we're out.
To be frank you are hardly one to complain of others being intolerant of opposing views, and the final paragraph of the above post illustrates it perfectly. Those opposing leaving, which represent a significant proportion of the population, are perfectly entitled to voice that opinion forever and a day if they wish. It's called freedom of speech. I think by just repeating his stupid views on the racism angle every couple of pages will achieve something other than attract scorn. It won't of course, but as a staunch remainer he's so arrogant and full of self confidence that others views just aren't important and can be dismissed. As we know this character trait already lost them the referendum. It has also resulted in a thread which is highly entertaining and amusing. The thread could continue for a couple of years yet. Even when A50 is triggered, they (remainers) will still be saying: "well we can still u-turn if we want to and all other member states let us". We (leavers) will laugh, show them evidence that won't happen, we'll be called racist thickos etc. Rinse and repeat.
It's all irrelevant. Brexit means Brexit and we're out.
Furthermore, it would be naïve and foolish for anyone to claim that Brexiters as a whole do not contain some xenophobes. Exactly which way do you think National Front members will have voted?
PurpleMoonlight said:
To be frank you are hardly one to complain of others being intolerant of opposing views, and the final paragraph of the above post illustrates it perfectly. Those opposing leaving, which represent a significant proportion of the population, are perfectly entitled to voice that opinion forever and a day if they wish. It's called freedom of speech.
Furthermore, it would be naïve and foolish for anyone to claim that Brexiters as a whole do not contain some xenophobes. Exactly which way do you think National Front members will have voted?
Have a look at my final sentence again Furthermore, it would be naïve and foolish for anyone to claim that Brexiters as a whole do not contain some xenophobes. Exactly which way do you think National Front members will have voted?
craigjm said:
That word just makes me want to roll my eyes. Whoever first came up with mashing two words together like that, clearly must have been celebrity gossip type stuff, needs to be shot 
This thread has also birthed the followingBremainers
Unbrelievable
Brexiters
There's a few others that I can't recall. Ajd is your specialist in this area
cookie118 said:
bmw535i said:
Have a look at my final sentence again
Brexit means brexit has to be one of the most idiotic sayings ever.It is, in fact, one of the simplest sayings ever.
If you think about it, we don't even need to bother with Article 50. We could just leave. We could simply stop sending £250M a week. After all, what could they do?
bmw535i said:
Indeed. Ajd has already said he's going to keep campaigning.
If posting on here is the extent of his campaigning he may as well save his fingers because he is wasting his time.Tim Farron says he is going to keep campaigning too by the by, no one gives a crap about him either.
FN2TypeR said:
If posting on here is the extent of his campaigning he may as well save his fingers because he is wasting his time.
Tim Farron says he is going to keep campaigning too by the by, no one gives a crap about him either.
Any respect I had for the Lib Dems left when they decided they would oppose the results of the referendum rather than try and get the best deal.Tim Farron says he is going to keep campaigning too by the by, no one gives a crap about him either.
Bunch of Hypocrites, they too had that they would have a referendum in their last manifesto but as it went the way they didn't like they're going to oppose it.
don4l said:
cookie118 said:
bmw535i said:
Have a look at my final sentence again
Brexit means brexit has to be one of the most idiotic sayings ever.It is, in fact, one of the simplest sayings ever.
If you think about it, we don't even need to bother with Article 50. We could just leave. We could simply stop sending £250M a week. After all, what could they do?
Yes, we could just repudiate our treaties. I wonder how that would look to the US, Australia, Canada and all the other countries with which we're looking to negotiate FTAs.
Nobody does business with people who breach their contracts.
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