Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result

[dandarez]

Jimboka said:

andymadmak said:

Jimboka said:

andymadmak said:

Michael Howard saying some interesting stuff about Brexit (hard/soft etc) on R4 this morning:
https://twitter.com/BBCr4today?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoo...

The same Michael Howard who said that the EU would be eating out of our hands within a month of the Brexit advisory vote ? He's a clown of the highest order

Source?

Many out there. Here's a taster

''If we vote to Leave
Former Tory leader Michael Howard is the most credible Leave figure to have raised the prospect of a second referendum.
He claimed by Britain voting to leave the EU, it could “shake EU leaders out of their complacency” and offer the UK better terms to stay.''

Uh?
Just try and read that back to yourself. It's nonsensical. If you cut and paste 'stuff', read it before posting.

Anyway, where on earth does it say that the EU would be eating out of our hands within a month of the Brexit advisory vote?

Clown of the highest order?

Mirror?

Edited by dandarez on Wednesday 28th September 11:26

[don'tbesilly]

andymadmak said:

Jimboka said:

andymadmak said:

Jimboka said:

andymadmak said:

Michael Howard saying some interesting stuff about Brexit (hard/soft etc) on R4 this morning:
https://twitter.com/BBCr4today?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoo...

The same Michael Howard who said that the EU would be eating out of our hands within a month of the Brexit advisory vote ? He's a clown of the highest order

Source?

Many out there. Here's a taster

''If we vote to Leave
Former Tory leader Michael Howard is the most credible Leave figure to have raised the prospect of a second referendum.
He claimed by Britain voting to leave the EU, it could “shake EU leaders out of their complacency” and offer the UK better terms to stay.''

Do you mean like Mr Sarkozy is talking about in the news just this very week?

Either way, if you listen to the interview Nick Robinson does challenge Howard on this very point, and Howard basically replies "I said it could happen, not that it would happen". He was of course correct, and it may be that if Mr Sarkozy wins in France he will eventually be doubly correct!

I think Sarkozy and Howard are chatting on 'Whatsapp'

Howard has in the past mentioned a second referendum based on what Sarkozy has suggested, the EU coming to it's senses (fat chance!).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-r...

[Europa1]

don'tbesilly said:

I think Sarkozy and Howard are chatting on 'Whatsapp'

Howard has in the past mentioned a second referendum based on what Sarkozy has suggested, the EU coming to it's senses (fat chance!).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-r...

Given the complacent arrogance demonstrated by the likes of Jean-Claude Juncker and Martin Schulz, I'd say the chances aren't just fat, they are morbidly obese.

Edited by Europa1 on Wednesday 28th September 13:01

[anonymous-user]

dandarez said:

Jimboka said:

andymadmak said:

Jimboka said:

andymadmak said:

Michael Howard saying some interesting stuff about Brexit (hard/soft etc) on R4 this morning:
https://twitter.com/BBCr4today?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoo...

The same Michael Howard who said that the EU would be eating out of our hands within a month of the Brexit advisory vote ? He's a clown of the highest order

Source?

Many out there. Here's a taster

''If we vote to Leave
Former Tory leader Michael Howard is the most credible Leave figure to have raised the prospect of a second referendum.
He claimed by Britain voting to leave the EU, it could “shake EU leaders out of their complacency” and offer the UK better terms to stay.''

Uh?
Just try and read that back to yourself. It's nonsensical. If you cut and paste 'stuff', read it before posting.

Anyway, where on earth does it say that the EU would be eating out of our hands within a month of the Brexit advisory vote?

Clown of the highest order?

Mirror?

Edited by dandarez on Wednesday 28th September 11:26

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35670906

He spoke nonsense then. So why listen to him now.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 28th September 11:49

[schmunk]

Jockman said:

I wonder if this had been a Referendum to JOIN the EU, what would the outcome have been?

Would the Younger Generation be complaining about others taking the country into a European Union and how they would lose their British identity and require counselling for years to come?

Errrr, no...

[AC43]

schmunk said:

Jockman said:

I wonder if this had been a Referendum to JOIN the EU, what would the outcome have been?

Would the Younger Generation be complaining about others taking the country into a European Union and how they would lose their British identity and require counselling for years to come?

Errrr, no...

No, they'd be looking forward to the breaking down of borders and the opening up of opportunities.

You know, positive things......

[WinstonWolf]

AC43 said:

schmunk said:

Jockman said:

I wonder if this had been a Referendum to JOIN the EU, what would the outcome have been?

Would the Younger Generation be complaining about others taking the country into a European Union and how they would lose their British identity and require counselling for years to come?

