Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result

Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result

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Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

104 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
correct, as per No EU Army...No more EU Federal integration etc etc

People do not like being lied to or deceived by back room dealings.

I agree, do it by the book.

CaptainSlow

13,179 posts

211 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
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Zod said:
Nobody does business with people who breach their contracts.
Why is it a contract breach? Do explain.

Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

104 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
Because the leave procedure is via Art50 ?

CaptainSlow

13,179 posts

211 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
Why is invoking Art50 a breach?

Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

104 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
really ??

Art50 is the agreed way to leave.

FN2TypeR

7,091 posts

92 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
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It isn't, but repealing the European Communities Act and just walking away as a method of exit would be.

CaptainSlow

13,179 posts

211 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
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Quite, I think we just have another Remainer talking out their backside.

don4l

10,058 posts

175 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
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Zod said:
Nobody does business with people who breach their contracts.
My customers buy stuff because they want the stuff.

Treaty obligations don't figure in their purchasing decisions.

Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

104 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
don4l said:
My customers buy stuff because they want the stuff.

Treaty obligations don't figure in their purchasing decisions.
Terms & Conditions do, unless you sell Burgers

SilverSixer

8,202 posts

150 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
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FiF said:
confused_buyer said:
SilverSixer said:
Why? because that really would be a lip-service, name only exit form the EU. We'd still be contributing financially, we'd still be trading freely, we'd still be able to move freely. In both directions. We'd still have to live with EU regulations and protections which I find valuable. I think it would be the epitome of a pyrrhic victory for many Leavers. It would be pointless, but hey, if Leave means Leave then great, you've got your Leave. Then perhaps we truly will be able to get on with things pretty much as they are without the dire and dark consequences on so many levels of a hard exit. Would you be happy with that? After all, it'd mean we've left. That's the only thing that matters, right? How did Homer Simpson put it? Let the baby have its bottle.
Sorry, but I can't agree with this. There is a massive difference between EU and EFTA membership. This argument of yours was put about during the campaign and debunked quite frequently (if you want to see something amusing on the subject see Andrew Neil tearing Matt Hancock apart who put forward an argument identical to yours).

Non-EU membership means exiting the whole political EU project. It means staying involved with the trading block part which is what the UK always fundamentally wanted to be part of.

It allows the UK to reach trading arrangements with non-EU areas and allows significant influence on the single market which really doesn't amount to any less than we have now. It allows us to opt out of some parts of the single market, maybe fishing, as Norway does. Budget contributions are about 50% of what a like-for-like EU member pays.

Properly negotiated and adapted for aspects of the UK's position it could finally bring a settled relationship for the UK with Europe.
Precisely, his argument is just another iteration / variation of the sneering theme we saw before the vote that EEA / EFTA isn't proper Brexit, iirc the usual suspect (s) called it Brexit lite. As usual it's a case of not understanding, or possibly deliberately ignoring, details which matter to many.

Of course there will be some Leavers who are disappointed, but the point is that there will be stability, business likes stability. It gets us out and in control of many things which matter and allows time for things to continue without disruption while we gradually work out so many complicated things to disentangle ourselves from 40 years of entanglement with the EU to a point with which we are happy. Of course it's a sub optimal position but one many on all sides will find acceptable. The extremes on both sides won't. Tough.
The trouble is, I can't see the EU being happy with and agreeing such an outcome for fear of other countries taking leave of their senses and trying the same gambit. It's not going to happen. We're going hard, or going home.

It's a shame, but that's one of the reasons why I voted remain - I couldn't see the UK ending up in a position more beneficial to it then EU membership. EU membership is a great deal - and I think people on the leave side forgot that it is just that, a deal, whereby there is some measure of give and take for a mutually beneficial outcome. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see it playing out well for us now if we do leave.

I'd accept the EEA/EFTA option now, it would be an acceptable compromise inside the UK I think, given that we are pretty much split down the middle we do have to find some kind of resolution with ourselves, but I can't see it happening.

It's a shame the referendum was run at all, but as we had one it's a shame it wasn't one with 4 options and rounds of voting, with an option being eliminated each round until, say, a 60% win was achieved for a final option to go for. i.e. hard remain, soft 'remain' (Cameron deal), EEA/EFTA exit, hard exit.

However, if the next say we get on things is the GE 2020, I'll be voting LibDem, unless Labour have a European epiphany and change their tune from one of simply going along with the Tory right.

Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

104 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
SilverSixer said:
However, if the next say we get on things is the GE 2020, I'll be voting LibDem, unless Labour have a European epiphany and change their tune from one of simply going along with the Tory right.
IF the EU is still in existence

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-...

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
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Remainers, where do you see yourselves on this? I suspect most of you are still on the downward slope, it'll pass in time.

don4l

10,058 posts

175 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
Stickyfinger said:
don4l said:
My customers buy stuff because they want the stuff.

Treaty obligations don't figure in their purchasing decisions.
Terms & Conditions do, unless you sell Burgers
And...?

My terms and conditions have sod all to do with any treaty.

In fact, the terms and conditions are largely irrelevant. I provide goods and services, and the customer provides money.

When you go to the supermarket, do you read their terms and conditions? Of course not.

Likewise, my customers do not read my terms and conditions, and I don't read their's.

We all know the deal.


CaptainSlow

13,179 posts

211 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
don4l said:
Likewise, my customers do not read my terms and conditions, and I don't read their's.

We all know the deal.
You obviously don't.

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
don4l said:
And...?

My terms and conditions have sod all to do with any treaty.

In fact, the terms and conditions are largely irrelevant. I provide goods and services, and the customer provides money.

When you go to the supermarket, do you read their terms and conditions? Of course not.

Likewise, my customers do not read my terms and conditions, and I don't read their's.

We all know the deal.
What do you do if you provide a service and your customer then refuses to pay you?

don4l

10,058 posts

175 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
WinstonWolf said:


Remainers, where do you see yourselves on this? I suspect most of you are still on the downward slope, it'll pass in time.
They all appear to be still in the "Denial" stage.

I was hoping that they would stay there. It is great fun watching from the sidelines.


don4l

10,058 posts

175 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
don4l said:
And...?

My terms and conditions have sod all to do with any treaty.

In fact, the terms and conditions are largely irrelevant. I provide goods and services, and the customer provides money.

When you go to the supermarket, do you read their terms and conditions? Of course not.

Likewise, my customers do not read my terms and conditions, and I don't read their's.

We all know the deal.
What do you do if you provide a service and your customer then refuses to pay you?
I sue them.

It has only happened three times since 1992.

Twice, I had given credit because I knew them personally. They were a huge disappointment. I never got the money from these two.

The other one appeared to be a very large company who I assumed were financially solid. I now do proper credit checks on everybody.

CaptainSlow

13,179 posts

211 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
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What happens if payment isn't due?

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
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[quote=SilverSixer
However, if the next say we get on things is the GE 2020, I'll be voting LibDem, unless Labour have a European epiphany and change their tune from one of simply going along with the Tory right.
[/quote]

i have always voted conservative & May is my MP.
But the LibDems are the only party I agree with regarding Europe & will be getting my vote next time.
I believe they will have a resurgence as will gain votes from all parties & will be back in a position of influence.

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
don4l said:
I sue them.

It has only happened three times since 1992.
And you don't think the EU would do the same to the UK if we just stopped contributing and ignored A50?
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