Errrr, no...

No, they'd be looking forward to the breaking down of borders and the opening up of opportunities.

You know, positive things......

They had a vote and couldn't be arsed to use it.

[Stickyfinger]

WinstonWolf said:

AC43 said:

schmunk said:

Jockman said:

I wonder if this had been a Referendum to JOIN the EU, what would the outcome have been?

Would the Younger Generation be complaining about others taking the country into a European Union and how they would lose their British identity and require counselling for years to come?

Errrr, no...

No, they'd be looking forward to the breaking down of borders and the opening up of opportunities.

You know, positive things......Like CoD

They had a vote and couldn't be arsed to use it.

[don'tbesilly]

AC43 said:

schmunk said:

Jockman said:

I wonder if this had been a Referendum to JOIN the EU, what would the outcome have been?

Would the Younger Generation be complaining about others taking the country into a European Union and how they would lose their British identity and require counselling for years to come?

Errrr, no...

No, they'd be looking forward to the breaking down of borders and the opening up of opportunities.

You know, positive things......

The EU have already got the broken (open) borders with Schengen, that's just working out spendidly!

[anonymous-user]

andymadmak said:

I suppose the reality is that each of us speaks for ourselves plus the comparatively few people we know well enough to be able to represent accurately.

I agree with that.

andymadmak said:

The Remain argument that "we don't know what Brexit means, and thus some people who voted for Brexit may well get something that they did not want or vote for once the negotiations are completed, or indeed that the consequences of their vote may have become so clear by that time as to make them want to change their minds" appears logical until you replace the word Brexit with Remain and see that the logic remains the same (and just as valid/not valid)

It is, and remains, logical and valid whether or not you replace the word "Brexit" with "Remain".

Should circumstances have changed materially following a "Remain" vote, the option to have another referendum would always be there. That seems to be where the two alternative lines of thinking part company.

[AC43]

don'tbesilly said:

AC43 said:

schmunk said:

Jockman said:

I wonder if this had been a Referendum to JOIN the EU, what would the outcome have been?

Would the Younger Generation be complaining about others taking the country into a European Union and how they would lose their British identity and require counselling for years to come?

Errrr, no...

No, they'd be looking forward to the breaking down of borders and the opening up of opportunities.

You know, positive things......

The EU have already got the broken (open) borders with Schengen, that's just working out spendidly!

I don't know anyone where I live and work for whom this is major negative issue. In fact quite the opposite. Seems to work just fine here economically and culturally.

But I accept not everyone sees it the same way.

[Stickyfinger]

AC43 said:

I don't know anyone where I live and work

Just to clear questions on that, where is it you live and work ?

[AC43]

Stickyfinger said:

Just to clear questions on that, where is it you live and work ?

I live in London and work for a software company that, amongst other things, supplies risk analytics software to financial services companies and to regulatory authorities.

My neighbours, friends and colleagues are from all over the place. 75% of the people I mix with didn't start life here. It's just part of life.

[Sway]

craigjm said:

I know that but how do you persuade 28 countries to pay into a club to do deals with 1 country that is not paying in?

Taking Britain out, there are 27 other members of 'the club'. The majority of those members aren't paying in to be a member with benefits, they're being paid to be a member with 'benefits'...

[amgmcqueen]

AC43 said:

schmunk said:

Jockman said:

I wonder if this had been a Referendum to JOIN the EU, what would the outcome have been?

Would the Younger Generation be complaining about others taking the country into a European Union and how they would lose their British identity and require counselling for years to come?

Errrr, no...

No, they'd be looking forward to the breaking down of borders and the opening up of opportunities.

You know, positive things......

Why does leaving the EU stop opportunities from opening up?

[don'tbesilly]

Greg66 said:

andymadmak said:

I suppose the reality is that each of us speaks for ourselves plus the comparatively few people we know well enough to be able to represent accurately.

I agree with that.

andymadmak said:

The Remain argument that "we don't know what Brexit means, and thus some people who voted for Brexit may well get something that they did not want or vote for once the negotiations are completed, or indeed that the consequences of their vote may have become so clear by that time as to make them want to change their minds" appears logical until you replace the word Brexit with Remain and see that the logic remains the same (and just as valid/not valid)

It is, and remains, logical and valid whether or not you replace the word "Brexit" with "Remain".

Should circumstances have changed materially following a "Remain" vote, the option to have another referendum would always be there. That seems to be where the two alternative lines of thinking part company.

I'm far from convinced that had we remained in the EU the UK would have ever had the opportunity to have another referendum on leaving the EU, ever.

After all *Cameron* stated in the weeks prior to the referendum it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote either 'in' or 'out', and regardless of the result there wouldn't be another chance.

Based on reports I've read the EU will stamp out referendums in the long term, and voting to remain would have given the EU impetus to drive through many of there other 'beneficial' changes to being a member, the 'group hug' being one of them.

We now know where the EU stands on veto's, our alleged veto on the EU army is being laughed at despite the UK still being a full member with a veto.

Trusting the EU would be like trusting *Cameron*, he turned out to be the bigger quitter despite his promises.
The EU would stitch up the UK at the first opportunity, and if Corbyn got into power he'd roll over whilst Juncker wiped his feet on his Fair isle cardigan

We can of course rejoin the EU

[B'stard Child]

Sway said:

craigjm said:

I know that but how do you persuade 28 countries to pay into a club to do deals with 1 country that is not paying in?

Taking Britain out, there are 27 other members of 'the club'. The majority of those members aren't paying in to be a member with benefits, they're being paid to be a member with less 'benefits'...

EFA - well provided we leave and don't pay as much for the "priviledge" of being an associate member of the club ponzi scheme

[AC43]

amgmcqueen said:

AC43 said:

schmunk said:

Jockman said:

I wonder if this had been a Referendum to JOIN the EU, what would the outcome have been?

Would the Younger Generation be complaining about others taking the country into a European Union and how they would lose their British identity and require counselling for years to come?

Errrr, no...

No, they'd be looking forward to the breaking down of borders and the opening up of opportunities.

You know, positive things......

Why does leaving the EU stop opportunities from opening up?

Well one of the main planks of the leave campaign was the ending of EU FMOL because it seems to enrage many people in the UK. Hard Brexiters like Johnson, Fox and Davis keep banging on about it. Whist the EU are insisting that it must be kept in order for Britain to remain in the single market.

Meanwhile London has quietly become France's sixth biggest city on the back of this.

They're all working and paying taxes in the UK not in France. All 72,000 of them.

If you want to show the rest of Europe how great the UK can be it's a great example.

[craigjm]

B'stard Child said:

Sway said:

craigjm said:

I know that but how do you persuade 28 countries to pay into a club to do deals with 1 country that is not paying in?

Taking Britain out, there are 27 other members of 'the club'. The majority of those members aren't paying in to be a member with benefits, they're being paid to be a member with less 'benefits'...

EFA - well provided we leave and don't pay as much for the "priviledge" of being an associate member of the club ponzi scheme

Are they? where can we find accurate figures on how much each country pays in per capita? this was the whole issue for me with the referendum on both sides. There were no clear figures and it was all smoke a mirrors. There should have been an independently appointed body to release all of the statistics good and bad for people to make an informed choice. Because that wasn't there people voted with their gut feel. If it has been made available leave may have won with a bigger majority or remain might have won, who knows, but it would have been a result based on facts.

[anonymous-user]

don'tbesilly said:

Greg66 said:

andymadmak said:

I suppose the reality is that each of us speaks for ourselves plus the comparatively few people we know well enough to be able to represent accurately.

I agree with that.

andymadmak said:

The Remain argument that "we don't know what Brexit means, and thus some people who voted for Brexit may well get something that they did not want or vote for once the negotiations are completed, or indeed that the consequences of their vote may have become so clear by that time as to make them want to change their minds" appears logical until you replace the word Brexit with Remain and see that the logic remains the same (and just as valid/not valid)

It is, and remains, logical and valid whether or not you replace the word "Brexit" with "Remain".

Should circumstances have changed materially following a "Remain" vote, the option to have another referendum would always be there. That seems to be where the two alternative lines of thinking part company.

I'm far from convinced that had we remained in the EU the UK would have ever had the opportunity to have another referendum on leaving the EU, ever.

After all *Cameron* stated in the weeks prior to the referendum it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote either 'in' or 'out', and regardless of the result there wouldn't be another chance.

Based on reports I've read the EU will stamp out referendums in the long term, and voting to remain would have given the EU impetus to drive through many of there other 'beneficial' changes to being a member, the 'group hug' being one of them.

Obviously you're entitled to those views, but they strike me as having the character of a doomsaying/Project Fear/bedwetting-skewed perspective - albeit from a different starting point - that Remainers are often said to have.

don'tbesilly said:

Trusting the EU would be like trusting *Cameron*

The EU would stitch up the UK at the first opportunity

Our negotiations with them once A50 has been triggered are sure to go well then. They'll give us a great deal, sure as.